Hand count in audit affirms Biden beat Trump, as Maricopa County said in November

[Albion]

I will just roll with it and say okay we have to do a better job next time of having fair elections.

We will all see later.

Will we? Not at this rate, we won't. Not only have most reform efforts been squelched, but Pelosi is currently pushing legislation in Congress to have the feds take over all state and local elections and make permanent the so-called emergency measures that were put in place last year and which caused so much voting irregularity.

 

[Isilwen]

will you question the validity of those that have said no fraud then? IE main stream media, social media, democrats, never trumpers ect.

Now or in the future?

 

[Isilwen]

Will we? Not at this rate, we won't.

I disagree and will leave it at that.

 

[Albion]

I think that is because there were recounts done already and they have shown no evidence of election stealing. So, they see it as undermining the confidence of the American people in the election process.

If all of that were true, you might, just might, be right. But of course that's not what the people I referred to have been saying. No, they have not just charged that the 'confidence' of the people has been or could be 'undermined.'

They said that for anyone to even question the results of the election where no recount, let alone a forensic examination of the ballots, was done...amounted to them attacking democracy! That's quite a scary departure from responsible political speech.

Again, that is just my opinion.

 

[1rreducibly Complex]

Its a strange world we're living in.

That supports vaccine ID and hates voter ID.

Why can't we have mail in ballots for proof of vaccination with no ID process.

 

[durangodawood]

R's trying to cling to an increasingly leveraged minority rule.

Who knows what stunts they will pull next? Probably wont include trying to actually represent more voters.

Thats a shame, as some of their political philosophy appeals to me. But I'm not buying that at the price of their backward moralities and embrace of extremism.

 

[miamited]

It's surprising, isn't it, that so many people really don't much care if our elections are conducted fairly or not? I sometimes think of how in some "third world" nations, people who have voted get their thumbs inked (like we do with fingerprinting) so that they can be identified if they try to vote twice. But in the USA, that would be called "voter suppression!!!!"

Hi albion,

That just is not a fair statement. I think we all care that our elections are run properly and legally. The problem seems to be that the Trumpers don't seem to want the election to have been run properly or legally. They want it to have been run just anyway that would have shown their candidate to be the winner. There have literally been dozens upon dozens of tests and research and studies and audits and recounts that attest that our last election was run properly and legally according to the various state's elections processes.

What's more surprising to me is that there are so many people who have been hoodwinked into believing that, despite all of the overwhelming evidence that the last election was run properly, legally and correctly counted, they just don't believe it!!!! They have bought into some yuge conspiracy theory that just doesn't have a shred of evidence to support it, despite all of the tested and retested 'facts' to the contrary. That's what's really amazing to me. That seemingly decent, fairly smart people could actually be so willfully blind to the truth.

That's actually scary, but does show how so many are going to be deceived when the great deception of the last days comes upon us.

That's my two cents and understanding of what's been going on for these last 10 months. 60 attempts through the courts to show proof of fraud. Atty Sidney Powell's claim that the work of her legal team was going to release the 'Kraken' of evidence to support a stolen and fraudulent election. A 3 day seminar by Trump loyalist Mike Lindell that was going to overwhelm us with thousands upon thousands of data points that was going to absolutely and conclusively show all the fraud that even the Supreme Court would immediately reinstate the 'former guy' as president. Now a forensic audit that took over 4 months to complete to merely count and study the ballots of one county in all of the country...and nothing!!!! NOTHING!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVICALLY NOTHING!!!!!!!

What's it going to take to get through the addled brains of these conspiracy believers? There really just isn't any way that some group could have pulled off what the 'former guy' is trying to tell his minions has been pulled off here, without even a shred of evidence having been found so far. It just is an impossibility. The Republican party is a laughingstock to the nation. I enjoy a heartfelt chuckle every time some new 'as yet unconfirmed' report comes out. I laugh, but feel real sorrow, for the states that are still going to attempt to find this 'pervasive' fraud. I think it's terribly sad that a group of people can willfully waste so much time, money and effort chasing after the wind, as King Solomon put it.

