WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[LoveGodsWord]

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who believe in their heart unto righteousness ( that Christ rose form the dead) That is what also set us free from being under the law. That is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law as told..

Then we have scripture that says...

Romans 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

According to the scriptures those who do not receive Gods' condemnation are those who are "in Christ" who "walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". That is according to Galatians 5:16 that if we walk in the Spirit we will not be obeying the lusts of the flesh or carnal mind. Therefore being obedient to Gods' law not breaking Gods' law. Therefore being "in Christ" means to be obedient to Gods' Word through faith.

[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That is if we are "in Christ" and walking in "His Spirit" we well be living a life like Jesus not being disobedient to Gods' law by breaking Gods' law. This is sin and something that Jesus never did or that God's Spirit never leads us to so because as shown earlier through the scriptures if we are walking in the Spirit we will not be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). The law of the "Spirit of life" therefore makes us free from the law of sin and death of the lusts of the flesh (carnal mind).

[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,1 condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God's law does not bring obedience to Gods' Word because the flesh (Carnal mind or sinful human nature) cannot obey it but God sending His son Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh condemned sin in the flesh so that the righteousness or obedience of Gods' law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal mind; sinful human nature) but walk after the Spirit so that we do not obey the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). So the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in obedience to Gods' law not breaking Gods' law.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Obey in faith, and how do we receive the Spirit, by the hearing of the faith of CHRIST RISING, OR BY THE TEACHING OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW ?

As it is written, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. No one is led by the Spirit to break Gods' law because God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 5:32. According to John, those who say they know God and do not keep His commandments are lying and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:3-4) because those who really know God do not practice sin (breaking Gods law) *1 John 3:6-9.

Now they obey the truth, by receiving the Spirit by the hearing of faith AND NOT BY THE DOING OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW , BECAUSE WE CANT BE MADE PERFECT IN THE LAW AS TOLD ALSO Then obedience is in faith ( not in the letter of the law that kills) so put it all together and we have obedience of faith.

According to the scriptures, if our faith does not have works all you have is the dead faith of devils (see James 2:17-26) Which agrees with John who shows that the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin (breaking Gods' law) in 1 John 3:6-9. Therefore according to John no one can claim to know God while living in sin and disobedience to Gods' Word in 1 John 2:3-4. Paul also says that if we have received Gods' Spirit and walk in Gods' Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh but the be obedient to Gods' law as shown in Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; Romans 13:8-12. Therefore faith does not abolish the law like some try and teach it establishes Gods' law in the lives of all those who believe Gods' Word so that they are obedient to Gods' law *Romans 3:31.

The Epistle ( as the law) can only be written and in the heart by nature, it no longer is teachable, or in letters to follow...

No one therefore has Gods' law written in the heart if they are breaking Gods' law. If someone is breaking Gods' law according to the scriptures they do not know God and need to be born again according to John in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-9.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsword, you can neither teach, nor use letters to show what must be done.

If you dont know why ?

Because the preaching of the faith is what saves, ythe old ( testament) way clearly did not save.

Now saved by the foolishness of preaching.

Just remember why they did the law of circumcision, and how all they did in Israel was for glory of men ( sabbaths etc) but now, as 1 Corinthians states, no flesh shall glory in His sight.


Remember they DESIRE TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, THEY DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW?

Also they DESIRE TO MAKE A FAIR SHOW IN THE FLESH ( to show circumcision in the law in the flesh)..

No one keeps the Spirit of the law without believing the letter of the law because it is the letter of the law that leads us to the Spirit of the law as we believe what Gods' Word says through faith (Romans 3:31). This is because according to Jesus the words that he speaks unto us are Spirit and are life as we believe them (John 6:63; John 3:36). They are the seeds that remain so we can be born of God not to practice sin (see 1 John 3:9 and Luke 8:11). It is the Spirit of the law that writes Gods' new covenant promise in the hearts of those who walk by faith in Gods' Word (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Galatians 5:16; 2 Corinthians 5:7) to be obedient to Gods' law which is the fruit of faith.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are guilty for insisting that law must be kept and misquoting James to justify your law keeping, LoveGodword.
Otherwise if you really do love Gods word, then notice the difference, we do obey the truth, but the truth is Christ risen ( determined not to know anything among you, but Christ and Him crucified)

According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SDA is also guilty for denying the glorious rest of Christ ( we labour to enter into yet) by insisting we keep a sabbath on earth, and thus denying Christs ASCENSION TO HEAVEN.

The Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Exodus 20:8-11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to James if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand convicted "under the law" guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God's Word to break His commandments. According to Jesus if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. This then begs the question if we are following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break Gods' commandments who are we following God or man? God has His people in every Church (John 10:16) living up to all the knowledge that he has revealed to them and knows that many break His commandments out of ignorance (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17) but now when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says. According to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling His people where ever they might be to come out of following man-made teachings and traditions and to return to his Word. Gods' sheep will hear His Voice (the Word), and follow Him. Those who do not hear will not follow according to Jesus because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The law was not only the ten commandments, it was the book of the law.


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


The law is not taught ( that is not faith) Christ's death to save us from our sins ( in that law and previous faulty covenant) is. Then His resurrection is our mind and conscience following ( and hearing ) Him, and not men teaching their own doctrines that are not the faith.

The book of the law is not the same as God's law written on two tables of stone to be written on the fleshly tables of the heart to love in Gods' new covenant promise. Love is not separate to God's law. Love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law which is why Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. Paul agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 when he says that we show our love to our fellow man by keeping those laws in Gods' commandments that show us our duty of love to our neighbor (Exodus 20:12-17). James also agrees with Jesus and Paul in James 2:8-12 when he says if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. While John also agrees in 1 John 5:2-3 that we need to be born of God to love and walk in His Spirit which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. No one loves God therefore by breaking God's law and not believing and following what Gods' Word says. Those are the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:6-10.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus specifically and with very plain and straightforward words taught eternal security. In John 5:24, Jesus said those who are believing HAVE (as in POSSESS) eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

It doesn't take a Greek scholar to figure this out. What He said is so clear that anyone can understand it.

When a person believes in Christ, they are given eternal life. And those given eternal life shall never perish. iow, they CAN'T perish.

Peter made the same point, in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The point is, those born of imperishable seed cannot perish. Impossible. All believers are described as being born again. (with imperishable seed, of course)

Paul taught the same thing.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

v.13 "when you believed" (aorist tense, when in past time you believed)
"you were marked in Christ with a seal, the Holy Spirit"

v.14 "who (Holy Spirit) is a DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession.

Real clear words. When a person believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a deposit who GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance until the redemption (that would be at the resurrection/rapture when every believer receives their glorified bodies).

All these verses, from Jesus, Peter and Paul teach eternal security.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching against these men and the Savior.

Your post here is simply more repetition already addressed with detailed scripture responses throughout this thread.

This is the point right here. Those who are "believing" have God's promise of eternal life. That is by believing they have the hope of eternal life if they should remain faithful to the end believing and following what Gods' Word says because God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what Gods' Word says to the end. If we are no longer "believing" then we have departed the faith and eternal life that we receive which is conditional to "believing and following" Gods' Word to the end. According to the scriptures shared with you already, and also demonstrated in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31. If no one could depart the faith (stop believing) we would not be warned against it.

If someone has departed the faith they are no longer believing but have become unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. It is written in John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him = unsaved".

Every scripture you have provided are to Gods' people that are "believing" not those who once believed yesterday, "departed the faith" today to become "unbelievers". Those who shall "NEVER PERISH" according to the scriptures, therefore are all those who continue "believing" to the very end. They are "believers" (present tense), not unbelievers or someone that believed yesterday but has chosen to "depart the faith" and no longer believes today (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:27-31).

Take Care.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply but you did not address any of the very plain and straightforward scriptures by Jesus or the apostles about keeping the commandments.

Why should I have? Are you suggesting that keeping the commandments are required for salvation??? Well, they aren't. And the verses I quoted PROVE that every believer, from the moment they believe and receive the gift of eternal life, and are sealed with the Holy Spirit, SHALL NEVER PERISH.

