The Holiness and Righteousness of God

fhansen

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What is missing in man is belief in the person and atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for remission of their sin. . .which belief saves.
That is the gospel.

Love of neighbor does not save unbelievers.

Those who believe live in love of God and love of neighbor.

It is the belief that saves, not its works.
Its works sanctify the already saved.
No, it's love that saves, belief is the vehicle to that love because its the vehicle, or the means, to our union with God who is love. Faith, alone, won't cut it. It's impossible to obey the greatest commandments without faith, apart from God IOW, but as Augustine said,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

Or Paul,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2
 
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Clare73

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No, it's love that saves, belief is the vehicle to that love
That's not the NT gospel, that is your gospel.

Many love, and love well, without faith.
And they are not saved.
because its the vehicle, or the means, to our union with God who is love. Faith, alone, won't cut it. It's impossible to obey the greatest commandments without faith, apart from God IOW, but as Augustine said,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

Or Paul,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2
 
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fhansen

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That's not the NT gospel, that is your gospel.

Many love, and love well, without faith.
And they are not saved.
Nope, not if they love as per the greatest commandments anyway.

"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Luke 10:25-28

That's Jesus's gospel. With faith, in communion with Him, all things are possible.
 
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How do you get to Heaven when the Kingdom of God (Heaven) gets to us..


Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Jesus didn't mean that the kingdom of God was actually within the person of the Pharisees. What He meant was that the fact of His presence with them showed that the kingdom of God is right there with them. Trying to equate this verse with the indwelling Holy Spirit within believers is forcing a meaning that isn't there.

It doesn't address the fact that to be accepted by God and getting to heaven we need to be as holy and righteous as He is. He will accept no less than absolute, faultless purity.
 
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If you look at the Kings and Prophets in the Bible, many sinned. The saved ones are the ones who repented and turned from sin to God. We have a very merciful Savior who will forgive us of our sins, but true repentance means being truly sorry and turn from sin to obedience to God. Peter denied Christ three times, but was sorrowful and repented, Jesus forgave him. Judas, had he repented, Jesus would have forgiven him too, but he lived with his sin, the devil entered him and never left. There are some very important lessons in scriptures. Should we try to be holy and perfect? Yes. Can we do it without the help of the Holy Spirit? No. John 14:15-18. Is keeping the law of God meant to be burdensome ? No. 1 John 5:3. Do we keep God’s laws to be saved? No, we keep because we love. John 14:15, John 15:10 God bless
Paul rightly points out that because no one can keep the Law, everyone has gone astray, and there is none righteous, no, not one. Absolute holiness means that one has to have kept the Law faultlessly from the age of accounting to the day he dies. One single fault in the keeping of the Law renders a person lawless and therefore unacceptable to God.
 
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Clare73

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Nope, not if they love as per the greatest commandments anyway.
Oh, now we have narrowed it to the gospel. . .love of God and Jesus Christ.

That's a whole other ballgame.
Because that means obedience, or it's not love (John 14:15).

So it's not just love that saves, it's love to God and Jesus which is obedience to their commands that saves (John 14:21).
"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Luke 10:25-28

That's Jesus's gospel. With faith, in communion with Him, all things are possible.
 
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Thats why Paul wrote 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification/holiness, and redemption:
What does that mean? It's one thing quoting a verse of Scripture, which is correct by the way, but it is quite another to expound it to show what it actually means for us.
 
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Well, you certainly weren’t created to be a sinner, to be imperfect, IOW. And remember that the purpose of our faith is for God to make us holy, who He created us to be, now that we’ve entered union with Him through faith.

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.”
Jer 31:33-34

“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
” Phil 3:9

Apart from Me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.” P 4:13

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

We’re to be with God, by opening the door when He knocks. From there our job is to trust, to remain in and cooperate with Him in His work. He’ll get it done. We simply weren’t made to go it alone, even if Adam had thought otherwise. Union with God in a relationship of faith, hope, and, ultimately and most importantly, love, is the heart of the New Covenant.
What you seem to be suggesting is that if we choose to cooperate with God and do things to make ourselves acceptable to Him, He might be lenient toward us and relax his absolute standard to allow us into heaven. But the truth is that God is not a lenient Judge. When we come up before Him on the day of Judgment He is going to judge us on his absolute and impeccable standard of holiness and righteousness. But we know that we will not come up to that standard, so what will we do to be saved? When Peter heard Jesus express His absolute standard of righteousness, he cried, "Who then can be saved?"
 
