Covid-19 & discernible relationship between % of population fully vaccinated & new COVID-19 cases

[LeafByNiggle]

Only as many as the CDC and MSM will allow you to know about.

...obvious conspiracy theory with no support....

 

[Aldebaran]

...obvious conspiracy theory with no support....

....Proof of what I said in the rest of my post.
At least you guys are consistently predictable.

Read post #15 again. People here have personally watched loved ones and co-workers die after getting the shots. Do you assume they're conspiracy theorists when they tell you what they saw for themselves?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

....Proof of what I said in the rest of my post.
Read post #15 again. People here have personally watched loved ones and co-workers die after getting the shots. Do you assume they're conspiracy theorists when they tell you what they saw for themselves?

Follow the statistics: In an average year, 2.8 million people die from all causes. In the past year, 190 million Americans were fully vaccinated. Many of those received two shots. Suppose we say then that 250 million shots have been given. Are you surprised then that a certain number of those 250 million shots just happened to coincide with one of the 2.8 million deaths that were going to happen anyway? Statistically it is almost a certainty that many such coincidences would occur. It is much more likely that the vast majority of those coincidences were just coincidences than that the CDC together with media could engineer such a secure conspiracy. That is much more of a reach than the fact that some coincidences occurred.

 

[stevil]

Why? If vaccinated people can spread the virus as stated by Pfizer director Rochelle Walensky. What difference does it make if the person next to me on the plane is vaccinated or not?

What some people are struggling with is that a vaccinated person is much less likely to get infected and much less likely to spread the disease.

 

[stevil]

Get the shot so you can return to normal.

One shot of pfizer give you an 80% chance of immunity

But wear a mask so you don't transmit the disease that you're immune from getting in the first place.

Continue wearing a mask in public because even though you might have 1 vaccine you still have a chance (albeit reduced chance) of catching the disease and spreading it. Given Delta is highly contagious and in USA there are a lot of unvaccinated people, wearing a mask, even by vaccinated people, helps to reduce the spread of a deadly disease in the middle of a pandemic.

Then get a booster for the original shots that already give you a 95% chance of avoiding infection

The second injection improves your immunity from 80% upto 90%, which halves the chances of breakthrough infection and again helps to reduce the spread even further.
The second injection also helps to increase the duration of your immunity so it lasts longer.

and 100% chance of avoiding death, even though plenty of people who are "fully vaccinated" (a soon to be redefined term) are dying of Covid.

Noone has ever boasted that any of these vaccines give 100% protection so of course some vaccinated people are still dying. Vaccines rely on the person's own immune system to create an immunity. People that have medical conditions that make them immunodeficient don't generate a strong immunity from the vaccine and hence are still susceptible to the disease.

 

[Aldebaran]

Follow the statistics: In an average year, 2.8 million people die from all causes. In the past year, 190 million Americans were fully vaccinated. Many of those received two shots. Suppose we say then that 250 million shots have been given. Are you surprised then that a certain number of those 250 million shots just happened to coincide with one of the 2.8 million deaths that were going to happen anyway? Statistically it is almost a certainty that many such coincidences would occur. It is much more likely that the vast majority of those coincidences were just coincidences than that the CDC together with media could engineer such a secure conspiracy. That is much more of a reach than the fact that some coincidences occurred.

I'll understandably take that as a non-answer to what I asked you.

 

[Aldebaran]

One shot of pfizer give you an 80% chance of immunity

I don't need to read a commercial for Pfizer.

Continue wearing a mask in public because even though you might have 1 vaccine you still have a chance (albeit reduced chance) of catching the disease and spreading it. Given Delta is highly contagious and in USA there are a lot of unvaccinated people, wearing a mask, even by vaccinated people, helps to reduce the spread of a deadly disease in the middle of a pandemic.

Masks aren't for protecting the wearer, remember?

The second injection improves your immunity from 80% upto 90%, which halves the chances of breakthrough infection and again helps to reduce the spread even further.
The second injection also helps to increase the duration of your immunity so it lasts longer.

That's not the booster. That would be the 3rd or 4th ones.

Noone has ever boasted that any of these vaccines give 100% protection so of course some vaccinated people are still dying. Vaccines rely on the person's own immune system to create an immunity. People that have medical conditions that make them immunodeficient don't generate a strong immunity from the vaccine and hence are still susceptible to the disease.

That contradicts what they told me when I was getting the J&J version.

 

[stevil]

Masks aren't for protecting the wearer, remember?

That is correct, yes.

That's not the booster. That would be the 3rd or 4th ones.

Um, Wot????

That contradicts what they told me when I was getting the J&J version.

Someone told you your vaccine gave you 100% immunity?
That was naughty.

 

[Aldebaran]

Um, Wot????

Confusing, isn't it? The first 2 shots are what makes you "fully vaccinated", but then about 6 months later, you need to get a booster. Places like Israel are already considering that 4th shot already, and the vaccines haven't even been around for a year yet. "Effective", sure! Israel Is Preparing for Possible Fourth Covid Vaccine Dose

Someone told you your vaccine gave you 100% immunity?
That was naughty.

They said it has 85% chance of preventing me from getting Covid, and 100% chance of preventing a case that results in hospitalization or death. And yes, J&J is supposedly the least effective of all the choices available, and yet plenty of people with the more "effective" ones have been hospitalized and/or died.
Naughty indeed.

 

[Bobber]

80% vaccination not high enough for herd immunity from COVID-Delta.

Due to it's transmissibility, COVID-Delta would require a immunization rate of 90% or more.

20% is still plenty people to infect ...

90%? Then you may as well say 100%.

 

[Bobber]

Are people being forced to take the vaccine ???

