Shadow of the mark

[Timtofly]

Can you tell me why dont you take the word "soon" literally, but why do you take metaphors like "mountains will be moved" literally? Why do you use such strange rule to tell what is literal and what is not?

I think it was literally meant to be taken as soon for all time, and without obligation that it would happen. I think it would not matter after death, because those in Paradise know the truth, and it would not upset them like you alledge in your argument. I think the last generation would have a clearer understanding in hindsight, at least until I met Preterist in the last year, who truly seemed alarmed about it for some reason.

I would not call it a deception invented by Preterist. It might be listed as an obsession though. I am sure most struggle with other major sin and what not, so the extra obsession does not make sense to me, and I struggle with obsession sometimes. Just not over that.

Nor do I think it wrong God wanted the church to always see the Second Coming as soon. I am sure many have jumped the gun over the timing, and many times lost to history that we may find out after we get to Paradise, and all will have a good laugh at human understanding.

 

[Timtofly]

So what is your solution, to change the beginning and the end of the book?

Trust and obey God.

Kinda late to help those in the first century. They already know the truth.

 

[trophy33]

I think it was literally meant to be taken as soon for all time, and without obligation that it would happen.

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen soon.
Rev 1:1

You are saying the opposite to the Bible. How can such theology be valid?

 

[trophy33]

.

 

[robycop3]

Most of the world, or the whole world? Be specific.

There'll likely be some people in remote areas whom the beast won't bother with.

 

[robycop3]

So history books mention that microchips are the mark of the beast? Are they books from the future?

They mention the eschatological events, including the mark, only in futuristic language, not in the past.

 

[robycop3]

Been that way for quite a while and it past the 40 year mark for futurist, so that doesn't work for your side anymore.



Sin has always been rampant in every age that is nothing new and everyone thinks their time is the end. Happened in the past and it is not worldwide just in the west right now. Your western bias is showing, where if it happens in my area it is happening everywhere which it s not.



If I have a penny for every time I heard that I would be a multimillionaire or multi-billionaire, it just isn't going to happen. I heard it when Credit cards became a thing, when ATM cards became a thing, when you could use Apple pay, and not the crazy conspiracy is cryptocurrency. When the next thing comes along there will be crazy conspiracies about that too.




I have heard that many evangelical services are like that but that has nothing to do with the end of the world. I and many others go o solemn services and Masses, not at all like you think.




I am in the tech sector and I can tell you that is an evangelical myth brought on by hysteria of taking things to literal and using bad interpretation. This type of thing you described has been said for ages and nothing comes of it. We are a long long way from any microchip being able to be implanted in a person. The bod would see such a thing as a foreign object and start dissolving it as was shown in the show myth busters,



The proper title of Revelation is The Apocalypse of St. John and it doesn't mean end times as some evangelicals want it to, it does mean a disclosure of great events and St. John was doing just that. So f really believe the Bible was inspired by Gd then your saying God purposely lied when He had St. John write "these things which much shortly come to pass". Shortly does not mean in two thousand or more years no matter how you evangelicals spin it



No your ideas are your own not based in reality but learned and parroted. I use to be like you until I broke that cycle and realized evangelicalism lied to me. I don't have to have guesswork I can look at the text and understand short means just that you have to spin it to mean a long time. I understand that the letter wasn't written to modern man but to early Christians undergoing very heavy persecution. Revelations in a book of discipline and a book of hope for those early Christians it is only modern evangelicals whom take the book out of it's context and plop it down into modern ideas and headlines.

People have had pacemaker electrodes implanted for decades, which are, of course, more electrically-active than a chip.. I've had a stainless steel rod implanted in the first tarsal bone in my left foot since age 16.(I'm now 73.) So implants are very possible.

But now, something that affects one nation affects the whole world in some manner. For instance, the disappearance of a Chinese tennis star brought angry reactions from North America & Europe. Almost a hundred years ago, there was very-little worldwide notice of severe flooding of the Yangtze River in China, killing many, was little-noticed outside of China. A businessman can now go from New York City to Tokyo or Beijing in one day.

But if you believe the apocalypse has already occurred, simply show it to us from history.

 

[robycop3]

I already did, you simply do not want to read the links and repeat the request again and again, instead.

And YOU keep referring to the Roman-Jewish war of 66-73 AD, which was not worldwide & didn't affect all the Jews, as if that were the apocalypse.


No, your links centered around the sieges of, and destruction of, Jerusalem & the temple. You're forgetting that a much-greater punishment came upon the Jews in 135-136 AD when the Romans, under Hadrian, expelled them from Judea & gave their land to the Philistines. ("Palestinians" in Latin) Then, the Jews were despised & persecuted wherever they went, culminating in the nazi holocaust.

The destruction of J & the temple was NOT the apocalypse. That was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" Jesus pronounced against that generation of Jews. It did not affect the whole world. The beast & false prophet didn't come. The great trib didn't come. All life in the Mediterranean Sea didn't die. And, most importantly, Jesus did not physically, visibly return in great power & glory, seen by all.