And NONE of the verses mention "keeping commandments" or ANY other kind of lifestyle.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey the commandments as Jesus plainly tells us John 14:15-18 Acts 5:32

Are you really trying to pit Scripture against Scripture?

Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

The verses you cited CANNOT mean what you think they mean. Or the Bible would be contradicted, which is impossible.

You can't be sealed with the Holy Spirit and be living in perpetual sin.

I appreciate your emotions about that, but the Bible disagrees with your emotional opinion.

I guess you either didn't actually read Eph 1:13, 14 or you did read the verses but outright rejected them. Either way, your views do not line up with Scripture.

This is so very common among those who believe that salvation can be lost. They get very emotional about certain kinds of sin or offensive lifestyles, and just cannot believe that God will let them in heaven.

But, we know there was a guy in Corinth who was having sex with his mother-in-law. Paul didn't write him off as an unbeliever or a believer who lost salvation, but a carnal type who needed to be kicked out of the congregation as discipline. And by 2 Corinthians, it appears he repented.

Jesus said My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27.

This is a simple description of what Jesus' sheep DO. Or as a policy statement, what they OUGHT to do. What this verse is NOT, is a condition for receiving eternal life.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your reply was twisted.

We don't put our faith in the written word, the scripture, we put our faith in Jesus Christ, The WORD HIMSELF!

Never use the capital 'WORD' when referring to the scripture.

John 5:39
You examine the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very scriptures that testify about Me.

The scripture is all about Jesus and nothing else.

If you believe in Jesus you have everything, if you believe in the scripture itself, you would be a pharisee.

Sorry I do not believe you. Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. We only know about Christ today through His written Word that we are to share with others.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Repentance means a change of mind, a change in direction. To believe in Jesus is true repentance!

"So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:41)

These three thousand souls were converted in a single day due to Peter's speech.

These three thousand souls had no time to repent of their sins in one day.

These three thousand souls were all Christians.

The fruit that you can use to ascertain whether someone is a Christian, is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Are you saying that the three thousand souls were not Christians and not saved?

See post # 496 linked

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Guilty also of insisting in SDA, Judiasm, and Messiansists, to insist we must separate between clean and unclean ( that is old knowledge) now in the new knowledge of Christ all creatures are good and sanctified, as God sanctified and declared that for the Gentiles at the same time( previously it was against the law to go into one of another nation. Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

According to the scriptures if we do not believe and follow what Gods' Word says then we are in sin and unbelief that the scriptures warn us about and have departed the faith. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Repenting from sin cannot save you or anyone else.

Give up coveting and see where that gets you.

The call to repent, is a call to turn to Jesus so that your sins can be blotted out.

Acts of the apostles 3:19
Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

A Christian is a person that believes in Jesus Christ.

A Christian is not a person who repented of coveting.

You have confused the gospel with an orderly walk as a Christian.

A sanctified life cannot save, it may grant self righteousness but nothing else.

This is what saves.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Notice it does not say, may be saved, or conditional on how good they are at repenting.

That verse states: "will be saved"

According to the scriptures, repentance from sin is the condition of receiving Gods' Spirit. God does not give His Spirit to those who disobey Him (Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Acts of the Apostles 3:19; Acts of the Apostles 5:32. According to John sin (breaking God's law and not believing Gods' Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:4-10. Those who are the children of God do not practice sin while those who claim to know God and break His commandments according to John do not know God and are liars with Gods' truth not being in them according to 1 John 2:3-4. Gods' saints therefore are all those who keep the commandments of God because they have faith in Jesus according to Revelation 14:12. Something to pray about I guess.

Take Care.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is simply more repetition already addressed with detailed scripture responses throughout this thread.

Why do you just keep repeating yourself? no matter how many times you do this, it won't make any of it true.

This is the point right here. Those who are "believing" have God's promise of eternal life.

I've already refuted this untruth. John 5:24 doesn't even mention a "promise" as you keep repeating. Read it for yourself. "have eternal life" isn't a promise. It's a statement about POSSESSION of eternal life. Are you eyes closed or something?? Well, open them up.