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And that is what imputation of the righteousness of Jesus Christ in justification by faith is for
(Romans 5:16-19; 1 Corinthians 1:30), as in Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3).
How does that work? How does that make anyone as holy and righteous as God is? It is one thing giving the Christian jargon, but it is quite another being able to explain what the jargon actually means in every day English.
 
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I started the thread because I wanted to see if people truly realise God's absolute standard of holiness in order to be admitted into heaven, and how anyone can be saved in the light of God's impeccable justice. God is not going to relax His standards of holiness for anyone, and there is nothing we can humanly do to change that.

I know all the Christian jargon and agree with what has been said in response when justification by faith and imputation of righteousness has been said here, but often the jargon is said assuming that people know what it actually means. So I have taken the position that I don't know what the jargon means, so that instead of just quoting verses and talking jargon, people explain what they mean by the quotes and the jargon.

In fact, a seeker wanting to find out more about Christianity would not have the background to understand the quotes and jargon so it would go right over their heads. This makes a lot of our evangelism efforts a waste of time and energy because most wouldn't understand what we are talking about.

So, my starting point in my OP was that God is impeccably holy and righteous and we are not, so how are we going to get into heaven if we need to be as holy as God is in order to qualify?
 
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Looking at the kings, their wisdom is not perfect, so a greater more perfect than Solomon came to hear, which the law could never perfect.




Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.



Hebrews 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.




All know Peter denied three times, but do all know Peter then confessed Christ three times, and the third occasion that Jesus showed Himself to His disciples...


John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.






Judas had his future told before it all occured..




Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Psalm 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.




That judgment of Judas goes on all men of perdition..


John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
How does this explain how we can get into heaven when God requires that we be as holy as He is? If I was a seeker after Christianity, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about in your quotes.

The truth is that I will get into heaven because I am totally holy and righteous. How would you explain that?
 
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faithisthekey1

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I started the thread because I wanted to see if people truly realise God's absolute standard of holiness in order to be admitted into heaven, and how anyone can be saved in the light of God's impeccable justice. God is not going to relax His standards of holiness for anyone, and there is nothing we can humanly do to change that.

I know all the Christian jargon and agree with what has been said in response when justification by faith and imputation of righteousness has been said here, but often the jargon is said assuming that people know what it actually means. So I have taken the position that I don't know what the jargon means, so that instead of just quoting verses and talking jargon, people explain what they mean by the quotes and the jargon.

In fact, a seeker wanting to find out more about Christianity would not have the background to understand the quotes and jargon so it would go right over their heads. This makes a lot of our evangelism efforts a waste of time and energy because most wouldn't understand what we are talking about.

So, my starting point in my OP was that God is impeccably holy and righteous and we are not, so how are we going to get into heaven if we need to be as holy as God is in order to qualify?
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2Corinthians5:21
I would say we do not have a righteousness of our own, but one of faith in Christ. He took our sins upon himself, to leave us spotless and without blemish in God's sight
 
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Filthy frags need to be changed/exchanged..


Isaiah 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
What if a seeker says that he cannot do what is required and that all he can look forward to, according to your Scripture quote, that he will be devoured with the sword? (whatever that means).
 
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So sinners, in fact, will be entering heaven after all despite what Scripture says? We can be simultaneously just while sinful? Somehow?
Sinners won't be entering heaven, because only those who are as holy as God is will get there. For some that is a terrifying prospect, but for others it isn't. So what makes the difference?
 
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Salvation is spoken of as past, present, and future, yet to be worked out as one perserveres together with He who works in us. We won't be perfectly sinless in this life and yet we will be sinless prior to heaven. We show that we don't even really want to see God to the extent that we're still attracted to sin, that our gaze is still averted to lesser, created things IOW. And so I doubt we'd even be capable until our hearts are pure.

Purity/holiness/righteousness are attained to the extent that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and oiut neighbor as ourselves. That is the mark of perfection for man-and He'll get us there. It just begins with a little faith.
But the truth is that we can't attain it. That's the problem. Paul pointed that out in Romans. Yet, as I said, I am totally holy and righteous without even trying to love God more or to follow any law, so how do you think I can say that?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Just a thought here brother as I see what you're getting at in this thread but I fear it is going to be confusing for some..

God bless you.. :) Good teaching moment though, even for me. It isn't often we see ourselves as God sees us in our "clothed in Christ" state. We should see ourselves this way more often...
 
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God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2Corinthians5:21
I would say we do not have a righteousness of our own, but one of faith in Christ. He took our sins upon himself, to leave us spotless and without blemish in God's sight
That's half of the story. He took the guilt and penalty of our sin, but we still have sin in our mortal body, so there is something more that Christ has done to complete His finished work. The clue is, how do we become the righteousness of God when we still don't have any righteousness of our own?
 
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