The Holiness and Righteousness of God

[Clare73]

How does that work? How does that make anyone as holy and righteous as God is? It is one thing giving the Christian jargon, but it is quite another being able to explain what the jargon actually means in every day English.

It works the same way it worked for Abraham, God credited righteousness to him, and to God he was righteous, and what we are to God is all that matters.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just a thought here brother as I see what you're getting at in this thread but I fear it is going to be confusing for some..

God bless you.. Good teaching moment though, even for me. It isn't often we see ourselves as God sees us in our "clothed in Christ" state. We should see ourselves this way more often...

Of course it is. I knew it when I started the thread. I wanted to get beyond the idea that if just jargon and Bible quotes are given people would automatically understand what is meant. My view is that any actually don't. And when we use the jargon and Bible quotes to unconverted seekers, it just goes over their heads.

I am looking forward to responses to my statement that I am totally holy and righteous before God. That's going to to be fun - being accused of being proud and arrogant by some.

What I want is for people to understand what the Gospel of Christ is all about and how it really does make us totally holy and righteous before God, without having to follow a set of external rules encased in the Mosaic Law.

Actually, an interesting point is that if one totally complies with the Mosaic law from childhood to death, they are totally holy and righteous - as God is. But no one has ever attained it.

 

[Clare73]

If I was an unconverted seeker, I wouldn't know what that means.

I wouldn't say that to an unconverted seeker. . .I would talk about his standing before God at the present time, the consequences of that standing, and God's solution to that standing--sacrifice of Jesus Christ and one's trust in both him and the sacrifice.

 

[Clare73]

Correct.

Not according to the gospel.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It works the same way it worked for Abraham, God credited righteousness to him, and to God he was righteous, and what we are to God is all that matters.

How did that happen? And how would it happen for us?

 

[faithisthekey1]

That's half of the story. He took the guilt and penalty of our sin, but we still have sin in our mortal body, so there is something more that Christ has done to complete His finished work. The clue is, how do we become the righteousness of God when we still don't have any righteousness of our own?

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. Phil3:9

But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Hebrews 10:12-14

That's the best I can do I'm afraid. It was a one time sacrifice that covers all of a believers sins. Therefore, the believer is perfect in God's sight, though they are obviously not perfect in their flesh. God sees Christ's sacrifice for believers/His sacrifice that covers all their sins, not their obvious imperfections. I look forward to reading your explanation

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not according to the gospel.

Oh yes - according to the Gospel. You need to develop a better understanding of how the Gospel of Christ not only frees us from the guilt and penalty of sin, but actually frees us from our sin being viewed by God. This is the mystery of the Gospel - how that we remain sinners until the day we die, and yet being genuinely converted to Christ, God does not view us as sinner at all. Something important has taken place to enable that possible. Do you know what that was?

 

[Clare73]

Oh yes - according to the Gospel. You need to develop a better understanding of how the Gospel of Christ not only frees us from the guilt and penalty of sin, but actually frees us from our sin being viewed by God. This is the mystery of the Gospel - how that we remain sinners until the day we die, and yet being genuinely converted to Christ, God does not view us as sinner at all. Something important has taken place to enable that possible.
Do you know what that was?

My sin imputed to Christ who paid its penalty, removing it as far as the east it from the west, and Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed to me by God through faith.

 

[Clare73]

How did that happen? And how would it happen for us?

The same way it happens when I credit your friend's payment of your debt to me to your account.

Do I smell some hokey-pokey contra-NT doctrine coming on?

 

[Lost4words]

Only God is perfect.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. Phil3:9

But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Hebrews 10:12-14

That's the best I can do I'm afraid. It was a one time sacrifice that covers all of a believers sins. Therefore, the believer is perfect in God's sight, though they are obviously not perfect in their flesh. God sees Christ's sacrifice for believers, not their obvious imperfections. I look forward to reading your explanation

You have the right idea. You see the Gospel is very simple, so simple that we miss the simplicity of it. We want a more complicated explanation.

It is simply this: Jesus kept the Law perfectly. Therefore He totally complied with the covenant of works. He was, and is, as holy and righteous as God is. When He suffered on the cross, He substituted Himself for us. He didn't become a sinner, but He took the guilt and penalty that we should have received. Then He died and rose again to cement the promise that as He rose again from the dead, so shall we one day. Then, when we turned to Christ in faith, He gave us his perfect righteousness that totally covers our sinfulness. This means that God looks at us and sees the righteousness of Christ instead of our sinfulness. The righteousness of Christ so covers our sinfulness that God not only doesn't see our sin, but He refuses to even want to see it. This has been accomplished through our faith in Christ alone, without any attempt to comply with the righteousness demands of the Law.

