Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[dogs4thewin]

The unvaccinated are not the ones overwhelming hospitals? They are not responsible for the outcome of their actions?

Yup there are way more of them in hospitals than vaccinated.

 

[Belk]

Medications often have effects we don't know about initially. Why else do medicines get recalled?

Since this is a vaccine which only stays in the body a few days as the immune system is being trained to fight the virus can you explain by what method a side effect would occur?

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's got nothing to do with whether we should seek treatment.

Actually, I contend it does. You did not get the vaccine that could have prevented you taking up a bed (probably) there are not enough resources so that decision should play a role in whether you are able to get treated. Now, if resources were not an issue that would be different.

 

[renniks]

We are but there are consequences to that choice.

No, only some of us are. What other medicine that I don't take makes me ineligible for certain jobs or to travel?

 

[pitabread]

Medications often have effects we don't know about initially.

Such as?

 

[renniks]

Since this is a vaccine which only stays in the body a few days as the immune system is being trained to fight the virus can you explain by what method a side effect would occur?

Are you attempting to say that the vaccine can't effect permanent changes to the body? Then, it's not much use is it?

"Every drug or vaccine is toxic at some level in some percent of people, and there’s pretty clear evidence that the spike protein expressed from vaccines is causing toxicity in a small subset of patients. The question is, How big is that subset, and how broad and bad are those toxicities? The honest truth is, we don’t know. And furthermore, there’s a lot of signs that that information is being withheld from us."

(Dr. Malone is an impeccably credentialed scientist. He helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based.)

 

[dogs4thewin]

No, only some of us are. What other medicine that I don't take makes me ineligible for certain jobs or to travel?

Are they holding a gun to your head and making you take the vaccine? No, then you have the choice you just better know that if you do not you will have certain consequences for that choice. This is not the first vaccine mandate. It is the first most people remember and it is certainly the first where most people alive today were the age of majority to decide for themselves whether to take it, but it is not the first mandate.

 

[pitabread]

Bextra was approved in 2001. In 2005, it was taken off the market due to causing heart problems and potentially fatal skin reactions. Those heart conditions weren't identified until 2004.

That is about side effects not identified until years later, not that the drug had side effects that didn't manifest until years later.

Not the same thing.

 

[renniks]

Such as?

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...of-anti-smoking-drug-over-carcinogen-presence

"Pfizer Inc said on Thursday it was recalling all lots of its anti-smoking treatment, Chantix, due to high levels of cancer-causing agents called nitrosamines in the pills."

Doesn't exactly make one trust the Pfizer vaccine.

 

[Vylo]

In my profession when there is a hard problem to solve I always ignore people that always have a reason not to solve it and just keep the status quo. When you do that the problem almost always get solved.

Your profession is not trying to change the most expensive piece of human infrastructure ever created in the span of weeks.

 

[Belk]

Are you attempting to say that the vaccine can't effect permanent changes to the body? Then, it's not much use is it?

"Every drug or vaccine is toxic at some level in some percent of people, and there’s pretty clear evidence that the spike protein expressed from vaccines is causing toxicity in a small subset of patients. The question is, How big is that subset, and how broad and bad are those toxicities? The honest truth is, we don’t know. And furthermore, there’s a lot of signs that that information is being withheld from us."

(Dr. Malone is an impeccably credentialed scientist. He helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based.)

No. I'm asking you the methodology of these long term effects you are claiming might happen. How would this vaccine cause a long term side effect?

 

[pitabread]

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...of-anti-smoking-drug-over-carcinogen-presence

"Pfizer Inc said on Thursday it was recalling all lots of its anti-smoking treatment, Chantix, due to high levels of cancer-causing agents called nitrosamines in the pills."

Doesn't exactly make one trust the Pfizer vaccine.

Bit more nuance to this as described here:

Long-term ingestion of N-nitroso-varenicline may be associated with a theoretical potential increased cancer risk in humans, but there is no immediate risk to patients taking this medication. The health benefits of stopping smoking outweigh the theoretical potential cancer risk from the nitrosamine impurity in varenicline.

Nitrosamines are common in water and foods, including cured and grilled meats, dairy products and vegetables. Everyone is exposed to some level of nitrosamines. These impurities may increase the risk of cancer if people are exposed to them above acceptable levels over long periods of time.

Pfizer Expands Voluntary Nationwide Recall to include All Lots of CHANTIX® (Varenicline) Tablets Due to N-Nitroso Varenicline Content
​

It talks about long-term ingestion of this substance raising cancer risks over time. What constitutes long-term ingestion and what relative risk are we talking about?

How does that compare with a vaccine injection which are done on an infrequent basis as best?

 

[pitabread]

No. I'm asking you the methodology of these long term effects you are claiming might happen. How would this vaccine cause a long term side effect?

One thing I have read about is the possible triggering of autoimmune disease. But if that did occur, how long would it take? Is that really a risk that would manifest years after the fact?

 

[renniks]

Are they holding a gun to your head and making you take the vaccine? No, then you have the choice you just better know that if you do not you will have certain consequences for that choice. This is not the first vaccine mandate. It is the first most people remember and it is certainly the first where most people alive today were the age of majority to decide for themselves whether to take it, but it is not the first mandate.

You did not answer the question.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You did not answer the question.

There are other mandates to vaccines. Those mandates can and do affect your ability to travel (especially overseas and work certain jobs. and even go to school.

 

[renniks]

Long-term ingestion of N-nitroso-varenicline may be associated with a theoretical potential increased cancer risk in humans, but there is no immediate risk to patients taking this medication. The health benefits of stopping smoking outweigh the theoretical potential cancer risk from the nitrosamine impurity in varenicline.

Nice double speak... they sound like politicians.

 

[renniks]

No. I'm asking you the methodology of these long term effects you are claiming might happen. How would this vaccine cause a long term side effect?

Blood clots and deaths for one.
A lot of neurological problems have been reported. Whose to say they aren't permanent?
Weakening immune systems of already frail people, also.

 

[pitabread]

Nice double speak... they sound like politicians.

That doesn't answer the questions.

We're talking about relative scenarios such potential long-term usage of a medication giving rise to effects, versus single or infrequent usage.

Are these scenarios analogous in your mind? Can we make the same assumptions about the vaccine long-term effects versus a medication doesn't to be taken continuously?

 

[pitabread]

Blood clots and deaths for one.
A lot of neurological problems have been reported. Whose to say they aren't permanent?
Weakening immune systems of already frail people, also.

When are these side effects occurring though? Are these things that show up years later? Or do they show relatively quickly?

Is a vaccine going to trigger a blood clot years down the road? Do we have any evidence of this occurring where causality can be determined?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Blood clots and deaths for one.
A lot of neurological problems have been reported. Whose to say they aren't permanent?
Weakening immune systems of already frail people, also.

How many have those compared to the litterally MILLIONS who have taken the vaccine? Anything medical cares risk it does not always work they are not always right about a particular person's outcome. I learned that the HARD and painful way. ( Not with the vaccines, but with cancer.