That is by believing they have the hope of eternal life if they should remain faithful to the end believing and following what Gods' Word says because God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what Gods' Word says to the end. If we are no longer "believing" then we have departed the faith and eternal life that we receive which is conditional to "believing and following" Gods' Word to the end. According to the scriptures shared with you already, and also demonstrated in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31. If no one could depart the faith (stop believing) we would not be warned against it.

Well, since you reject what John 5:24 actually says, there is no reason to reply to any of this extremely biases and inaccurate stuff.

If someone has departed the faith they are no longer believing but have become unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. It is written in John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him = unsaved".

Faulty conclusion based on FAILURE to properly understand Scripture.

Since you bring up "departed the faith", let's see what the Bible says about who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The bolded words are the very same in both verses. So, what do they mean?

They mean "never believed". If you EVER ate a rutabaga, it cannot be said that you "have not eaten" a rutabaga. Because you did once.

So, these 2 verses destroy your theory that anyone who departs the faith will perish.

These 2 verses say that it is those who "have not believed" will be condemned, or perish.

Every scripture you have provided are to Gods' people that are "believing" not those who once believed yesterday, "departed the faith" today to become "unbelievers". Those who shall "NEVER PERISH" according to the scriptures, therefore are all those who continue "believing" to the very end. They are "believers" (present tense), not unbelievers or someone that believed yesterday but has chosen to "depart the faith" and no longer believes today (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:27-31).

There is no reason to address any of this since you have repeatedly demonstrated a very serious misunderstanding of Greek tenses. Which has led you to very unbiblical ideas.

 

[GDL]

which means the same thing as:

We, by keeping those laws (subject), show our love (object) to our fellow man.

So. . .keeping those laws (subject) shows our love (object) to our fellow man.

That is knowing misrepresentation of Romans 13:8-10; i.e., exchanging the grammatical object (law) for the grammatical subject (love) of the NT texts in Romans 13:8, Romans 13:9-10, which are:

"Love (subject) is the fulfillment of the law (object) 'and whatever other commandment there may be'." (Romans 13:9-10)

"He who has loved (subject) his fellow man has fulfilled the law (object)." (Romans 13:8)

Please explain the meaning of those two texts (Romans 13:8, Romans 13:9-10), not a according to your grammatical misrepresentation of them, but according to their NT grammatical order; i.e., the grammatical subject = love, the grammatical object = law.

Hi Clare:

What's the specific point you're trying to draw out here? Especially re: 13:10b.

Thanks!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry dear friend but I do not believe you.

Do you really think your repetition of this very trite comment makes a difference to anything? I assure you it doesn't, so you might as well quit.

btw, since your views of Scripture are so out of whack, I already know you don't believe me. The sad thing is that you don't really believe the Word either.

All your posts have been addressed with detailed scripture responses

If only that were true. But, sadly, it's just another empty claim.

I've given you verses that plainly teach eternal security.

John 5:24 with John 10:28
Eph 1;13,14
1 Peter 1:23

And I showed that condemnation is ONLY for those who "never believed" which blows your "depart the faith" theory right out of the water.

And you haven't even touched these verses.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why do you just keep repeating yourself? no matter how many times you do this, it won't make any of it true.


I've already refuted this untruth. John 5:24 doesn't even mention a "promise" as you keep repeating. Read it for yourself. "have eternal life" isn't a promise. It's a statement about POSSESSION of eternal life. Are you eyes closed or something?? Well, open them up.


Well, since you reject what John 5:24 actually says, there is no reason to reply to any of this extremely biases and inaccurate stuff.


Faulty conclusion based on FAILURE to properly understand Scripture.

Since you bring up "departed the faith", let's see what the Bible says about who will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The bolded words are the very same in both verses. So, what do they mean?

They mean "never believed". If you EVER ate a rutabaga, it cannot be said that you "have not eaten" a rutabaga. Because you did once.

So, these 2 verses destroy your theory that anyone who departs the faith will perish.

These 2 verses say that it is those who "have not believed" will be condemned, or perish.


There is no reason to address any of this since you have repeatedly demonstrated a very serious misunderstanding of Greek tenses. Which has led you to very unbiblical ideas.