I'm sitting here with my Bible & history boox, awaiting proof that the apocalypse has already occurred.

 

[trophy33]

And YOU keep referring to the Roman-Jewish war of 66-73 AD, which was not worldwide & didn't affect all the Jews, as if that were the apocalypse.

I posted many more links than just about the Roman-Jewish war. It was just the first one. For example about Nero, Caligula etc.

I'm sitting here with my Bible & history boox, awaiting proof that the apocalypse has already occurred.

Again, the proof is right in the book of Apocalypse you are talking about, you just continue to ignore it:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1
"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

==> The things had to take place soon. Case closed.

 

[Hammster]

There'll likely be some people in remote areas whom the beast won't bother with.

So again, most of the world, or the whole world? And please cite the scriptures you are referring to so that I can give you a proper response.

 

[Hammster]

They mention the eschatological events, including the mark, only in futuristic language, not in the past.

Which history books are you reading that contain this information?

 

[robycop3]

I posted many more links than just about the Roman-Jewish war. It was just the first one. For example about Nero, Caligula etc.

Again, the proof is right in the book of Apocalypse you are talking about, you just continue to ignore it:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1
"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

==> The things had to take place soon. Case closed.

OK, then, why can't you produce **PROOF** that they have already happened?????

These are big events, & had they already happened, there'd be mucho documentation of all of them.

I posted why Nero couldn't've been the beast. And Caligula certainly wasn't, either. The same reasons I posted about why Nero wasn't the beast apply to Caligula as well.

 

[trophy33]

OK, then, why can't you produce **PROOF** that they have already happened?????

Here it is for the 3rd time:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1
"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

 

[trophy33]

These are big events, & had they already happened, there'd be mucho documentation of all of them.

This is just your opinion. It happened long time ago.

I posted why Nero couldn't've been the beast. And Caligula certainly wasn't, either. The same reasons I posted about why Nero wasn't the beast apply to Caligula as well.

This is just your opinion.

Opinions are neither facts nor proper arguments.

We know for sure that it had to happen soon. So if you personally do not think it was Nero, you can find another figure or political power you like more from that time period, I am not obligated to do it for you. Use your "boox".

 

[robycop3]

So again, most of the world, or the whole world? And please cite the scriptures you are referring to so that I can give you a proper response.

Rev. 3:1010 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

This was sent by Jesus, thru John, to the church at Philadelphia, which, BTW, still exists. That Philadelphia is now known as Alasehir, Turkey, & the church is Eastern Orthodox. It's an island of Christianity in a sea of Moslems, but they get along well.

 

[robycop3]

Which history books are you reading that contain this information?

Encyclopaedia, Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, World Book Encyclopedia, and many internet articles. I've also seen similar over the years in boox & magazine articles whose names & authors I don't remember.

 

[robycop3]

Here it is for the 3rd time:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1
"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

But they haven't yet occurred.

 

[trophy33]

But they haven't yet occurred.

They had to. Thats what the Bible says. We cannot change that.

We have basically two options
a) to accept what it says and trust it happened in some way
b) to say its not inspired, canonical or ignore the book as Luther, Calvin and many others did

We do not have the option to take the content and to ignore the beginning and the end of the book. The option to accept "what" and to reject "when".

 

[robycop3]

This is just your opinion. It happened long time ago.

This is just your opinion.

Opinions are neither facts nor proper arguments.

We know for sure that it had to happen soon. So if you personally do not think it was Nero, you can find another figure or political power you like more from that time period, I am not obligated to do it for you. Use your "boox".

So, where's your proof? You keep SAYING they happened, but you can't show us one quark of evidence from history that they did.

You remind me of a fellow sailor I served with, who was a dedicated flat-earther. On the ocean, the range of visibility on the water's surface is 26 miles. He & I were on the quarterdeck of our ship, watching a big ship sail away from us while we were stopped, & when it hit the 26 mile mark away from us, it appeared to slowly sink as the distance increased. The other sailor declared it'd fallen off the edge of the world. A little while later, we began to move & that other ship had stopped, & slowly began coming back into view, superstructure first. I asked the other sailor if perhaps Atlas had pushed it back up. He said it was just a mirage. Funny, we came within a thousand yards of that mirage & we could hear it. The other sailor said it was just some sleight-of-hand like the "Philadelphia Experiment".

"Wisdom is justified by her children!"

With all due respect, you have plenty of shadow, but no substance.

 

[robycop3]

They had to. Thats what the Bible says. We cannot change that.

We have basically two options
a) to accept what it says and trust it happened in some way
b) to say its not inspired, canonical or ignore the book as Luther, Calvin and many others did

We do not have the option to take the content and to ignore the beginning and the end of the book. The option to accept "what" and to reject "when".

Actually, YOU have a choice:

1.) To keep believing certain events have already occurred when they havent, without one scintilla of **PROOF** that they have.

2.) Accept "soon" means something different to God, to whom a thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years.