THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE" 2

[timothyu]

The conclusion is clearly wrong, or at least way off base.

Yes because a fair share of them are Canadian

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think it will vary with the person and the time and place. For me, I think it came from personal Bible study guided by the Holy Spirit. But I also talked with a guy who came to the same kind of conclusion through Holy Orthodoxy.

And what was it within Orthodoxy that led your friend to come to the same conclusion as you through the scriptures? - Was it scripture through hearing both of which lead to faith (Romans 10:17)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Go read the OP no one has ever said to you that scripture is the only means of communication with God.

I am quoting you...

You said...

"we only know Gods' Word through the scriptures..."

This is entirely wrong and not scriptural.

Please man up to what you are actually saying and don't divert back to the OP.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Go read the OP no one has ever said to you that scripture is the only means of communication with God. There is no problem there at all. How do you know Gods' Word today Carl? - Yep scripture. The scriptures are the avenue that God communicates with man through those who are guided by His Spirit which works through the word of God (scriptures) *John 6:63 in those who believe them. Gods' Spirit is not separate from His Word. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith as they determine what is true and what is not *2 Timothy 3:15-16; 1 John 4:1.

Your response here...

I am quoting you... You said..."we only know Gods' Word through the scriptures..."This is entirely wrong and not scriptural.Please man up to what you are actually saying and don't divert back to the OP.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. How does what you have posted here address anything in the full post you are quoting from? Sadly, your misrepresenting what I have said to you and making arguments no one is arguing about, while not reading what is already written in the OP. Anyone reading the OP will see what your stating is a misrepresentation of what I have said. Please post the context and link to what I have posted next time and read the OP and let's have a discussion on the OP which is "Scripture is the only rule of faith".

Take Care Carl

 

[Leaf473]

Sorry leaf I believe what you posted was indeed a contradiction and not relevant to the posts you are quoting from. You simply avoided answering the questions to you showing why. I never once asked you if Jesus was the scriptures. I asked you if the words of Jesus are recorded in the scriptures. So your example does not fit here.

Take Care.

What I wrote was highly relevant to the post I was quoting from.

Would you like to take it one step at a time?

If so, then let's examine your first question in post 275:

If Gods Word is in the scriptures, how can it not be the Word of God?

Can we reword it this way so that the same terms are used throughout:
If God's word is in the scriptures, how can the scriptures not be God's word?

Would you agree that the above is essentially the same question?

 

[Leaf473]

Yes because a fair share of them are Canadian

Exactly! Because...
The Rocky mountains and the USA are not identical, they are not the same thing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What I wrote was highly relevant to the post I was quoting from. Would you like to take it one step at a time? If so, then let's examine your first question in post 275: Can we reword it this way so that the same terms are used throughout:
If God's word is in the scriptures, how can the scriptures not be God's word? Would you agree that the above is essentially the same question?

Sorry leaf but if I am being honest with you, I do not believe what you posted earlier was relevant to the posts you were quoting from. You simply avoided answering the questions to you showing why. I never once asked you if Jesus was the scriptures or was I comparing Jesus to the scriptures. I asked you if the words of Jesus are recorded in the scriptures. So your example does not fit in the response you provided. I asked you further, if Gods Word is in the scriptures, how can it not be the Word of God? I cannot re-word this any simpler that what was written earlier. I find your posts here simply a distraction that avoids and does not answer any of the questions asked of you so I guess we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

 

[Leaf473]

And what was it within Orthodoxy that led your friend to come to the same conclusion as you through the scriptures? - Was it scripture through hearing both of which lead to faith (Romans 10:17)

Well, the Orthodox community is very focused on the pastor/parishioner relationship. I think he would say it was mostly from being around pastors; that is, shepherds, mentors.

Orthodox church services have a lot of scripture readings*, so he would have been exposed to the scriptures as well.

In real life, the actions of the Holy spirit,
interactions within the body of Christ (the church),
and the scriptures aren't separated from each other imo.


*There's a chance that it may become relevant later in the discussion, so I want to add that Orthodox churches use somewhat different scriptures than what the average Evangelical Church uses.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, the Orthodox community is very focused on the pastor/parishioner relationship. I think he would say it was mostly from being around pastors; that is, shepherds, mentors.

