The Holiness and Righteousness of God

[BobRyan]

Proverbs 10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Amen to that !

 

[Christian7777777]

Amen to that !

Again in answer to your words, that, " that point is irrefutable"



2 Timothy 4:I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[BobRyan]

Think for a moment, do you really believe that flesh comes to worship before the Lord on one day ?

The Lord sought Spirit to worship Him, on each and every day, for ever.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

1. We already worship God every day - "in the flesh" (as in "real life") .
2. And we already come before God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" to worship -- "in the flesh" (as in "in real life").
And many people gather for worship each week on a day that is not the Bible Sabbath.

So there is nothing about having an actual body that means that sort of thing can't happen.

1 Cor 15 says there are two actual physical bodies
2 Cor 5:1-6 says there are two actual physical bodies - one in this life... one in the next.

3. But more to the point is that the rules of Exegesis don't allow us to assume that Isaiah and his readers would have assumed that there could not possibly be such a thing as real persons with real bodies coming before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath".

=====================

That point is irrefutable

Proverbs 10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Amen to that !

Again in answer to your words, that, " that point is irrefutable"
2 Timothy 4:I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

does not say the Bible was "wrong" to point out that the Christians were doing Gospel preaching in worship service "every Sabbath" Act 18:4 and that the Bible was "wrong" to point out that the "gentiles" were asking for "more Gospel preaching" to be done "the next Sabbath" Acts 13.

No wonder we have "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth in Is 66:22-23.

One cannot simply assume we believe those scriptures to be "false doctrine"

 

[Christian7777777]

1. We already worship God every day - "in the flesh" (as in "real life") .
2. And we already come before God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" to worship -- "in the flesh" (as in "in real life").
And many people gather for worship each week on a day that is not the Bible Sabbath.

So there is nothing about having an actual body that means that sort of thing can't happen.

1 Cor 15 says there are two actual physical bodies

Worshipping in the Spirit is what God sought, worshipping in the flesh was not it ( flesh is not the truth, not the Spirit of truth)..



John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



Sabbath to sabbath is perpetually, the same as Jesus has entered into His rest and glory, so we labour to enter into the same, ( to perpetually rest in the Spirit not after the flesh)


There is a difference between the flesh and the Spirit, as God was justified in the flesh then received up to glory ( in the Spirit) as there is no trust in the flesh it has to now be trust in the Spirit.







You are still in the dark a bit here, regarding 1 Corinthians 15, let me enlighten you again here.







1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:




2 Corinthians 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.






2 Corinthians 13:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.




Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.






2 Corinthians 13:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.




Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.








2 Corinthians 13:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.




1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.







1 Corinthians 13:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.




1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.







2 Corinthians 13:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.




James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.







2 Corinthians 13:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.



James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.







2 Corinthians 13:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.





1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.


Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[BobRyan]

Worshipping in the Spirit is what God sought,

God is not talking about killing ourselves...

We worship God in spirit and truth every day... in real life.

So "yes" Isaiah and his readers would have known about "coming before God to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23 even if it was for all eternity after the cross as Is 66:22-23 predicts in the New Earth.

1 Cor 14 is another great example of "in the spirit" is not talking about dying and losing our physical body.

2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, exhortation, and consolation.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the mind also. 16 For otherwise, if you bless God in the spirit only, how will the one who occupies the place of the outsider know to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.

We are talking about real worship, in real life --- on real earth

 

[Christian7777777]

God is not talking about killing ourselves...

We worship God in spirit and truth every day... in real life.

So "yes" Isaiah and his readers would have known about "coming before God to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23 even if it was for all eternity after the cross as Is 66:22-23 predicts in the New Earth.



We are talking about real worship, in real life --- on real earth

Yes your way is to chop off all words but eight words of what I had spoken about.



Christ is the Spirit, to serve God ( worship ) was seen in Jesus from day to day.


