Defining terms shortens debate: Free Will

[GenemZ]

I am only being evasive because I've been asked not to explain or explore my theology in the public forums.

No restrictions exist for Private Message though...

That simply means you are apostate... and, I would be wasting my time if you can not lay your cards on the table for all to see....

Too bad you can not discuss in the open. Going private would be only inviting to be gaslighted.


Too bad. Wood, hay, and stubble will be burned up. The only hope is to be able to discuss so you can be shown corrections when needed. Bias is a bad pseudo spirit to guide you..

You man enough?

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid.

Proverbs 12:1

 

[Mark Quayle]

Somebody raised you from the dead, and you want to say it's like someone fixed your food?

 

[GenemZ]

Somebody raised you from the dead, and you want to say it's like someone fixed your food?

Who are you addressing?

 

[GenemZ]

I can say that no, he was not looking for his helpmeet or spouse but he was trying to deke around accepting Eve whom he rejected. Finding his spouse and naming the animals are bound together by this verse though ignored by general orthodoxy. I will answer pms.

Yes... the animals were a training tool used of God to prepare Adam to understand what a helpmate is for. But, Adam had no idea what God had prepared for him. When the woman was finally introduced to Adam, he instantly recognized her function, and knew to name her "man" in the feminine gender.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I can boast about what? I didn't do anything. That's like boasting because someone else fixed my food and I didn't turn it down.

Who are you addressing?

Ha! I meant to be answering Renniks and somehow didn't get his post onto my reply. But when I went to look for it I saw yours! "Hey...I was broke and near starving... and some billionaire walked up to me and offered me a million dollars with no strings attached.

Aren't I wonderful, and better than you, for taking it?"

Both of you seem to think Gods gift to the redeemed is like any other gift —only a gift.

 

[GenemZ]

Ha! I meant to be answering Renniks and somehow didn't get his post onto my reply. But when I went to look for it I saw yours! "Hey...I was broke and near starving... and some billionaire walked up to me and offered me a million dollars with no strings attached.

Aren't I wonderful, and better than you, for taking it?"

Both of you seem to think Gods gift to the redeemed is like any other gift —only a gift.

Stop projecting.... Your bias blinders are showing.

 

[renniks]

Ha! I meant to be answering Renniks and somehow didn't get his post onto my reply. But when I went to look for it I saw yours! "Hey...I was broke and near starving... and some billionaire walked up to me and offered me a million dollars with no strings attached.

Aren't I wonderful, and better than you, for taking it?"

Both of you seem to think Gods gift to the redeemed is like any other gift —only a gift.

What is it, if not a gift?

 

[GenemZ]

Ha! I meant to be answering Renniks and somehow didn't get his post onto my reply. But when I went to look for it I saw yours! "Hey...I was broke and near starving... and some billionaire walked up to me and offered me a million dollars with no strings attached.

Aren't I wonderful, and better than you, for taking it?"

Both of you seem to think Gods gift to the redeemed is like any other gift —only a gift.

So? Was I to go home as a child, and when entering my home, get down on my knees to show my mother how grateful I was for giving birth to me? Or, was I to live my life and enjoy her presence?

I think you created an idol of your "gift," and its become a type of theological fetish for you.

"I am more grateful than you are! How dare you not be as grateful!"
(boasting of works, my friend?)

I show my gratitude by sitting under my pastor-teacher everyday and take in the exegesis of God's Word that demands my concentration in order to properly grasp the intent..... as the means to grow in being transformed into the image of Christ!

Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” 1 Cor 1:31

Some would rather boast in their 'greater gratefulness', and try to "grateful shame" others as they set them selves in a superior position in their own thinking!

Some of us need to grow up more than others.....

 

[renniks]

Somebody raised you from the dead, and you want to say it's like someone fixed your food?

It's a gift. You want to discuss the size of the gift, fine... but that doesn't change anything.
The Holy Spirit didn't act upon me like a gangster but like a gentleman. He didn't hit me over the head or hold me at gunpoint. He didn't force my will but persuaded by showing me my need.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It's a gift. You want to discuss the size of the gift, fine... but that doesn't change anything.
The Holy Spirit didn't act upon me like a gangster but like a gentleman. He didn't hit me over the head or hold me at gunpoint. He didn't force my will but persuaded by showing me my need.

You will note, I hope, that when someone holds a gun to your head, you are still the one making the choice; the gun helps you decide. Though you find it useful to compare such things to what God does in changing your heart, it is irrelevant to what he did.

God is indeed tender and kind and gentle. His regeneration happened without you having to decide anything, but it affected you from the inside, and now you love him (or so it seems to me). You decide, indeed you do, and he shows you your need, but you did not force him to take up residence within you.

 

[GenemZ]

God is indeed tender and kind and gentle. His regeneration happened without you having to decide anything

You make it sound like God slips a laxative into our coffee without us knowing... and then something happens.

