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Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

Timtofly

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It doesn't matter whichever way you twist it, it still says the same thing. All mankind is judged when Jesus comes (“the righteous in Christ” or “the spiritually dead outside of Christ”). Mankind is found in one of these 2 camps.

This contradicts your previous statement:
The dead are constantly dying physically. They will only be judged once.
 
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Timtofly

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There was no one resurrected in Genesis procreating. No one defeated the grave until Jesus did at the first resurrection. This is a non-sensical, absurd and irrelevant comparison. How do resurrected immortal and incorruptible people procreate? Where does Scripture teach this?
What is the purpose of living on earth, if not to procreate? Genesis 5 is an example of how procreation works over 1000 years. I did not say there was a resurrection in Genesis 5.

How does any one procreate? Those on earth are not the glorified church. The glorified church is in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years.
 
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sovereigngrace

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So you change the topic?

What is the answer based on a future 1000 years?

I already know the difference between living on earth and living in Paradise. In fact I hold they are currently enjoying permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They are experiencing the fullness of Paradise. Unlike souls literally "floating" around heaven, or under a literal alter. There is a reality behind the symbolism.

Pretending the reality of the here and now replaces a whole chapter in the book of Revelation, is based on human opinion known as recapitulation. I am not having a discussion about the here and now, even though you are right about the here and now. The reality is the future after the Second Coming. You have yet to convince me, God will never honor the promises made in Daniel 9:24. The 70 weeks are not over until the Second Coming. So according to you, the promises of the 70 weeks do not even apply to current reality. They only apply to the NHNE. Then it will not even matter. The end of the 70 weeks would be the end of time, literally.

You force Jerusalem into Revelation 20, when it is considered since the cross as Sodom and Egypt, and is in bondage with her children.
 
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sovereigngrace

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What is the purpose of living on earth, if not to procreate? Genesis 5 is an example of how procreation works over 1000 years. I did not say there was a resurrection in Genesis 5.

How does any one procreate? Those on earth are not the glorified church. The glorified church is in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years.

There is only one people of God. You are yet to show 2 peoples in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else) - one in heaven and one on earth. You have yet to show where resurrected human beings can procreate anywhere. Everyone knows, you have invented that out of thin air. It is extra-biblical!

Does the glorified church in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem procreate? If not, why not?
 
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sovereigngrace

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The dead are constantly dying physically. They will only be judged once.

You are ducking around the contradictions in your position: it doesn't matter whichever way you twist it, it still says the same thing. All mankind is judged when Jesus comes (“the righteous in Christ” or “the spiritually dead outside of Christ”). Mankind is found in one of these 2 camps.
 
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Timtofly

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You force Jerusalem into Revelation 20, when it is considered since the cross as Sodom and Egypt, and is in bondage with her children.
I don't force it. Take it or leave it. The whole world is changed. Jerusalem is not going to be a wicked or cursed city in the Millennium. Why would there be any reminders of sin in Daniel 9:24?
 
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Timtofly

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There is only one people of God. You are yet to show 2 peoples in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else) - one in heaven and one on earth. You have yet to show where resurrected human beings can procreate anywhere. Everyone knows, you have invented that out of thin air. It is extra-biblical!

Does the glorified church in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem procreate? If not, why not?
You have yet to answer how any one populates the earth. So until you have an answer, I will stick with procreation.

There are people on earth and people in the New Jerusalem. Do you have proof there are not?
 
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Timtofly

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You are ducking around the contradictions in your position: it doesn't matter whichever way you twist it, it still says the same thing. All mankind is judged when Jesus comes (“the righteous in Christ” or “the spiritually dead outside of Christ”). Mankind is found in one of these 2 camps.
Those in Christ were judged on the Cross. What verses contradict that fact?
 
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sovereigngrace

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I don't force it. Take it or leave it. The whole world is changed. Jerusalem is not going to be a wicked or cursed city in the Millennium. Why would there be any reminders of sin in Daniel 9:24?

Instead of continually advancing your opinions: where exactly is Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 20?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You have yet to answer how any one populates the earth. So until you have an answer, I will stick with procreation.

There are people on earth and people in the New Jerusalem. Do you have proof there are not?

Scripture disallows Premil. Only the righteous are qualified to inherit the new earth. Mortals and the wicked do not survive the coming of Christ or are qualified to populate the new earth as you allege. They are destroyed by fire. We have repeatedly showed you that and you have rejected what the text is stating. You are promoting personal opinion here to sustain your beliefs.

Proverbs 2:21-22 states: For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.”

Even in the Old Testament, when the new age or world is mentioned, it is always identified exclusively with the righteous. This is not strange when we consider it is a prepared place for a prepared people. This is an arrangement where the wicked and wickedness are prohibited from.

Psalm 37:9-11 says, For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait `upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”

Again, this is a truth that is repeated clearly and unambiguously throughout both Testaments.

Psalm 37:22 says, For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.”

The wicked are not worthy to inherit the new glorified earth and the perfect age to come.

Psalm 37:28-36 continues, “For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever ... Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.”

Here, “evildoers” and “the wicked” are synonymous titles that refer to the unrighteous whereas the designations “those that wait upon the LORD,” “the meek” and “His saints” refer to the righteous. The meek are the glorified believers. They are the antithesis of the wicked. Can you not see that? There are only ever 2 peoples. The meek alone possess the new earth - those that have been redeemed by His precious blood.

Psalm 25:12-13 says: What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose. His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.”