As told also, ( keeping on the thought about what WORSHIP IS) it is to worship God,m not in a particular place, not in the mountain nor yet at J ( those ways are not to worship in Spirit of Truth)erusaslem


John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.


John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



Follow down now to the next verses about WORSHIP ( and how it is done in Spirit)

We hear how God dwells not in temples made with hands ( earthly places of sabbath worship)

God needs no such thing from us, as He made all things, Gd seeks us to seek Him ( this is to worship in the Spirit within us)....


Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:



Next example from the Apostles, is not at all against the ways and words of Christ and the Apostles, it is in the only examples we actually see, the WORSHIP is believing the hope of the resurrection of Christ, and through that is a good conscience void of offence toward God and man..




Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.



Further showing how it is not by previous ways ( of the flesh) is that the circumcision ( which was part of the law abolished) is to worship God in the Spirit ( all previous ways if the flesh cannot be ways to any longer worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth)

Anyone believing in circumcision and any previous way to worship God ( in their flesh ways for praise and glory of men) are debtors to do THE WHOLE LAW..


Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.





Do you think you will support from one new moon to another, the necessity of sabbath days, or of judging what men should eat in respect o which meat is clean and which is unclean ? You are ended from that and only speak on for me to reveal it the more.



Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:



1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[BobRyan]

No wonder we have "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth in Is 66:22-23.

One cannot simply assume we believe those scriptures to be "false doctrine"

Yes your way is to chop off all words but eight words of what I had spoken about.

??

I like to show how early in the pros written, a broad assumption/assertion is proposed ... creating a premise for the rest of what follows which has some accuracy issue apparent to the reader.

We hear how God dwells not in temples made with hands

And still - we attend worship service each week. So did Jesus according to the Gospels and so did Paul according to Acts 18:4

 

[BobRyan]

Do you think you will support from one new moon to another, the necessity of sabbath days, or of judging what men should eat

I think I will show the obvious point from Is 66:22-23 that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "ALL MANKIND" will be coming before God to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath. And that this fact is incredibly obvious from the text itself ... EVEN if one "does not like it".

 

[Christian7777777]

And still - we attend worship service each week. So did Jesus according to the Gospels and so did Paul according to Acts 18:4

Acts 18:44 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.




Remember the outcome of that attending the worship each week ( for Jesus and for Paul)

If your outcome is the opposite, how you do not share in any of these sufferings and afflictions of Christ ( as the Apostles and as Christ did on those sabbath days) how are you in union with them..



Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Luke 4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

 

[Christian7777777]

I think I will show the obvious point from Is 66:22-23 that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "ALL MANKIND" will be coming before God to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath. And that this fact is incredibly obvious from the text itself ... EVEN if one "does not like it".

Yes, apart from the change, of observing times, months and new moons and sabbaths ( this is even more obvious for all)..


Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



Mankind is before God as the body is of Christ, and Christ has gone into Heaven for us as the forerunner..


Hebrews 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

Good text it shows that each Sabbath as they preached the Gospel both gentiles and Jews were being convinced to accept Christ as the Messiah of scripture - and yet they are there - "every Sabbath".

There is nothing there about getting folks to stop worshipping "every Sabbath" and there is no "come join us in our service tomorrow at such-and-such a place". Rather we have "every Sabbath" services, Gospel preaching and people are being convinced to join - still attending "every Sabbath".

There are "Sabbath after Sabbath" services mentioned in Acts and there are gentiles "asking for more gospel preaching to be presented on the NEXT Sabbath" and there is "every Sabbath" gospel preaching -- all of it is mentioned in Acts. But what you don't find is:

• "gentiles ask for gospel preaching the NEXT week-day-one"
• "week-day-one after week-day-one gospel preaching"
• "every week-day-one gospel preaching"

Nope - not mentioned even once.

