How Many Evenings are in a Day?

[guevaraj]

Now if you consider John 19:31, it only proves one thing and that is that the crucifixion occured before a High Sabbath, and I can identify three candidates, yet people choose the first one which is clearly eliminated by the gospels.

Brother, happy Sabbath! The word of God tells us next: Jesus is our "Passover" lamb. The High Sabbath after His death guarantees that it was the first Passover and not the second chance a month later, with no High Sabbath afterwards.

Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7b-8 NLT)​

The only conclusion I can see is that a year passed between the capture of Jesus after the Last Supper and His death as our Passover lamb. It is clear that He was captured that same night after the Last Supper below.

Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” Then Jesus answered, “Will you really lay down your life for me? Very truly I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times! (John 13:37-38 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Filippus]

Was the author of the Didascalia present at the Council of Jerusalem or not?

No that is not the point, we're you or I?
But it shows historical evidence of the capture trail and crucifiction occurring over the Feasts of Unleavened Bread, which makes me excited because the current church narrative doesn't fit or support scripture.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Again the scriptures that I have pointed out locks in certain dates, which cannot be move and therefore the rest of the narrative must submit to it, not the other way around.

Most interpretation start at the end and work backwards, defining and placing the crucifixion first, the primary scripture being John 19:31.

Then all the odd ball scriptures are bent and twisted to make it fit.

With the scriptures placing Jesus at the Passover table being ignored or simply reinterpretated to support their narrative.
Now if I wanted to explain Ex12:6, all I need to reference is the three Gospels which explains it really well, yet people argue against it because then they had to change their view. And most people believe they have the interpretation correct, so it boils down to are they looking for answers or to further support their narrative.

Now if you consider John 19:31, it only proves one thing and that is that the crucifixion occured before a High Sabbath, and I can identify three candidates, yet people choose the first one which is clearly eliminated by the gospels.

Again it boils down to their motive.

Shalom

My motive is to find answers. The truth of the matter won't be achieved by tossing out "odd ball scriptures." We need to examine all of scripture, without any preconceived notions.

Let's back up; and I'll pose this as a question. Is it possible that as there were at least three different calendars in use at the time of Yahshua's execution; that multiple calendars might be spoken of in scripture?

Shabbat shalom

 

[HARK!]

No that is not the point, we're you or I?
But it shows historical evidence of the capture trail and crucifiction occurring over the Feasts of Unleavened Bread, which makes me excited because the current church narrative doesn't fit or support scripture.

Shalom

This is in fact my point. If it makes the claim that it was written by a witness of the Council of Jerusalem, ~300 years ex post facto; then it can't be trusted as a reliable source.

 

[HARK!]

The only conclusion I can see is that a year passed between the capture of Jesus after the Last Supper and His death as our Passover lamb. It is clear that He was captured that same night after the Last Supper below.

Which leaves me with the question: If it was the the Passover meal; what was he doing wandering around in the middle of the night?

(CLV) Ex 12:22
Then you will take a bunch of hyssop, and you will dip it in the blood which is in the basin, and you will touch the lintel and the two jambs with the blood which is in the basin. As for you, not one of you shall go forth from the portal of his house until the morning.

Where was Judas going to buy anything for the Passover meal on the night of Passover? Did the Goyim keep their 7-11s open? lol.

No, but really, these are serious questions.

 

[Filippus]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The word of God tells us next: Jesus is our "Passover" lamb. The High Sabbath after His death guarantees that it was the first Passover and not the second chance a month later, with no High Sabbath afterwards.

Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7b-8 NLT)​

The only conclusion I can see is that a year passed between the capture of Jesus after the Last Supper and His death as our Passover lamb. It is clear that He was captured that same night after the Last Supper below.

Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” Then Jesus answered, “Will you really lay down your life for me? Very truly I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times! (John 13:37-38 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I am not proposing the Passover Sheni, the capture took place on the 15th after midnight in the morning hours after Jesus prayer time, which places His capture +-3 am. That day was still the 15th, meaning a Annual Sabbath. Jesus died within that week and resurrection occurred to completely fulfill the Passover, Unleavened Bread and FirstFruit in one week.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

This is in fact my point. If it makes the claim that it was written by a witness of the Council of Jerusalem, ~300 years ex post facto; then it can't be trusted as a reliable source.

What it means is that during that period of time, they also understood that the capture trail and crucifixion occured over multiple days, and therefore isn't a new idea.

 

[HARK!]

What it means is that during that period of time, they also understood that the capture trail and crucifixion occured over multiple days, and therefore isn't a new idea.

There were a lot of narratives of questionable credibility being presented 300 years after the fact. I prefer to work with scripture.

 

[Filippus]

Which leaves me with the question: If it was the the Passover meal; what was he doing wandering around in the middle of the night?

(CLV) Ex 12:22
Then you will take a bunch of hyssop, and you will dip it in the blood which is in the basin, and you will touch the lintel and the two jambs with the blood which is in the basin. As for you, not one of you shall go forth from the portal of his house until the morning.

Where was Judas going to buy anything for the Passover meal on the night of Passover? Did the Goyim keep their 7-11s open? lol.

No, but really, these are serious questions.

Moses and his brother appeared before Pharoah that night, did they break the law?

No I don't think so, because the whole Israel left at night.

Deut 16:1 You are to observe the month of Aviv and prepare a passover to Yahweh your Elohim, for in the month of Aviv Yahweh your Elohim brought you forth from Egypt by night.

