The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Guojing]

Hi ewq,

There is no Body of Christ in the tribulation. That purpose will have been completed and taken t its eternal setting in glory on the Lord`s own throne. (Rev. 3: 21) There they will judge the world system and fallen angels, (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3).

Israel is in the trib, and so are the nations. Any that turn to God are people who are looking for Israel`s Messiah, the ruler to come. Their testimony is of the King of the nations, (Rev. 15: 3)

The woman is Israel and has the testimony that the 2 witnesses gave to them. (Rev. 12: 17)

So how did Jesus reveal about the Body of Christ in the Olivet discourse when He only revealed that revelation to the Apostle Paul many years later? (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

You are a mid acts dispensationalist?

 

[keras]

Of course it does. Didn't I already prove it by citing a verse saying angels come with Christ at his second coming? The 6th seal is describing that same second coming so yes, a great number of "stars" (angels) will be seen coming from the sky with Jesus.

The Sixth Seal is in no way the Return of Jesus.
He sends His fiery wrath; Amos 1, Psalms 11:4-6

All of Revelation from Rev 7 to 19:11 has to happen before that glorious day.

 

[Acts29]

The False Teaching of what happens at the Rapture.

I believe people have been taught through preaching, books, videos etc a wrong view of what happens at the Rapture.

This false teaching says that when people are caught away to meet the Lord others will see them rise in the air, and great devastation will happen. Planes will fall out of the sky as Christian pilots are taken away, plus cars and buses, trains etc will all crash because their drivers were believers and were caught away.

People are told that unbelievers will be shocked and horrified as they realise they have been `left behind.`

None of this is a true picture, I believe, of what will really happen at the rapture.

The Truth of what will happen at the Rapture.

God`s word says that we will see that Day, (of the Lord) approaching and thus get together more.

`...exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

I believe the Holy Spirit will be stirring our spirits expectantly so that we know the time is very close.

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear...` (Heb. 9: 28)

Have you ever thought about this?

You are not far off. The coming of Jesus will not be a surprise at all to His people.

 

[JulieB67]

It is to the Body He tells that He will come for them before the Day of the Lord, (& trib,).

What scripture is that? If we read both letters/books to the Thessalonians Paul very specifially states the oppostite.

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I Thessalonians 4:18 "Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

He then has to write a letter to clear up their confusion on the subject -our gathering back to Christ/day of the Lord.

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," Paul is talking about our gathering back to him. So he is talking to Christians at this point.

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

This is the very same subject that Paul is talking about in 1st Thessalonians -our gathering back to him which comes at the "day of the Lord".

In verse 2 of this chapter he even tells them not to be shaken in mind (confused) as even by their first letter -1st Thessalonians that the day of Christ is at hand. He says that day won't happen until certain events fold. Paul can't be any more clear on this subject. Our gathering back to him won't happen until these events happen -"falling away (apostasy) and the son of perdition sits on the throne proclaiming to be God. People have to be prepared for this, especially Christians. Paul says we have to have the full armour to be able to "stand in that evil day" That's where Revelation 12 comes in,

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Christ says those that endure to the end, the same shall be saved. And he tells us that in our patience we must possess our souls. It's that important.

We have to wait on the true Christ and not fall away to the fake. Christ has foretold us "all" things. Paul again is a second witness to his teachings. The reason Christ mentions he comes an at hour that most do not expect is because many will believe he will have already returned. They will be thinking "peace and safety" and then bam he returns.

while to Israel the trumpets are to do with their Feast of Trumpets

Paul was talking to Christians when he stated Christ returns at the last trump/trump of God in the letters to the Corinthians as well as the Thessalonians.

I believed once as you did as well. But it's not biblical.

 

[Douggg]

Do I have this right? You think the entire cosmos will split and the starry universe will go down below our horizon.

A window will open, just like the curtains pulled back on a stage. The curtain is the stars and the universe of the second heaven.

And the world will see Jesus, sickle in hand, from Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle

 

[Douggg]

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

The world saying peace and safety will be shattered, and the day of the Lord begins.

During the day of the Lord, the wrath of God will be poured out in the bowls of God's wrath.

Read a little further down in 1Thessaalonins5.... The rapture is in verse 10.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

In 2Thessalonians2, Paul is giving additional information of when the Day of the Lord begins, in addition to the peace and safety being shattered.
.
It will be preceded by two events.

1. the great falling away
2. the revealing of the man of sin

_____________________________

The peace and safety will be because the world will think it has entered the messianic age. With the Antichrist as the messiah. Also creating the great falling away from Christianity.

Then suddenly and unexpectedly the Antichrist goes int the temple, sits, claims to be God. Shattering the peace and safety feeling. And the Day of the Lord begins, when God's wrath will be poured out.

The rapture will take place before the Antichrist does his audacious act. What we don't know is how far before.

 

[Guojing]

The rapture will take place before the Antichrist does his audacious act. What we don't know is how far before.

Ahh you are a Mid-trib?

 

[Matt5]

You are taking 1 Thessalonians 5:3 completely out of context. It has absolutely nothing to do with the world saying peace and safety in terms of the world being a peaceful and safe place.

When Paul indicated that they will say "peace and safety" and then sudden destruction would come upon them, the context is about those who think they are SPIRITUALLY at peace and safe when in reality they are SPIRITUALLY sleeping and unaware of their SPIRITUAL status of being in SPIRITUAL darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Notice how Paul contrasts believers who are not in darkness spiritually and are instead "the children of light" with unbelievers who are in spiritual darkness. And he said "let us not sleep, as do others; but les us watch and be sober". The others, which are unbelievers, are spiritually sleeping and not watching what is going on spiritually which results in them being in spiritual darkness. They are deceived and think that they are at peace and are safe spiritually, but they are not. Because of their rejection of Christ they are not at peace and safe spiritually at all. If they don't repent before Christ comes then they will have "sudden destruction" come down upon them from which "they shall not escape".

