Legitimate Political Discourse? Really?

[disciple Clint]

The explanation was unconvincing -- unless all those "Fifth Amendment"s are part of the scheme.

Since when is use of the Fifth Amendment considered an admission or indication of guilt?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am deeply disturbed by the fact many people tolerate no criticism of Trump or his supporters.

But are you surprised?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Since when is use of the Fifth Amendment considered an admission or indication of guilt?

Since the invocation of the Fifth Amendment is used to avoid incriminating oneself.

I mean, really, that's the sole purpose of taking the Fifth. Did you think they were doing it as a fashion statement?

 

[Tiberius Lee]

Since when is use of the Fifth Amendment considered an admission or indication of guilt?

 

[disciple Clint]

Since the invocation of the Fifth Amendment is used to avoid incriminating oneself.

I mean, really, that's the sole purpose of taking the Fifth. Did you think they were doing it as a fashion statement?

Wrong, The courts have ruled as I indicated go look it up.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wrong, The courts have ruled as I indicated go look it up.

I looked it up. I found that in Hoffman v. United States (1951), SCOTUS ruled that a witness has the Fifth Amendment right to refuse to testify not only when the testimony alone might support a criminal conviction, but also when the witness has a reasonable fear that the testimony might assist the government in building a criminal case against the witness – such as by providing a link in the chain of evidence needed for prosecution.

Now, what would constitute a "reasonable fear"? Well, guilt, for starters.

 

[disciple Clint]

I looked it up. I found that in Hoffman v. United States (1951), SCOTUS ruled that a witness has the Fifth Amendment right to refuse to testify not only when the testimony alone might support a criminal conviction, but also when the witness has a reasonable fear that the testimony might assist the government in building a criminal case against the witness – such as by providing a link in the chain of evidence needed for prosecution.

Now, what would constitute a "reasonable fear"? Well, guilt, for starters.

Keep up the research and you will find where the court ruled that use of the 5th is not to be construed as an admission of guilt.

 

[JSRG]

Keep up the research and you will find where the court ruled that use of the 5th is not to be construed as an admission of guilt.

That's legally speaking. Outside of that, people can wonder, and often reasonably, "hrm... what is it they're refusing to say? Are they hiding something?"

And even in the legal setting, people are going to be thinking that, even if they're not supposed to be. A judge might tell the jury that usage of the fifth amendment can't be construed as any kind of admission of guilt, but jurors are still going to be (to varying degrees) thinking to themselves that the witness is hiding something.

 

[SimplyMe]

Keep up the research and you will find where the court ruled that use of the 5th is not to be construed as an admission of guilt.

Yes, you can't plead the Fifth and have it be used as evidence of guilt in court. It doesn't change the only legal reason you can plead the Fifth is that you will incriminate yourself (provide evidence of guilt) if you testify to the facts.

But let's go to your hero, Donald J. Trump, saying things like, “The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

 

[TLK Valentine]

Keep up the research and you will find where the court ruled that use of the 5th is not to be construed as an admission of guilt.

Not one that can be used in and of itself -- but if someone's trying not to incriminate themselves, I, for one, would be very interested in know what they didn't want to incriminate themselves for... And thanks to them, I'll know where to direct my investigation.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes, you can't plead the Fifth and have it be used as evidence of guilt in court. It doesn't change the only legal reason you can plead the Fifth is that you will incriminate yourself (provide evidence of guilt) if you testify to the facts.

But let's go to your hero, Donald J. Trump, saying things like, “The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

It may tend to incriminate, that is not a statement that it will incriminate, the word "may" is very important.

 

[disciple Clint]

Not one that can be used in and of itself -- but if someone's trying not to incriminate themselves, I, for one, would be very interested in know what they didn't want to incriminate themselves for... And thanks to them, I'll know where to direct my investigation.

Yes and you might track down a traffic violation or some other equally minor law violation that could be revealed by answering the question that was asked and which prompted the invocation of the Fifth. So you can see how meaningless using the 5th can be as far as establishing any guilt.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes and you might track down a traffic violation or some other equally minor law violation that could be revealed by answering the question that was asked and which prompted the invocation of the Fifth. So you can see how meaningless using the 5th can be as far as establishing any guilt.

I can only imagine how pants-soilingly terrified Donald's cronies are of implicating themselves in a traffic violation in front of Congress... do you think the January 6 committee was asking them about where they parked their cars that day?

 

[Mn_of_stl]

Chalk up the 5th amendment as the latest amendment the libs hate. Which one will be next??

 

[TLK Valentine]

Chalk up the 5th amendment as the latest amendment the libs hate. Which one will be next??

Just because we don't answer every question with it doesn't mean we hate it.

 

[disciple Clint]

I can only imagine how pants-soilingly terrified Donald's cronies are of implicating themselves in a traffic violation in front of Congress... do you think the January 6 committee was asking them about where they parked their cars that day?

what I think is that your comment "pants-soilingly terrified Donald's cronies" is flaming and that you do not understand the legal aspects of the 5th.

 

[Mn_of_stl]

Just because we don't answer every question with it doesn't mean we hate it.

you sure do hate when conservatives use it though.

 

[Pommer]

you sure do hate when conservatives use it though.

No, it’s their right to exercise as they see fit.
If they think it’s fit to try to stay out of jail by using that right, good for them!

 

[KCfromNC]

Chalk up the 5th amendment as the latest amendment the libs hate. Which one will be next??

Today I learned that the most recent ex-president was a liberal : Did Trump Say 'If You're Innocent, Why Are You Taking the 5th Amendment?'

 

[Ana the Ist]

The RNC censured Liz Cheney and Kinzinger for participating in a committee to investigate the January 6 insurrection.

Is this "discourse?"

2500 rioters assaulting Capitol police (injuring 138), vandalizing property, occupying the building?
There is no justification for the Capitol attack, and even less for the RNC coverup attempt.

Since the left side of the political aisle doesn't consider damage to property "violence"....which is odd considering that so many of them consider silence to be violent.....I find it telling that they consider this an "insurrection" and not a "99% peaceful protest" with just a handful of bad actors?