So trying to argue it wasn't a Passover yet the three Gospels in the clearest language tells us it was.

It would be better to accept scripture that places Jesus at the Passover table, it is in three Gospels, than to try and dismisse these Scriptures due to apparent conflicts.

These conflict should rather be studied and addressed, because it doesn't nullify the Gospel accounts.

Again the focus is the wrong way round.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Is it possible that as there were at least three different calendars in use at the time of Yahshua's execution; that multiple calendars might be spoken of in scripture?

Shabbat shalom

This argument is simply used to nullify the Gospels, and leave the door open on a narrative that is rejected by scripture.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Moses and his brother appeared before Pharoah that night, did they break the law?

No I don't think so, because the whole Israel left at night.

I'm not aware of those verses.

Deut 16:1 You are to observe the month of Aviv and prepare a passover to Yahweh your Elohim, for in the month of Aviv Yahweh your Elohim brought you forth from Egypt by night.

Does this mean spiritually, physically, or both. I'll have to look into this. How do you reconcile this with the verse that I presented?

So trying to argue it wasn't a Passover yet the three Gospels in the clearest language tells us it was.

It would be better to accept scripture that places Jesus at the Passover table, it is in three Gospels, than to try and dismisse these Scriptures due to apparent conflicts.

These conflict should rather be studied and addressed, because it doesn't nullify the Gospel accounts.

Again the focus is the wrong way round.

Shalom

Is leavened bread eaten at the Passover meal? If not why was the Greek word "artos" used?

My focus is objectivity. I am studying and addressing any supposed conflict. Again, I suspect that it's possible that two different calendars might be referenced in the Gospels. Have you dismissed that possibility? If so, what evidence do you have that this can not be the case?

 

[HARK!]

This argument is simply used to nullify the Gospels, and leave the door open on a narrative that is rejected by scripture.

How does the fact that multiple calendars were in use at the time of Yahshua's execution, in any way nullify the Gospels?

 

[guevaraj]

what was he doing wandering around in the middle of the night?

Brother, Happy Sabbath! To my surprise, a rooster can crow at any time. The only person who went out during the night was Judas. We can assume Jesus and His disciples stayed inside the house until morning. This gives us a precise break that must have passed in John's narrative of one year. After the rooster in verse 27 and before Pilate in verse 28 below.

Again Peter denied it, and at that moment a rooster began to crow.
(... a year must have passed between the previous event and the next event ...)
Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. (John 18:27-28 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Filippus]

There were a lot of narratives of questionable credibility being presented 300 years after the fact. I prefer to work with scripture.

Well building the narrative using Scripture, the only eyewitness account. Starting at the beginning of the festival working your way through, places Jesus alive and well on the 15th. Then reading John 19:31 and relevant text places His death during the Feast of unleavened bread and how it was fulfilled. Looking at His resurrection on the Sunday, the fulfillment of Firstfruits claimed by 1 Cor 15.

Now we find a document from the 3rd century confirming this and you argue its not to be trusted?

Common HARK

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Brother, Happy Sabbath! To my surprise, a rooster can crow at any time. The only person who went out during the night was Judas. We can assume Jesus and His disciples stayed inside the house until morning. This gives us a precise break that must have passed in John's narrative of one year. After the rooster in verse 27 and before Pilate in verse 28 below.

Again Peter denied it, and at that moment a rooster began to crow.
(... a year must have passed between the previous event and the next event ...)
Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. (John 18:27-28 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I had already presented this verse in this thread. Did you read the post that I responded to? How do you reconcile the two?

 

[Filippus]

How does the fact that multiple calendars were in use at the time of Yahshua's execution, in any way nullify the Gospels?

I haven't seen any evidence to prove that Jesus used any other calendar than the one in Jerusalem at the Temple.

Now having the Enoch calendar at Cumran doesn't mean it was used in the Temple or by Messiah.

And to be honest if you have to go to that level to prove your narrative, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Just my view.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Well building the narrative using Scripture, the only eyewitness account. Starting at the beginning of the festival working your way through, places Jesus alive and well on the 15th. Then reading John 19:31 and relevant text places His death during the Feast of unleavened bread and hoo it was fulfilled. Looking at His resurrection on the Sunday, the fulfillment of Firstfruits claimed by 1 Cor 15.

I thought that we went over this already.

(CLV) Jn 19:14
Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"

Now we find a document from the 3rd century confirming this and you argue its not to be trusted?

The Wikipedia article claimed that it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Can you refute the evidence that I provided?

 

[HARK!]

I haven't seen any evidence to prove that Jesus used any other calendar than the one in Jerusalem at the Temple.

Now having the Enoch calendar at Cumran doesn't mean it was used in the Temple or by Messiah.

And to be honest if you have to go to that level to prove your narrative, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Just my view.

Shalom

The Zadok Priesthood were charged with preserving and teaching scripture. The Book of Enoch is scripture. Yahshua and his disciples quoted it or eluded to it, more than any other book in your Bible..

 

[Filippus]

I'm not aware of those verses.

Then he summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said.
Exodus 12:31 ESV

 

[Filippus]

The Zadok Priesthood were charged with preserving and teaching scripture. The Book of Enoch is scripture. Yahshua and his disciples quoted it or eluded to it, more than any other book in your Bible..

Agree but are you arguing that they weren't working in the Temple during Messiah?