Orthodox church services have a lot of scripture readings*, so he would have been exposed to the scriptures as well.

In real life, the actions of the Holy spirit,
interactions within the body of Christ (the church),
and the scriptures aren't separated from each other imo.


*There's a chance that it may become relevant later in the discussion, so I want to add that Orthodox churches use somewhat different scriptures than what the average Evangelical Church uses.

Any Church is suppose to be based on the scriptures are they not? This was my point in case you missed it. The point being in both your case by reading the scriptures and that of your friends in hearing the scriptures, you both had faith to come to know God which is in agreement with Romans 10:17.

 

[Leaf473]

Sorry leaf but if I am being honest with you, I do not believe what you posted earlier was relevant to the posts you were quoting from. You simply avoided answering the questions to you showing why. I never once asked you if Jesus was the scriptures or was I comparing Jesus to the scriptures. I asked you if the words of Jesus are recorded in the scriptures. So your example does not fit in the response you provided. I asked you further, if Gods Word is in the scriptures, how can it not be the Word of God? I cannot re-word this any simpler that what was written earlier. I find your posts here simply a distraction that avoids and does not answer any of the questions asked of you so I guess we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

Yes, you did ask me earlier if the words of Jesus are recorded in the scriptures. And I answered, Yes.

More recently you asked me:
If Gods Word is in the scriptures, how can it not be the Word of God?

So you're asking me a question, "How can it not be...?"
The simple answer is that God's word and the scriptures are not identical, they are not the same.

I will happily give you more details on that, we can take it step by step.

But if you don't want to talk about it anymore, that's fine.
Peace be with you!

 

[Leaf473]

Any Church is suppose to be based on the scriptures are they not? This was my point in case you missed it. The point being in both your case by reading the scriptures and that of your friends in hearing the scriptures, you both had faith to come to know God which is in agreement with Romans 10:17.

Well, not everyone makes the same assumptions about the scriptures and the church. I heard a Catholic priest put it this way: The church doesn't come from the scriptures, the scriptures come from the church.

That can sound a bit jarring to many people, especially those who assume that the church is built on the instructions found in the scriptures.

And Yes, hearing the scriptures is almost always part of coming to faith.

############
Are you using the following reasoning?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And

"All scripture" is an exact equivalent of the "word of God".

Therefore

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by all scripture.

If you are using the above reasoning, then we disagree.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, you did ask me earlier if the words of Jesus are recorded in the scriptures. And I answered, Yes.

More recently you asked me:
If Gods Word is in the scriptures, how can it not be the Word of God?

So you're asking me a question, "How can it not be...?"
The simple answer is that God's word and the scriptures are not identical, they are not the same.

I will happily give you more details on that, we can take it step by step.

But if you don't want to talk about it anymore, that's fine.
Peace be with you!

This not very hard Leaf why are you trying to explain away the scriptures? If God or Jesus spoke the Word of God and it is recorded in the scriptures it is still a record of what God said, therefore, still Gods' Word. The only difference is that the Words that Jesus or God spoke were recorded in writing. You do not need to give me more detail because there is none. The scriptures are God's Word given to all mankind. To say that when God speaks His Word and His Word is recorded in scripture is no longer Gods' Word recorded in the scriptures is something perhaps you might want to pray about a bit more though.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, not everyone makes the same assumptions about the scriptures and the church. I heard a Catholic priest put it this way: The church doesn't come from the scriptures, the scriptures come from the church.

There is no assumptions if you believe the scriptures. The Church does indeed come from the scriptures which come from God (2 Timothy 3:15-16). There was no Church and no Israel before Gods' spoken Word was given to the Patriarchs and the Prophets. Even the New Testament came from Jesus (God) and from the old testament scriptures. Jesus of course (God), was the one who taught his disciples and Apostles. Jesus (God) and His Word has always been the head of the body which is the Church (Colossians 1:18).

That can sound a bit jarring to many people, especially those who assume that the church is built on the instructions found in the scriptures

I see the assumption here on your part as what your claiming does not agree with the scriptures already provided above.

And Yes, hearing the scriptures is almost always part of coming to faith.

Then you just agreed with me in regards to what we were discussing earlier in regards to Romans 10:17.

