Trans woman beaten

[ThatRobGuy]

True. Yet perhaps was isn't working, wasn't working prior to their incarceration. Bad parenting, schooling, liberal, every one is a winner teaching, and you have a right to express yourself by burning, pillaging and plundering. It's not your fault you're an idiot and a thief. They have more money than you so they should give you some. Forget the job, vote for me we'll take money from working folk and give to you. We'll just raise taxes. Ok? Don't forget to vote. Love you brother, stay out of my neighborhood.
Couldn't help myself. It just came out.

I think there's a difference between a coddling sort of "it isn't your fault your a thief, it's all systemic injustice that's the culprit" mentality like that within some of the far left, and a more pragmatic approach of "this action was your fault, but we're going to get to the root of the problem and give you tools and training to fix it" is a better approach.

What we know doesn't work, is "up against the wall scumbag!!! eyes forward!!!", and tossing someone into a "lion's den" so to speak.


I would liken it to drug related or property crime matters.

I can rightfully say that anyone choosing to rob a bank is making a dumb decision. The question becomes, what's the best approach to setting them back on the right path. I don't think it's a "fight for survival, assert your own aggression or have your food stolen and get sodomized in the shower room" environment.

I think it has to be a more human approach.

Otherwise you'll just end up with a more hostile violent person at the end of the sentence than the person who went in. At the end of the day, incarceration should still achieve the goal of making the person better, not worse.

 

[Robban]

Pretty much...

Our prison systems aren't about rehabilitation like they should be, they're about profit motives, and satisfying the "punishment lust" of people who somehow get a warm fuzzy feeling about knowing that "the guy who robbed the bank is living in misery and eating food I wouldn't even feed my dog" rather than hoping for "the guy who robbed the bank is getting counseling and taking classes to become an electrician"

If one really wants a person who engaged in crimes to "learn the error of their ways", and become "a productive member of society", they need to realize that the environment has to be conducive to learning and productivity.

As opposed to having them sleeping on a rotted out cot and eating sub-par slop every day to keep costs low so that the prison corp can remain profitable.

The mentality of prison sentance as a punishment is questionable.

If for example A steals from B and is caught and is proven guilty,

A should return what he has stolen or compensate the value of what was stolen plus extra costs that arose from the theft.

If A cannot repay then he should work for B until B has been compensated.

Not a punishment just plain justice.

Obviously a simple example, It would be a little more complicated

as one goes the ladder, so to speak.

But it should not be regarded as a punishment.

The code of Jewish Law does not apply but jailsentance is nowhere to be found in said law.

It is reckoned as torture.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That would weed out the people trying to exploit the legislative component.

No solution is going to be "perfect"...and I don't think prison should be "perfect" for the person who's in there. Otherwise there would be no incentive to leave. But it can be a lot better and more productive/constructive that what it currently is.

At the end of the day, it is still a restriction of privileges and freedoms.

I wouldn't advocate putting someone up in a 5-star hotel room as a valid form of imprisonment. But at the same time, I don't think dehumanizing or being forced to make the choice of "join the Aryan Brotherhood, or get raped in the shower" is a conducive environment for progress either.

There's gotta be a middle ground there somewhere.

Until we can fix the prison system itself, Trans-women in a women's prison or men's prison is putting someone at a disadvantage and "at risk"...which is why I recommended breaking out the housing arrangements into a few more layers.

From what I understand about the trans population in prisons (and I've never really asked, but have been inside these facilities before) it's actually quite small.

You have men who for various reasons (paraphilia or forced or coerced) act like women in prison. I don't think these are genuine trans people but honestly, I don't know how anyone would know.

Then there are strictly psychopathic opportunists who have a MO that is sexual in nature. These people seem to be part of the group who suddenly declare themselves women when laws change. They will be mixed in with genuine trans people.

Here's another problem though....being trans has nothing to do with who you are attracted to sexually.

Apparently, one can simply choose to no longer be trans anymore. That's a real explanation of how it works.

We aren't just talking about a problem without a good solution...we're talking about a problem that is self imposed

It would be like wearing an eyepatch, claiming that others must recognize me as a cyclops. Then the next day I take off the eyepatch to see depth better. If I throw it back on in prison....am I entitled to different treatment?

Part of this stems from a lack of evidence/understanding the problem.

Trans activists like to say we don't need to understand....just accept it. I can accept it...but the moment that demands for laws and policies that affect the lives of millions...we need to understand it to proceed with a goal in mind.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The mentality of prison sentance as a punishment is questionable.

If for example A steals from B and is caught and is proven guilty,

A should return what he has stolen or compensate the value of what was stolen plus extra costs that arose from the theft.