No wonder Is 66:22-23 tells us that for all eternity after the cross -- in the New Earth, ALL mankind comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

A great text condemning pagan holy days. Not condemning scripture. (Had you read more context)

Paul writes to the gentile church in Galatia (church of former pagans that then turn to be Christian)

Gal 4:
6 ... you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods.

(that would be paganism)​

9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God,

(that would be Christianity)​

how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again?

(that would be condemning the "return again" back to pagan practices" - rather than a condemnation of the Word of God as if God's Word is another form of paganism)​

10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

(that would be pagan holy days ... the observance of even one is being condemned)​

=====================================

Interesting that you would want the focus on "that text".

By contrast to the Gal 4 condemnation of observing even one pagan day -- we look at Rom 14 speaking of the Bible APPROVED annual holy days of Lev 23 and defending ALL of them such that the condemnation of even ONE of them is an act of judging that Paul condemns in Rom 14.

5 One person observes one day over another, another observes every day. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord,
...
10 But as for you, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or you as well, why do you regard your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all appear before the judgment seat of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

A great example of Paul not condemning the Word of God (had you included more context) but instead condemning the practice of "making stuff up" via man-made tradition as well as condemning the same judgment Christ condemns before the cross ever happens in Matt 7 "judge not".

Col 2 - condemning tradition and "making stuff up"

8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ. ..

16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Take care that no one keeps defrauding you of your prize by delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding firmly to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of man? 23 These are matters which do have the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
​

No wonder Is 66:22-23 reminds us that for all eternity after the cross -- in the New Earth, ALL mankind comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"

 

[Christian7777777]

Good text it shows that each Sabbath as they preached the Gospel both gentiles and Jews were being convinced to accept Christ as the Messiah of scripture - and yet they are there - "every Sabbath".

There is nothing there about getting folks to stop worshipping "every Sabbath" and there is no "come join us in our service tomorrow at such-and-such a place". Rather we have "every Sabbath" services, Gospel preaching and people are being convinced to join - still attending "every Sabbath".

In the text it shows the necessity of reasoning with Jews who worship in the flesh, and when challenged ( as they are flesh and not Spirit) tried to kill ( and later killed) their own Messiah, and the Apostles of the Messiah.

 

[Christian7777777]

A great text condemning pagan holy days. Not condemning scripture. (Had you read more context)

Paul writes to the gentile church in Galatia (church of former pagans that then turn to be Christian)

Gal 4:
6 ... you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods.

(that would be paganism)​

9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God,

(that would be Christianity)​

how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again?

(that would be condemning the "return again" back to pagan practices" - rather than a condemnation of the Word of God as if God's Word is another form of paganism)​

10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

(that would be pagan holy days ... the observance of even one is being condemned)​

=====================================

Interesting that you would want the focus on "that text".

By contrast to the Gal 4 condemnation of observing even one pagan day -- we look at Rom 14 speaking of the Bible APPROVED annual holy days of Lev 23 and defending ALL of them such that the condemnation of even ONE of them is an act of judging that Paul condemns in Rom 14.

5 One person observes one day over another, another observes every day. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord,
...
10 But as for you, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or you as well, why do you regard your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all appear before the judgment seat of God.

All days are the same for Jesus..

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Christian7777777]

A great example of Paul not condemning the Word of God (had you included more context) but instead condemning the practice of "making stuff up" via man-made tradition as well as condemning the same judgment Christ condemns before the cross ever happens in Matt 7 "judge not".

Col 2 - condemning tradition and "making stuff up"

8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ. ..

16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Take care that no one keeps defrauding you of your prize by delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding firmly to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of man? 23 These are matters which do have the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
​

No wonder Is 66:22-23 reminds us that for all eternity after the cross -- in the New Earth, ALL mankind comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"

Sabbath helped nothing for the men of Israel, they did and do go to God each sabbath, but that is not of faith.

Bearing the reproach of the Lord is faith, it is going to Him now ( while others seek through what never got near to God)

Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.