This is the truth that is repeated by Christ in the New Testament. We see that confirmed in Matthew 5:5 saying, Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”

This current earth must be perfected. It must be glorified. It must be brought back to the paradise it was before the fall. Every time Scripture speaks of the believer receiving his inheritance (the kingdom/earth) it also shows the wicked receiving their eternal punishment.

The glorified saints are said to inherit the earth. This is assuredly talking about a new glorified earth, not this current corrupt arrangement that they have just departed. Their inheritance is not another period of corruption, rebellion and despair. They have just escaped that. The promised earth in view is actually depicted as a reward for the faithful. It cannot therefore be shared with the wicked.

1 Corinthians 6:9 also confirms: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?”

According to Scripture the ungodly are forbidden from this new glorified earth. The wicked are left outside the eternal kingdom.

When Jesus comes it is the end! The sheep inherit the kingdom (Matthew 25:34) and “life eternal (Matthew 25:46) whereas the goats are cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:41) and receive everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46).

1 Corinthians 15:50 declares, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

This reading makes plain, “flesh and blood” or mortal believers cannot inherit a glorified earth that has been purified by fire of every last vestige of the curse. Man in his sinful corruptible state cannot inherit an incorruptible regenerated earth. Nothing could be plainer.

The new earth and the age to come is reserved solely for God’s people. The wicked will not see Christ’s face in the new arrangement because they are not qualified to inherit it. They will be destroyed at His glorious second advent.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I don't force it. Take it or leave it. The whole world is changed. Jerusalem is not going to be a wicked or cursed city in the Millennium. Why would there be any reminders of sin in Daniel 9:24?

You are ducking around the contradictions in your position: it doesn't matter whichever way you twist it, it still says the same thing. All mankind is judged when Jesus comes (“the righteous in Christ” or “the spiritually dead outside of Christ”). Mankind is found in one of these 2 camps.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You have yet to answer how any one populates the earth. So until you have an answer, I will stick with procreation.

There are people on earth and people in the New Jerusalem. Do you have proof there are not?

There is only one people of God. You are yet to show 2 peoples in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else) - one in heaven and one on earth. You have yet to show where resurrected human beings can procreate anywhere. Everyone knows, you have invented that out of thin air. It is extra-biblical!

Does the glorified church in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem procreate? If not, why not?
 
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Timtofly

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Instead of continually advancing your opinions: where exactly is Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 20?
Any answer, even your own is an opinion. You are advancing yours, but it is wrong to point out Jerusalem is the beloved city? Since you have no other city you claim is the beloved city, why are you objecting so much to Jerusalem? Even in a post above, you point out all things are made new at the Second Coming. Even the physical Jerusalem is restored.
 
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Timtofly

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You are ducking around the contradictions in your position: it doesn't matter whichever way you twist it, it still says the same thing. All mankind is judged when Jesus comes (“the righteous in Christ” or “the spiritually dead outside of Christ”). Mankind is found in one of these 2 camps.
You are not pointing out any contradictions. Two camps? Is one of those on earth for 1000 years?
 
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Timtofly

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There is only one people of God. You are yet to show 2 peoples in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else) - one in heaven and one on earth. You have yet to show where resurrected human beings can procreate anywhere. Everyone knows, you have invented that out of thin air. It is extra-biblical!

Does the glorified church in Paradise waiting until the New Jerusalem procreate? If not, why not?
If you claim no one can procreate, why ask why they cannot? That is your rule, not mine. Why cannot they procreate during the Millennium reign?

What verse claims a glorified church can procreate?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Any answer, even your own is an opinion. You are advancing yours, but it is wrong to point out Jerusalem is the beloved city? Since you have no other city you claim is the beloved city, why are you objecting so much to Jerusalem? Even in a post above, you point out all things are made new at the Second Coming. Even the physical Jerusalem is restored.

Please read the New Testament narrative. Because Jerusalem is under the wrath of God today. It rejected Jesus. Jerusalem is considered since the cross as Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11:7-9), and is in bondage with her children (Galatians 4:25). Where in Revelation 20 does it say Jerusalem is restored? It really seems like you are winging it.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You are not pointing out any contradictions. Two camps? Is one of those on earth for 1000 years?

The thousand years occur intra-Advent. You have zero Scripture to corroborate it happening after. It started at the first resurrection of Jesus.
 
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sovereigngrace

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If you claim no one can procreate, why ask why they cannot? That is your rule, not mine. Why cannot they procreate during the Millennium reign?

What verse claims a glorified church can procreate?

The burden of proof is with you. You thought up this absurdity. You invented this extra-biblical theory. So, where does it teach this in the Bible that resurrected redeemed believers procreate and produce billions of wicked satanists?
 
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Timtofly

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Please read the New Testament narrative. Because Jerusalem is under the wrath of God today. It rejected Jesus. Jerusalem is considered since the cross as Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11:7-9), and is in bondage with her children (Galatians 4:25). Where in Revelation 20 does it say Jerusalem is restored? It really seems like you are winging it.
Is there a literal camp of the saints? Is there a literal beloved city? Unless these are symbolic terms for some spiritual application, these are literal places that are about to be surrounded by a very large amount of literal people.

Revelation 20 declares they live some where, and you know that it does. You do not seem to want to call that somewhere, Jerusalem. I still am not sure why you think Revelation 20 has to spell everything out to satisfy those, who are dead set against the words that are found in the chapter.
 
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Timtofly

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The thousand years occur intra-Advent. You have zero Scripture to corroborate it happening after. It started at the first resurrection of Jesus.
That is your opinion. No Scripture indicates that at all. Since you cannot find Jerusalem in the chapter, how are you inserting Jesus even died into the chapter? Would that not have been in Jerusalem?
 
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