If A cannot repay then he should work for B until B has been compensated.

Not a punishment just plain justice.

Obviously a simple example, It would be a little more complicated

as one goes the ladder, so to speak.

But it should not be regarded as a punishment.

The code of Jewish Law does not apply but jailsentance is nowhere to be found in said law.

It is reckoned as torture.

Are you talking about the same Jewish laws that condone slavery?

 

[coffee4u]

And many are in for non-violent crimes of various sorts and really don't need to be in there. They could be penalized in some other way to pay for whatever crimes they did.

Prisons for the most part should focus more on rehabilitation and education. More privileges for those doing the right thing while in jail. It should also be as safe as possible. Obviously safety cannot be guaranteed given that jails are for criminals but it should still rank up there highly. Woman should not be placed in with men and men should not be placed in with women is a very basic concept. I know sometimes people like to hear of someone being beaten but that isn't going to help society in the long run. Not if a person is going to be getting out in 3-5 years time. Far better to make sure they learn something useful like a trade and for the government to have some kind of incentive program in place to encourage business to hire such people. I can only imagine how hard it is for them once they get out and making it impossible for them to get jobs will only cause them to commit more crimes and land back in jail.

The only exemption I would make are for those who have done heinous crimes like raping and murdering a small child. If someone does something like that I believe that have given up all their rights and privileges for ever. I assume the US would carry out the death sentence on such people, but we do not have the death sentence here and like most Australians would not support it coming back. I would be in support of hard labour for such people as use to be done.

 

[Robban]

Are you talking about the same Jewish laws that condone slavery?

Here we go.

Same old, same old.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No one deserves to be beaten but men do not belong in female prisons. The women there also have a right to be kept safe. The left would enjoy stripping woman of all their rights because at heart it is a misogynistic movement. They want rights for men, rights for trans and nobody else. They don't care if women, real women are traumatized and raped.

Since this man believed himself to be a woman he should have been able to choose to be with other trans people if he so wished or in solitary until he could be moved to a prison with such facilities.

Anyone find out what this trans person was in for?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here we go.

Same old, same old.

It seems like a simple question...

There are a lot of Jewish texts that mention the law.

I'm asking if these people who considered imprisoning someone torture were cool with enslavement?

 

[IceJad]

When a regular man/women gets beat up in prison no one bats an eyelid. To them it is but another event passing them by. Why care about bad people unrelated to you beating each other up? Now add a variable, LGBTQ it suddenly becomes news people care about.

If one cares not for the former why care about the later? You have to ask yourself that question. A crime is a crime.

I give you 2 scenarios:

1. A transgender woman get beats up in prison by male inmates. By and large society sees it as transphobia.
2. A pedophile get beats up in prison by male inmates. By and large society sees it as justice.

My take is that both are crimes and both offenders are equally deserving of safety. My personal grudge against the crimes they commit shouldn't be a factor in their prison treatment.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Trans woman beaten after being jailed with men, lawsuit against San Diego Sheriff's Department alleges

Is it a good thing, or the right thing that this woman was beaten up after she was placed in her "gone sarnit"/birth gender identity or would it have been safer for her if she would have been placed in her "I identify as this" gender identity?

When things like this happen:
Lawsuit: Female Prisoner Says She Was Raped by Transgender Inmate what would you suggest be done?

 

[bekkilyn]

When a regular man/women gets beat up in prison no one bats an eyelid. To them it is but another event passing them by. Why care about bad people unrelated to you beating each other up? Now add a variable, LGBTQ it suddenly becomes news people care about.

If one cares not for the former why care about the later? You have to ask yourself that question. A crime is a crime.

I give you 2 scenarios:

1. A transgender woman get beats up in prison by male inmates. By and large society sees it as homophobia.
2. A pedophile get beats up in prison by male inmates. By and large society sees it as justice.

My take is that both are crimes and both offenders are equally deserving of safety. My personal grudge against the crimes they commit shouldn't be a factor in their prison treatment.

Personally I'm against an environment in which people can be so easily beaten up and abused in the first place. It doesn't matter whether they are alphabet or not. Going to prison should not automatically be a sentence of regular abuse no matter the crime, and is something that needs to be changed all around. While in this thread I am protesting a man being housed in prison with unconsenting women (the LGBTQ part is secondary) we need a good deal of prison reform in general. I don't want those people coming out and committing even worse crimes than before they went in, but that's what the current system seems to encourage.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Obviously time for his, hers, unisex cells.

These situations happen outside of their cells. Solitary is the only solution.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

She was placed with 3 men. While she looked and dressed as a woman. Of course , she would be beat up. I believe these cop's did this on purpose. So she would get beat up. Maybe Transgenders should have their birth certificate changed also.