Hi thanks for your reply but all I see here is that you have not addressed anything in the post you are responding to except to provide an opinion unsupported by the scriptures. So I guess we will agree to disagree. You were provided scripture why I believe your claims are not true. Anyhow of course you are free to believe as you wish. That is between you and God I guess. If we are warned not to "depart the faith" and we can choose to depart the faith at any time there is no such thing as eternal security in my view because the promise of "eternal security" is only ever given to those who are "believing" (present tense) God's Word to the end. If we choose to "depart the faith" then we are no longer believing but have become "unbelieving" and according to Jesus the wrath of God remains on us (John 3:36).

Take Care.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You were provided scripture why I believe your claims are not true.

LOL. Given your total misunderstanding of Greek tenses, you have been led astray.

You have NOT addressed John 5:24 with 10:28.

You have NOT addressed Eph 1:13,14.

You have NOT addressed 1 Peter 1:23.

You have NOT addressed John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12.

These verses plainly REFUTE all your claims.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LOL. Given your total misunderstanding of Greek tenses, you have been led astray.

You have NOT addressed John 5:24 with 10:28.

You have NOT addressed Eph 1:13,14.

You have NOT addressed 1 Peter 1:23.

You have NOT addressed John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12.

These verses plainly REFUTE all your claims.

I am sorry dear friend, but I do not believe there is a single claim or accusation in your post here that has any truth in it whatsoever. So we will agree to disagree. Everyone of those scriptures were addressed with a detailed scripture response throughout this thread showing those scriptures are not saying what you are claiming they are saying. Even the Greek tenses were provided that are in disagreement with you. According to the scriptures, God's promises are conditional to believing or not unbelieving Gods' Word in those who choose to depart the faith to become unbelievers (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36). If we can choose to depart the faith at any time through temptation and sin, then there is no such thing as eternal security in my personal view according to the scriptures.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Everyone of those scriptures were addressed with a detailed scripture response throughout this thread.

This is a total untruth. I JUST NOW added John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12. So we now know you are not below spreading untruths.

showing those scriptures are not saying what you are claiming they are saying.

You've shown nothing of the kind.

God's promises are conditional to believing not unbelieving or unbelief in Gods' Word in those who choose to depart the faith to become unbelievers (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36).

And you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why should I have? Are you suggesting that keeping the commandments are required for salvation??? Well, they aren't.

And the verses I quoted PROVE that every believer, from the moment they believe and receive the gift of eternal life, and are sealed with the Holy Spirit, SHALL NEVER PERISH.

And NONE of the verses mention "keeping commandments" or ANY other kind of lifestyle.


Are you really trying to pit Scripture against Scripture?

Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

The verses you cited CANNOT mean what you think they mean. Or the Bible would be contradicted, which is impossible.


I appreciate your emotions about that, but the Bible disagrees with your emotional opinion.

I guess you either didn't actually read Eph 1:13, 14 or you did read the verses but outright rejected them. Either way, your views do not line up with Scripture.

This is so very common among those who believe that salvation can be lost. They get very emotional about certain kinds of sin or offensive lifestyles, and just cannot believe that God will let them in heaven.

But, we know there was a guy in Corinth who was having sex with his mother-in-law. Paul didn't write him off as an unbeliever or a believer who lost salvation, but a carnal type who needed to be kicked out of the congregation as discipline. And by 2 Corinthians, it appears he repented.


This is a simple description of what Jesus' sheep DO. Or as a policy statement, what they OUGHT to do. What this verse is NOT, i a condition for receiving eternal life.

I'm not emotional and I agree scripture does not discount scripture, so I'm not sure it's wise to keep discounting clear scripture.

I never said obeying the commandments was required for salvation, but as shown through scripture very clearly, God's saints keep the commandments Revelation 14:12, so it is a fruit of our faith, we are saved by grace through our faith, which is established by God's law Romans 3:31. It's a good way to test yourself to see if you are in the faith. Those who are not doers of God's Word only deceive themselves. James 1:22

If God tells us we show our love through obedience, not my words but the Word of God why would you want to argue with that? Why would anyone want to do the very least to get into to heaven if you love Jesus?

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Exodus 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

It sounds to be me people who don’t want to keep the commandments has a problem with love. Love is the fulfillment of the law which is shown through our obedience.

Take care.