The verse you quote says nothing about spiritual darkness. It says "darkness." What is just plain old darkness minus the spirituality part?

 

[Douggg]

Ahh you are a Mid-trib?

I am anytime rapture view. Anytime between right now and the day the Antichrist commits his audacious act.

Differently,
Mid-trib limits the rapture to the middle of the 7 years.
Pre-trib limits the rapture to before the 7 years begin.
Post-trib limits the rapture to the day that Jesus returns.

 

[JulieB67]

Read a little further down in 1Thessaalonins5.... The rapture is in verse 10.

I have read. Again, Paul has to write a second letter to clear up the confusion of this first one. And yet people are still confused to this day. Paul is talking to Christians period. And when our gathering back to him happens.

In 2Thessalonians2, Paul is giving additional information of when the Day of the Lord begins, in addition to the peace and safety being shattered.

The subject is our gathering back to Christ which brings in the day of our Lord. Paul states very clearly that "day" shall not happen until the falling away and the son of perdition sitting on the throne... Meaning we aren't gathering back to him until these events happen period. He tells us to not be deceived by any means on this subject. I choose to heed this warning and believe him when he states it's not happening until then.

 

[Douggg]

have read. Again, Paul has to write a second letter to clear up the confusion of this first one. And yet people are still confused to this day. Paul is talking to Christians period. And when our gathering back to him happens

The first letter wasn't confusing. The circumstances of the Thessalonians, later, was leading them to think that the day of the Lord had already begun. So Paul wrote the second letter to assure them that the day of the Lord had not begun.

 

[JulieB67]

The first letter wasn't confusing. The circumstances of the Thessalonians, later, was leading them to think that the day of the Lord had already begun. So Paul wrote the second letter to assure them that the day of the Lord had not begun.

They were shaken in mind and troubled. They thought that our gathering back to Christ/day of the Lord was -at hand. Any moment. Paul writes a second letter to clear up their confusion and says that day shall not happen, meaning our gathering back to him will not happen until certain events unfold.

 

[Douggg]

Exactly. They thought that our gathering back to Christ/day of the Lord was -at hand. Any moment. Paul writes a second letter to clear up their confusion and says that day shall not happen....

Paul, in his second letter, wrote concerning three issues...

the coming of Jesus....
a. for the rapture (the gathering unto him)
b. His second coming(to destroy the reveal man of sin, as Paul reveals in verse 8)

the beginning of the Day of the Lord (during which, the revealed man of sin will be destroyed)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Take out the "by" in blue and it would one event happening at the same time. But with the "by" there, it is indicating two events. Jesus will come for the rapture event. Then later, after the man of sin is revealed, Jesus will come to destroy him.

 

[JulieB67]

Take out the "by" in blue and it would one event happening at the same time. But with the "by" there, it is indicating two events. Jesus will come for the rapture event. Then later, after the man of sin is revealed, Jesus will come to destroy him.

You are splitting up one event. The two happen simultaneously. Our gathering back to him happens at the coming of Christ. We can't gather back unless he's coming. And that's the subject from 1st Thess 4/5 and he brings up the subject again in 2nd Thessalonians.

 

[Douggg]

You are splitting up one event. The two happen simultaneously. Our gathering back to him happens at the coming of Christ. We can't gather back unless he's coming. And that's the subject from 1st Thess 4/5 and he brings up the subject again in 2nd Thessalonians.

Julie, you are putting the church in the great tribulation when God's wrath will be poured out onto the world.

In 1Thessalonians5:9-11, the church is not appointed to God's wrath.

 

[JulieB67]

Julie, you are putting the church in the great tribulation when God's wrath will be poured out onto the world

Doug, God's wrath is not the same thing as being in the tribulation.

ETA that God will protect his own.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The verse you quote says nothing about spiritual darkness. It says "darkness." What is just plain old darkness minus the spirituality part?

What other kind of darkness is it besides spiritual darkness? In contrast to the ones that Paul says are in darkness he calls believers "the children of light". What kind of light do you think he was talking about?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The rapture to heaven is God's way of removing Christians from the world to not have to go through the time of God's wrath which will be poured out during the great tribulation.

If it's a "rapture to heaven", then what is the point of meeting the Lord "in the air"? Why wouldn't we just be taken straight to heaven to meet Him there?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Paul, in his second letter, wrote concerning three issues...

the coming of Jesus....
a. for the rapture (the gathering unto him)
b. His second coming(to destroy the reveal man of sin, as Paul reveals in verse 8)

the beginning of the Day of the Lord (during which, the revealed man of sin will be destroyed)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Take out the "by" in blue and it would one event happening at the same time. But with the "by" there, it is indicating two events. Jesus will come for the rapture event. Then later, after the man of sin is revealed, Jesus will come to destroy him.

No, Paul was not referring to two completely different events there. He was clearly talking about our gathering together unto Him that will happen at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Just like Paul wrote about here:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice how the gathering unto Christ takes place at "the coming of the Lord"? Only doctrinal bias would cause someone to separate the gathering unto Him and His coming into two completely separate events.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Julie, you are putting the church in the great tribulation when God's wrath will be poured out onto the world.

In 1Thessalonians5:9-11, the church is not appointed to God's wrath.

God is perfectly capable of protecting us from His wrath while we're on the earth. The only point at which we'd need to be taken off of the earth is when the final wrath of God comes down, which Paul describes in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3. Paul indicated that no one will escape the "sudden destruction" that will come down when Christ returns. No unbelievers will, anyway. Believers will escape it by way of being caught up to meet Christ in the air at His return.