But this doesn't mean that we choose to live as we please. No sir! We are bonded to Christ now, to walk in the light as He is in the light, to walk in the Spirit, and to work worthy of the great gift of righteousness that Christ has given us.

Now I've blown my cover!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My sin imputed to Christ who paid its penalty, removing it as far as the east it from the west, and Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed to me by God through faith.

Yep! You got it!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The same way it happens when I credit your friend's payment of your debt to me to your account.

Do I smell some hokey-pokey contra-NT doctrine coming on?

No, Not at all. I explained it all in my previous post to the other member. It is important to see that there are two actions in the work of Christ on the Cross. 1. Paying our debt of sin. 2. Giving us His righteousness as a free gift in response to our faith in Him.

Most see 1. as true, but have difficulty understanding the effects of 2. This is why many struggle with their sinfulness, because they have a lack of understanding of how completely righteous the free gift of the righteousness of Christ makes us - that God not only doesn't see our sinfulness, but refuses to even consider wanting to see it anymore. This is the beauty and wonder of the Gospel of Christ. We are set totally free from any bondage to the Law and free to follow Christ and to walk worthy of what Christ has done for us on the Cross.

 

[faithisthekey1]

You have the right idea. You see the Gospel is very simple, so simple that we miss the simplicity of it. We want a more complicated explanation.

It is simply this: Jesus kept the Law perfectly. Therefore He totally complied with the covenant of works. He was, and is, as holy and righteous as God is. When He suffered on the cross, He substituted Himself for us. He didn't become a sinner, but He took the guilt and penalty that we should have received. Then He died and rose again to cement the promise that as He rose again from the dead, so shall we one day. Then, when we turned to Christ in faith, He gave us his perfect righteousness that totally covers our sinfulness. This means that God looks at us and sees the righteousness of Christ instead of our sinfulness. The righteousness of Christ so covers our sinfulness that God not only doesn't see our sin, but He refuses to even want to see it. This has been accomplished through our faith in Christ alone, without any attempt to comply with the righteousness demands of the Law.

But this doesn't mean that we choose to live as we please. No sir! We are bonded to Christ now, to walk in the light as He is in the light, to walk in the Spirit, and to work worthy of the great gift of righteousness that Christ has given us.

Now I've blown my cover!

Good answer, I'm glad you've blown your cover!!
No, we cannot live as we choose, the new covenant does not allow for it:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

Note which comes first, the law is written in a believers mind and placed on their heart, meaning in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way, only because that has happened do you get a saviour from sin. When you err, you must be seered with a conscience, for you are going against how in your mind you know you should live, and in your heart you want to live. And you will have no rest, and no peace until you come before your heavenly Father and tell him you are sorry for how you acted. You don't tell God you are sorry out of fear of hell, but because you love him and want your peace back. God is not stupid, He made a perfect covenant, there are no holes in it

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Only God is perfect.

So, does that mean He is the only one who will be in heaven then? So how are we going to get there under those conditions?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Good answer, I'm glad you've blown your cover!!
No, we cannot live as we choose, the new covenant does not allow for it:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

Note which comes first, the law is written in a believers mind and placed on their heart, meaning in your mind you instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way, only because that has happened do you get a saviour from sin. When you err, you must be seered with a conscience, for you are going against how in your mind you know you should live, and in your heart you want to live. And you will have no rest, and no peace until you come before your heavenly Father and tell him you are sorry for how you acted. You don't tell God you are sorry out of fear of hell, but because you love him and want your peace back. God is not stupid, He made a perfect covenant, there are no holes in it

Well said!

 

[fhansen]

Oh, now we have narrowed it to the gospel. . .love of God and Jesus Christ.

Narrowed it to the gospel? Sheez, Clare, what else would we be talking of around here-and what other kind of love!!??

That's a whole other ballgame.
Because that means obedience, or it's not love (John 14:15).

So it's not just love that saves, it's love to God and Jesus which is obedience to their commands that saves (John 14:21).

They're inseparable. So, again, here's how it works:
If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children. St Basil of Cesarea

And so we can probably better understand the following church teaching:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

 

[Lost4words]

So, does that mean He is the only one who will be in heaven then? So how are we going to get there under those conditions?

By following Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

What does that mean? It's one thing quoting a verse of Scripture, which is correct by the way, but it is quite another to expound it to show what it actually means for us.

Its self explanatory.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

By following Jesus.

Thousands of people followed Jesus during His earthly ministry but only 120 ended up in the upper room on the Day of Pentecost. Judas followed Jesus as well and look what happened to him. Just following Jesus is not enough. One must be genuinely born again by being converted to Him and only the Holy Spirit can do that in a person.