Can You Have Salvation Without Repentance?

[BNR32FAN]

What is interesting how those verses are not talking about sins but actually works people were doing.

But you used them to judge your friends and their sins.

Ones who believe in repenting as part of receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Remind me of the sadducees and pharisees who used The Old Testament Law to craft their own rules.

Kind of like now, using The New Testament verses to craft their own salvation's.

The Texas Driver’s handbook says a person can get their driver’s license at the age of 16. It also says they must reside in the state of Texas and pass a driver’s education course. The logic behind your theology would suggest that a person should be able to walk in and say I’m 16 years old give me my driver’s license because right here it says I can have one when I’m 16 years old and the clerk will say yeah but it also says you have to meet the other requirements as well. You completely ignore the other requirements for salvation.

And you never answered my question pertaining to John 15. In John 15 Jesus says several times that we must abide in Him to be saved. So if a person believes then later turns away from Christ will he still receive eternal life?

 

[d taylor]

The Texas Driver’s handbook says a person can get their driver’s license at the age of 16. It also says they must reside in the state of Texas and pass a driver’s education course. The logic behind your theology would suggest that a person should be able to walk in and say I’m 16 years old give me my driver’s license because right here it says I can have one when I’m 16 years old and the clerk will say yeah but it also says you have to meet the other requirements as well. You completely ignore the other requirements for salvation.

And you never answered my question pertaining to John 15. In John 15 Jesus says several times that we must abide in Him to be saved. So if a person believes then later turns away from Christ will he still receive eternal life?

John 15 is addressing believers bearing fruit, what is the big deal. I guess you have found some way to make this into a repentance issue.

Believing in a person losing salvation, is in keeping with a person who also believes in a repentance salvation nothing new there.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

 

[d taylor]

So was everyone who ever lived on this planet with only One exception.

What i said went right over your head.

 

[d taylor]

The message didn’t stop at verse 21.

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-27‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Notice the word “Therefore” highlighted in verse 24. This is an indication that He is expounding on what He is talking about. The “will” of God means something God desires. Yes God desires us to believe, He also desires us to obey Christ’s words.

It also did not start at verse 21, Jesus is addressing false prophets, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. So i guess you consider your friends false prophets.

 

[d taylor]

You completely ignored verses 24-28, verse 24 beginning with the word THEREFORE. So about the person who used Christ as an excuse to sin, and in that context the situation that I observed was my friend was going to a strip club to get drunk and watch naked women dance around when another friend said “hey man that’s a sin”. The other friend’s reply was mocking Jesus’ sacrifice when he said “it’s ok Jesus died for my sins bro, all I have to do is believe and I’m saved”. None of us were Christians at the time. Going out and getting drunk at bars, clubs, and strip clubs was a weekly ritual for us so I can say with certainty that none of us were saved at that time because none of us were believers or followers of Christ just like the people in Matthew 7:21-28 we never knew Him.

The problem with your theology is it doesn’t line up with all scripture just bits and pieces of it.

Jesus died for the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers. Believers and unbelievers are judge for their works, show me where a believer is judged for their sins at The judgment seat of The Messiah.

At the great white throne not a single sin is mention, these unbelievers are judge for their works. Then the book of life is opened up to see if their name is in the book. When they are not found to be in the book of life, they are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[d taylor]

_
Beautiful words from God to sinners, what is the promise. That all who thrust in The Messiah receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.​

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[Brightfame52]

Can You Have Salvation Without Repentance?

Yes from a eternal and legal perspective, but no from a Spiritual perspective.

 

[enoob57]

Can You Have Salvation Without Repentance?

Yes from a eternal and legal perspective, but no from a Spiritual perspective.

The only eternal Essence 'IS' Spirit

John 4:24 (KJV)
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

thus this statement of yours does not qualify as truth...

 

[Brightfame52]

Can You Have Salvation Without Repentance?

The only eternal Essence 'IS' Spirit

John 4:24 (KJV)
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

thus this statement of yours does not qualify as truth...

Im not talking about essence, but the eternal and legal salvation of the elect.

 

[enoob57]

Im not talking about essence, but the eternal and legal salvation of the elect.

Where there is not sin there is no law... as eternity past there was no sin thus no law...
Romans 4:15 (KJV)
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

 

[Brightfame52]

Where there is not sin there is no law... as eternity past there was no sin thus no law...
Romans 4:15 (KJV)
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Do you understand the scripture teaches a eternal realm and legal realm of Salvation ?

 

[enoob57]

Do you understand the scripture teaches a eternal realm and legal realm of Salvation ?

I understand where there is no sin there is no law... to say legal before sin (as your eternity suggest) cannot exist!

 

[Brightfame52]

I understand where there is no sin there is no law... to say legal before sin (as your eternity suggest) cannot exist!

I see no evidence that you understand what Im talking about.

 

[enoob57]

I see no evidence that you understand what Im talking about.

I think it's quite the contrary... you claim an eternal legal and The Bible teaches where there is no sin there is no law... The Scripture is clear about this there is an eternal past (before creation) and an eternal future (new heavens and earth) where sin is non-existent even in thought... thus where there is no sin there exist no legislation!

 

[Brightfame52]

I think it's quite the contrary... you claim an eternal legal and The Bible teaches where there is no sin there is no law... The Scripture is clear about this there is an eternal past (before creation) and an eternal future (new heavens and earth) where sin is non-existent even in thought... thus where there is no sin there exist no legislation!

Again I see no evidence that you understand what Im talking about.

 

[Buzzard3]

Believing in a person losing salvation, is in keeping with a person who also believes in a repentance salvation nothing new there.

In the following passage, Paul warns believers that salvation requires repentance:

"Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I WARN YOU, AS I WARNED YOU BEFORE, that those who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." (Gal 5:19-21)

Only a fool would ignore such a warning.

 

[enoob57]

In the following passage, Paul warns believers that salvation requires repentance:

"Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I WARN YOU, AS I WARNED YOU BEFORE, that those who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." (Gal 5:19-21)

Only a fool would ignore such a warning.

Clearly it is written
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
with all the scholarship in the Catholic church you would think as to salvation a works based idea is against what God says in His Word... it is simple because we are vessels with begin and we should be careful with what we contain in ourselves...
Romans 9:22 (KJV)
[22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Thus the idea is simply what God is not keeping purge yourselves of them an keep only that which you know God is keeping... for the journey in s/Spirit is not focused on the things that pass away...

 

[Buzzard3]

Clearly it is written
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
with all the scholarship in the Catholic church you would think as to salvation a works based idea is against what God says in His Word... it is simple because we are vessels with begin and we should be careful with what we contain in ourselves...
Romans 9:22 (KJV)
[22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Thus the idea is simply what God is not keeping purge yourselves of them an keep only that which you know God is keeping... for the journey in s/Spirit is not focused on the things that pass away...

So how do you explain Paul's warning of eternal death due to sin in Galatians 5?

"Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I WARN YOU, AS I WARNED YOU BEFORE, that those who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." (Gal 5:19-21)

 

[timothyu]

Again, simply the difference between the world of man and the Kingdom. One serves self, the other serves all.