Nobody is going to win that argument. It's always going to be a matter of opinion. One side demands force means to strap people down and give them a vaccine against their will. The other side looks at force as being threatened with the loss of their job, and an endless amount of restrictions. As for me I'd still cause that forced. If people feel like almost life isn't worth living if they lose everything they've worked hard to attain I'd call that forced although I don't expect to convince another.

 

[Aldebaran]

Nobody is going to win that argument. It's always going to be a matter of opinion. One side demands force means to strap people down and give them a vaccine against their will. The other side looks at force as being threatened with the loss of their job, and an endless amount of restrictions. As for me I'd still cause that forced. If people feel like almost life isn't worth living if they lose everything they've worked hard to attain I'd call that forced although I don't expect to convince another.

Back when we used to talk about Christian bakers refusing to bake a cake for homosexual events, the other side would claim that the customer was being "forced" to go to a baker other than the one they wanted. Same with women being "forced" to get an unsafe abortion by laws that don't allow abortions. But mandates to get a vaccine shot lest you lose your ability to work? They say that's not force. They say it just causes you to make a decision about whether or not to suffer the consequences for defying a mandate.

 

[stevil]

Confusing, isn't it? The first 2 shots are what makes you "fully vaccinated", but then about 6 months later, you need to get a booster. Places like Israel are already considering that 4th shot already, and the vaccines haven't even been around for a year yet. "Effective", sure! Israel Is Preparing for Possible Fourth Covid Vaccine Dose

Most countries are doing 2 shots on Pfizer.
I have heard about an extra booster for those that are most vulnerable.

They said it has 85% chance of preventing me from getting Covid, and 100% chance of preventing a case that results in hospitalization or death. And yes, J&J is supposedly the least effective of all the choices available, and yet plenty of people with the more "effective" ones have been hospitalized and/or died.
Naughty indeed.

Don't believe everything you hear, if it is something you are concerned about, go to good medical sites and look for studies and clinical trials and look for others refuting those studies and clinical trials.

 

[Gene2memE]

That contradicts what they told me when I was getting the J&J version.

Who is "they"?

World Health Organization from 01 September:

How efficacious is the vaccine?

28 days after inoculation Janssen Ad26.CoV2.S was found to have an efficacy of 85.4% against severe disease and 93.1 % against hospitalization.
A single dose of Janssen Ad26.COV2.S was found in clinical trials to have an efficacy of 66.9% against symptomatic moderate and severe SARS-CoV-2 infection.
​

J&J from 21 September:

The largest real-world evidence study for a COVID-19 vaccine reported to date in the U.S. demonstrated stable vaccine effectiveness of 79 percent (CI, 77%-80%) for COVID-19-related infections and 81 percent (CI, 79%-84%) for COVID-19-related hospitalizations.​

US CDC information from March:

How Well the Vaccine Works​

• The J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine was 66.3% effective in clinical trials (efficacy) at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received the vaccine and had no evidence of being previously infected. People had the most protection 2 weeks after getting vaccinated.
• In the clinical trials, the vaccine had high efficacy at preventing hospitalization and death in people who did get sick. No one who got COVID-19 at least 4 weeks after receiving the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine had to be hospitalized.

 

[A_Thinker]

i doubt they would be honest about in it the first place, vaccinations would come to a screeching halt. there has been reported deaths but as usual they place spins on it to no end. their mind set is to save many a few will die. there was a vaccine mandated in the 70's that took many years to find out it caused other problems in people.

this could do the same, vaccines are not usually rushed out like this, the exception was the swine flu of the seventies was the same thing they rush it out.

The swine flu vaccine was not mandated ...

 

[A_Thinker]

so i guess your idea of death by a vaccine is quick and painless

We don't know of any deaths by vaccine ...

 

[A_Thinker]

arrg my bust you meant what i said about jobless can be worse than death sometimes, having no job no income, living under a bridge or in the woods eating out of garbage cans drinking half empty water bottles, freezing at night when it cold out side, because they cant afford a dwelling.

Just get another job. There's plenty out there right now ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Why? If vaccinated people can spread the virus as stated by Pfizer director Rochelle Walensky. What difference does it make if the person next to me on the plane is vaccinated or not?

Every aspect of COVID is lessened with those that are vaccinated.

There is LESS risk of becoming infected.
There is LESS risk of developing serious disease.
There is LESS risk of death.
Period of infection is SHORTER.
There is LESS risk of spread to others.

The numbers are all at least 5-10X LESS ...

From ... Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases...

"During April 4–July 17, a total of 569,142 (92%) COVID-19 cases, 34,972 (92%) hospitalizations, and 6,132 (91%) COVID-19–associated deaths were reported among persons not fully vaccinated, ...

... and 46,312 (8%) cases, 2,976 (8%) hospitalizations, and 616 (9%) deaths were reported among fully vaccinated persons in the 13 jurisdictions (Table)."

 

[A_Thinker]

90%? Then you may as well say 100%.

That's ludicrous, ... by your logic, I could just as easily say 80% ...

 

[KCfromNC]

No, that's what one study concludes, a study that looks at a pretty poor proxy for actual protection against infection with (and therefore spread of) SARS-CoV-2. Given that multiple other studies that look much more directly at that question come to a different conclusion, one should take this one with a bunch of grains of salt. (And one should ignore the article that reports about it entirely, given this blatant falsehood: 'The reality is that the notion that protection against serious illness is holding up, even as the vaccinated spread the virus more than ever, is collapsing by the day.')

Wait, you mean we shouldn't trust a paper which draws conclusions on data with a huge cluster of points showing countries with no vaccination and no cases?

Meanwhile, despite the claim in the OP, the supplemental material linked from the paper shows a pretty interesting relationship between vaccination rates and reductions in cases / 100k. Maybe not conclusive on its own, but it certainly contradicts the claim the paper shows that the vaccines do nothing.