Of course.

 

[Robban]

It seems like a simple question...

There are a lot of Jewish texts that mention the law.

I'm asking if these people who considered imprisoning someone torture were cool with enslavement?

OK, I was a little dissapointed in it coming from you.

I enjoy reading what you post, so I was pretty hasty, clearly.

Jewish Law is as vast as the ocean, a lifetime is not enough.

I posted as a little intressting item.

To study Jewish Laws seriously there would be no time to spend on an internet forum.

I have studied a little but it was so fascinating I forgot time and room and even eating.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Kristina Frost wasn't in prison. She went to jail, She was only placed in a holding cell with 3 men. When there was a holding cell with nobody in. They didn't give her medical treatment.

According to the suit filed in U.S. District Court earlier this month, Frost was supposed to be a “book and release” defendant, meaning she was accused of a minor crime and should not have been in custody for an extended period of time.

Frost then spent more than 12 hours in custody without receiving medical attention, the legal complaint said.

After she was released, she went to a hospital and was diagnosed with two fractures in her jaw. She required two surgeries and had her mouth wired shut, the lawsuit said.
“Ms. Frost continues to suffer from these injuries and must now wear dentures,” the lawsuit states.

The 12-page lawsuit accuses Sheriff Bill Gore and his senior command staff of fostering a dangerous environment throughout the San Diego County jail system.

 

[IceJad]

Personally I'm against an environment in which people can be so easily beaten up and abused in the first place. It doesn't matter whether they are alphabet or not. Going to prison should not automatically be a sentence of regular abuse no matter the crime, and is something that needs to be changed all around. While in this thread I am protesting a man being housed in prison with unconsenting women (the LGBTQ part is secondary) we need a good deal of prison reform in general. I don't want those people coming out and committing even worse crimes than before they went in, but that's what the current system seems to encourage.

I agree with you on this. Prison is not a dungeon. At least it is not meant to be one. I for one would want to see more inmates come out better than they entered.

My point is not so much on what prison inmates do to each other or the conditions of the imprisonment. My peeve is the society generally sanctifying criminals when they are labelled with some minority attributes. Being a minority shouldn't give anyone any special considerations above all others around you. Everyone should be considered and given the same emphasis in all situations.

It is an unfair and emotionally driven advocacy.

 

[Pommer]

According to the suit filed in U.S. District Court earlier this month, Frost was supposed to be a “book and release” defendant, meaning she was accused of a minor crime and should not have been in custody for an extended period of time.

But after arriving at the Men’s Central Jail on Nov. 25, 2020, Frost was moved from a holding cell to another cell with three men already inside. She kept to herself and eventually fell asleep but was awakened by a man beating her, the lawsuit said.

According to the complaint, which seeks unspecified damages, a deputy or deputies watched the assault and did not immediately try to stop the attack.

“Ms. Frost saw one or more deputies pausing outside the cell before entering to intervene,” the complaint said. “Deputies eventually removed the assailant from the cell and put him alone in another holding cell.”

Frost then spent more than 12 hours in custody without receiving medical attention, the legal complaint said.

The jailers had a holding cell where Ms Frost was alone but deputies decided that she needed to have company, violating the Department’s stated policy.
After she was assaulted, no medical attention was deemed “necessary”, (apparently, since she didn’t get any).

 

[bekkilyn]

Kristina Frost wasn't in prison. She went to jail, She was only placed in a holding cell with 3 men. When there was a holding cell with nobody in. They didn't give her medical treatment.

The jailers had a holding cell where Ms Frost was alone but deputies decided that she needed to have company, violating the Department’s stated policy.
After she was assaulted, no medical attention was deemed “necessary”, (apparently, since she didn’t get any).

Well I'm in agreement that this is wrong. Frost should have had Frost's own cell the whole time, or at least been removed from the "company" the moment there was trouble. Sounds like it may have been intentional though.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Wasn't very funny for the woman who got the crap beaten out of her by the man in pink hair who got paid a lot of money to do it on TV.

That really has nothing to do with this. Kristina Frost isn't a professional boxer and she was attack by 3 men. When Kristina Frost should have been placed by herself. I don't think Transgender's females should be in female sports. Especially, when they didn't have male hormone blockers since a kid.

 

[bekkilyn]

That really has nothing to do with this. Kristina Frost isn't a professional boxer and she was attack by 3 men. When Kristina Frost should have been placed by herself. I don't think Transgender's females should be in female sports. Especially, when they didn't have male hormone blockers since a kid.

My response was directed towards someone else who brought up boxing.