Interesting to note. His regeneration does not happen to those who refuse to believe in Jesus. It only happens with those who do.

So then, is "believing" not doing something?

Another trap to avoid:

We are not saved by "works." Works = Plural!

Works = a system men are told to follow to gain the approval of God, usually religious and demanding in nature.

We are nor saved by works. Not saved by fulfilling some system designed by the religious.

Yet? We are saved by one single work. Not works.

The Jews who were tainted by the Pharisees had become seekers of doing religious works allegedly designed to gain eternal life. That is why Jesus was asked what works must they do to be saved.

His answer?

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”


Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has
sent.” Jn 6:28-29​

One work saves us. One work alone. Not works.

grace and peace ........

 

[TedT]

That simply means you are apostate...

Everybody's somebody's apostate,
Everybody's somebody's heretic...

 

[TedT]

Stop projecting.... Your bias blinders are showing.

Everybody sees thru a filter of bias! Both thee and me!!

The flim flam of exegesis is that for anyone to get the meaning of a verse from the verse without any input from their mindset and unfiltered by existing ideas is on the order of Paul's conversion as a bright light and hearing GOD's voice telling him how it is. Every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis, the fitting of the verse into previously accepted definitions.

 

[GenemZ]

Everybody's somebody's apostate,
Everybody's somebody's heretic...

But not everybody is....

And, some are easily shown to be wrong. But, not to the one being shown.

I do not know what your pet thing is, but this forum allows for a lot of leeway. So, very few are warned like you have been here. They tolerate much.

 

[GenemZ]

Everybody sees thru a filter of bias! Both thee and me!!

The flim flam of exegesis is that for anyone to get the meaning of a verse from the verse without any input from their mindset and unfiltered by existing ideas is on the order of Paul's conversion as a bright light and hearing GOD's voice telling him how it is. Every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis, the fitting of the verse into previously accepted definitions.

Well... looks like you have had some basic training.... at least. You have been taught "talking points" only.

Well... this all began over how one feels about the "gift." I remember how I was overwhelmed when I learned certain truths. But, I knew I needed to adjust and stabilize as to be able to relate to other human beings. Just like Paul needed to be given a thorn in his flesh unless he became arrogantly a holy roller emotionally. God had to snap Paul into thinking objectively lest he looked like an over emotional holy roller like we see the media using to give Christianity a bad name today online and in the media.

So, what's this thing you have for measuring people according to how much they show appreciation our gift of salvation? That is the "gift" you speak of, right?

You have no idea how I feel. But, you assume you do, and then elevate yourself in your own eyes.

The sense of appreciation of a child differs from a mature adult.... Both appreciate.

 

[renniks]

His regeneration happened without you having to decide anything, but it affected you from the inside, and now you love him (or so it seems to me). You decide, indeed you do, and he shows you your need, but you did not force him to take up residence within you.

You just directly contradicted yourself.
But that is what compatabalistic Calvinism is, direct contradictions.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Mark Quayle said: ↑
His regeneration happened without you having to decide anything, but it affected you from the inside, and now you love him (or so it seems to me). You decide, indeed you do, and he shows you your need, but you did not force him to take up residence within you.

You just directly contradicted yourself.
But that is what compatabalistic Calvinism is, direct contradictions.

You know Calvinism better than to say what you did, or so I thought. My second sentence, refers to you deciding subsequent to regeneration. Hello!

 

[renniks]

Mark Quayle said: ↑
His regeneration happened without you having to decide anything, but it affected you from the inside, and now you love him (or so it seems to me). You decide, indeed you do, and he shows you your need, but you did not force him to take up residence within you.

You know Calvinism better than to say what you did, or so I thought. My second sentence, refers to you deciding subsequent to regeneration. Hello!

No one is regenerated before faith. That's backwards from what the Bible teaches.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No one is regenerated before faith. That's backwards from what the Bible teaches.

The Bible teaches that faith is the gift, the result, of the indwelling Spirit of God.

How can you believe in the worth of your own silly faith? Anybody can have that kind of faith. That would make any religion's faith acceptable. None of us even know God, nor the Gospel, well enough to know just what we are believing. It is the Spirit of God who has that knowledge. Faith that is sure. If your faith is the result of your willpower and integrity, it is not good enough.

 

[renniks]

The Bible teaches that faith is the gift, the result, of the indwelling Spirit of God.

How can you believe in the worth of your own silly faith? Anybody can have that kind of faith. That would make any religion's faith acceptable. None of us even know God, nor the Gospel, well enough to know just what we are believing. It is the Spirit of God who has that knowledge. Faith that is sure. If your faith is the result of your willpower and integrity, it is not good enough.

If you mean we are enabled to believe because of the Spirit revealing himself to us, then in that context faith is a gift. But if you mean we have no part in accepting the spirit's leading, that's nonsense and unbiblical. And all we need to know is Christ crucified and risen for us. We don't have to have all knowledge to choose to believe.