Are you using the following reasoning? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. And "All scripture" is an exact equivalent of the "word of God". Therefore Faith comes by hearing and hearing by all scripture. If you are using the above reasoning, then we disagree.

According to the scriptures, Gods' recorded spoken Words are seen all through the old and new testament. There is also the Word of God given to His Prophets and Apostles to give to His people all through the old and the new testament scriptures. All these Words are Gods' Word, which come from God to be given to God's people and are written for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come *1 Corinthians 10:11 and all scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness *2 Timothy 3:16 that God himself tells us that we should live by in Matthew 4:4. So to say that scripture is not Gods' Word is not biblical and is a false teaching designed to lead us away from the faith *Romans 10:17. As shown in the OP the scriptures are not the only way God communicates to us but the scriptures are indeed Gods Word and the only test as to what is true and what is not true and is the only rule of faith.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SCRIPTURE IS THE ONLY RULE OF FAITH

Lets try again. Would anyone like to try and answer this question below if they because that scripture is not the only rule of faith?

Question:

If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

This not very hard Leaf why are you trying to explain away the scriptures? If God or Jesus spoke the Word of God and it is recorded in the scriptures it is still a record of what God said, therefore, still Gods' Word. The only difference is that the Words that Jesus or God spoke were recorded in writing. You do not need to give me more detail because there is none. The scriptures are God's Word given to all mankind. To say that when God speaks His Word and His Word is recorded in scripture is no longer Gods' Word recorded in the scriptures is something perhaps you might want to pray about a bit more though.

Take Care.

I'm not interested in explaining away the scriptures. I'm interested in demonstrating where the reasoning that you use has missed the boat.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Leaf473]

There is no assumptions if you believe the scriptures. The Church does indeed come from the scriptures which come from God (2 Timothy 3:15-16). There was no Church and no Israel before Gods' spoken Word was given to the Patriarchs and the Prophets. Even the New Testament came from Jesus (God) and from the old testament scriptures. Jesus of course (God), was the one who taught his disciples and Apostles. Jesus (God) and His Word has always been the head of the body which is the Church (Colossians 1:18).

I see the assumption here on your part as what your claiming does not agree with the scriptures already provided above.

Then you just agreed with me in regards to what we were discussing earlier in regards to Romans 10:17.

According to the scriptures, Gods' recorded spoken Words are seen all through the old and new testament. There is also the Word of God given to His Prophets and Apostles to give to His people all through the old and the new testament scriptures. All these Words are Gods' Word, which come from God to be given to God's people and are written for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come *1 Corinthians 10:11 and all scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness *2 Timothy 3:16 that God himself tells us that we should live by in Matthew 4:4. So to say that scripture is not Gods' Word is not biblical and is a false teaching designed to lead us away from the faith *Romans 10:17. As shown in the OP the scriptures are not the only way God communicates to us but the scriptures are indeed Gods Word and the only test as to what is true and what is not true and is the only rule of faith.

Take Care.

You do make assumptions. For example, you probably assume that the book of Hebrews is scripture. That is an assumption, unless God told you that directly.

Throughout the rest of your post, I believe there are continued missteps in the reasoning.

Peace be with you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm not interested in explaining away the scriptures. I'm interested in demonstrating where the reasoning that you use has missed the boat. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry Leaf we will have to agree to disagree as you have not provided any scriptures in support of your view and your post here does not address any of the scriptures shared with you in the posts that disagree with you. So we of course will agree to disagree. Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You do make assumptions. For example, you probably assume that the book of Hebrews is scripture. That is an assumption, unless God told you that directly. Throughout the rest of your post, I believe there are continued missteps in the reasoning.
Peace be with you.

Sorry dear friend I have made no assumptions. The assumptions are in your words that are not Gods' Word. Then we have Gods' Word that says..."All scripture (not some of it) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). Our words and opinions do not really mean much in God's eyes if they disagree with His Word.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The question was...

Q. "If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?"

Here is the answer to my question here...

A. The answer is in the scriptures already provided. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) then faith that only comes from the Word of God is the only rule of faith because the Word of God is the origin of where our faith comes from that saves us!

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So I guess scripture is the only rule of faith because it is the final test and authority from God that leads us into the truth of Gods' Word through God's Spirit as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. It is a light unto our path when the road is dark and narrow and the final authority of what is true and what is not true.

God bless