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How are you saved?

fhansen

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The interesting thing to me here is that up until 5 centuries or so ago no one in the Christian world believed that only by believing in Jesus is one saved-at least not without some very real and important qualifications. Sola Fide was a foreign position that became the new norm for many even as the doctrine can still be understood somewhat differently by those who hold to it. But originally the faith meant that now we have entered fellowship and alignment with God, as we were created to be, and this union constitutes the basis of human justice/righteousness and this union comes into being by faith, a faith which is formally and publicly professed by the "sacrament of faith": Baptism. This has been the way of the church in both the east and west since the beginning.

Only in this union can man be who he was created to be, which means, for one, that he can finally overcome the sin that separates him from God. Jesus gave us that possibility; He reconciled the world to God. We don't even know the God whom we must believe in, apart from Jesus who is God in the flesh. But with God now indwelling, we're His- and He can do a work in us, a work we must cooperate in because only as we desire to remain in Him (John 15)-as we continue to will to do so- is His work accomplished in us. But, if we persist in grave and grievous sin instead, some of which are listed in Scripture as sin that will keep us from entering heaven, we’ve already turned away from fellowship with Him; we’re not remaining in Him regardless of any talk to the contrary.

At that point, “But, I believed”, won’t much matter. Our faith, hope, and, most importantly, our love are confirmed and completed in how we live. The idea that ‘we can’t be perfect anyway so now, as believers, we don’t need to be’ doesn’t cut it; that’s not the new covenant. The new covenant isn’t a reprieve from our obligation to be righteous, rather it’s the very means to true righteousness for man. Jesus exhorted us to be perfect, He takes away the sins of those who’re truly repentant. The Catholic Church, and I believe this would be true for the Eastern Orthodox as well, teaches that absolute perfection (who God created us to be) will ultimately be attained in us, in those who persevere, but it’s not demanded or even expected in this life. We must simply be on the journey towards it, overcoming sin in the overall scheme of things, doing good with the help of grace as we continue to take God seriously, living by the Spirit. Otherwise no degree of imperfection, of sin, no matter how heinous or opposed to love of God and neighbor, could ever separate us from Him-and that would be absurd. So the CC for its part, as a guideline, distinguishes between sin that leads to death (mortal sin) and lesser sins. Persistence in mortal sin attacks and destroys love in us, and love is the true hallmark of any righteousness, of God’s life, in man.

“And so He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 6-9

“Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.“ 1 John 3:4-9

Because of this faith-established union we’re now justified; we’re cleansed, our sins are forgiven and there’s nothing that separates us from God. But He doesn’t just leave us as a cleanly swept house but also gives us the grace, the power, to continue to be clean, and to even grow in that holiness. He gives us His own righteousness, His own life, and that is most fully described by the virtue of love, and we’re to follow Him now in that life of love against which there can be no condemnation.
 
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renniks

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Recently I learned about the Catholic meaning of born again - being baptized. There seems to be verses in the Bible that agree with this. I studied it a little bit more, and - correct me if I’m wrong - it seems like Catholics also think that there are certain sins that you can’t commit or else you don’t go to heaven? I’ve only ever heard that you have to believe in Jesus, and then you are saved, and I never thought that anyone could think differently. Now I understand that people DO think differently, so I was wondering- according to your denomination, what must you do to be saved? What Bible verses back up your viewpoint? I’m specifically asking because I have younger siblings that my parents won’t let get baptized until they act more like Christians. Would they make it into Heaven?
Baptism doesn't save anyone. It's by grace through faith. Period.
 
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concretecamper

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It's by grace through fairh Period.
exactly, but not through some work I perform (like making a confession of faith). It is freely given, unmerited, through Baptism.
 
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Petros2015

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At that point, “But, I believed”, won’t much matter. Our faith, hope, and, most importantly, our love are confirmed and completed in how we live.

Big AMEN.
 
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Danthemailman

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Baptism is a work. How is having faith a work?
Amen! Through faith we are trusting in “Another’s work” (Christ’s finished work of redemption) - Romans 3:24-28.
 
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concretecamper

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Baptism is a work
no it is not. It is God bestowing super natural grace upon us through no merit of our own. So a baby can perform a work? That's a strange idea
 
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concretecamper

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Amen! Through faith we are trusting in “Another’s work” (Christ’s finished work of redemption) - Romans 3:24-28.
so, you believe the first act of your salvation is from you. That is a strange idea for sure.

The truth is, the first act of our salvation is by God. It is unmerited.
 
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Petros2015

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It is God bestowing super natural grace upon us through no merit of our own. So a baby can perform a work? That's a strange idea

True, but someone has to have faith somewhere...
(and it's not the baby's faith obviously)
Otherwise no one brings the baby in to be baptized
And there's no one to baptize it
 
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Danthemailman

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so, you believe the first act of your salvation is from you. That is a strange idea for sure.

The truth is, the first act of our salvation is by God. It is unmerited.
Did God personally water baptize you or did your priest? Water baptism is an act of obedience which “follows” salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)
 
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concretecamper

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Did God personally water baptize you or did your priest? Water baptism is an act of obedience which “follows” salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)
we are always to be obedient to Jesus.
 
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Danthemailman

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True, but someone has to have faith somewhere...
(and it's not the baby's faith obviously)
Otherwise no one brings the baby in to be baptized
And there's no one to baptize it
A baby is incapable of repentance and faith so they are unqualified to receive water baptism.
 
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Michie

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True, but someone has to have faith somewhere...
(and it's not the baby's faith obviously)
Otherwise no one brings the baby in to be baptized
And there's no one to baptize it
I’ve always think these verses in Acts 16 when discussion comes up concerning baptism and salvation.

32 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. 34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.
 
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Michie

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A baby is incapable of repentance and faith so they are unqualified to receive water baptism.

I always tie in the covenant God made with his people when asking they all get circumcised from infant on up with baptism. Infants were not allowed to make that decision for themselves either.
 
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concretecamper

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A baby is incapable of repentance and faith so they are unqualified to receive water baptism.
thank you for your opinion which by the way goes against over 2,000 years of Christian teaching.
 
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Michie

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Colossians 2:11-12

11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
 
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Petros2015

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