God bless,
Ted

 

[cow451]

It's surprising, isn't it, that so many people really don't much care if our elections are conducted fairly or not? I sometimes think of how in some "third world" nations, people who have voted get their thumbs inked (like we do with fingerprinting) so that they can be identified if they try to vote twice. But in the USA, that would be called "voter suppression!!!!"

Who are the people that do not care about American elections fairly conducted? Who are these people?

 

[cow451]

What would a flat earther say if flown to the moon?

The moon is flat, too.

 

[cow451]

Will we? Not at this rate, we won't. Not only have most reform efforts been squelched, but Pelosi is currently pushing legislation in Congress to have the feds take over all state and local elections and make permanent the so-called emergency measures that were put in place last year and which caused so much voting irregularity.

Irregularity? I thought it was labeled “widespread fraud”. Which is it?

 

[cow451]

If all of that were true, you might, just might, be right. But of course that's not what the people I referred to have been saying. No, they have not just charged that the 'confidence' of the people has been or could be 'undermined.'

They said that for anyone to even question the results of the election where no recount, let alone a forensic examination of the ballots, was done...amounted to them attacking democracy! That's quite a scary departure from responsible political speech.

There have been several recounts. Georgia did one and Arizona did one.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It's surprising, isn't it, that so many people really don't much care if our elections are conducted fairly or not?

Who's that? I think almost all of us care. That's why we have election laws and official audits and crosschecks.

 

[miamited]

Hi again @Albion

multiple ballots returned by the same voter.

The 'former guy' might want to tread carefully on that one. From all the evidence so far uncovered of any bad balloting, and yes in every election there are a handful of people who try to game the system', the some of them have been Trump votes. The man who voted his mother's ballot...voted for Trump. The 27 'possible' fraudulent ballots cast in Wisconsin, may turn out to have been majority Trump ballots, although that hasn't been revealed. But the 'former guy' may find that a lot of those 'multiple ballots returned by the same voter' being votes for him from his diehard fans. Quite frankly, I don't know of any Democrats who felt so strongly about Pres. Biden being elected that they cared to cheat the system. We'll see, if any findings are made concerning your claim of multiple ballots cast by one voter.

It sure wouldn't look good if the 'former guy' made a big stink about this issue and then it turn out that the majority of the fraud was perpetrated by his minions in league to re-elect him. LOL! Again I get to enjoy a chuckle.

God bless
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi @Albion

They said that for anyone to even question the results of the election where no recount, let alone a forensic examination of the ballots, was done...amounted to them attacking democracy! That's quite a scary departure from responsible political speech.

Is that really what we are looking forward to in our election process from here on out. That every election and count of the various states will need to undergo forensic auditing before a winner is declared? We'll have to start voting 2 years before the end of term for an administration. Another chuckle.

I really find it difficult to understand your position. I mean, I've conversed with you at length in the past and I know that you are not a young man. You've lived for years and years and years passing by election years without so much as a peep concerning any fraud or particular problems with the election processes in our country. Why now? What has changed in your mind that makes this particular election, out of the dozens you must have lived through, and likely participated in, that makes this one so different that we must continue some 10 months after the results to deny the validity of this election?

God bless,
Ted

 

[essentialsaltes]

Will we? Not at this rate, we won't. Not only have most reform efforts been squelched

Sure, hundreds of bills have been proposed. So the majority have not been passed. But I doubt this is much different from any other type of bill in the statehouses. But maybe you'll take comfort in all your wins.

Although the Brennan Center doesn't seem to have updated things since July...

Between January 1 and July 14, 2021, at least 18 states enacted 30 laws that restrict access to the vote. These laws make mail voting and early voting more difficult, impose harsher voter ID requirements, and make faulty voter purges more likely, among other things. More than 400 bills with provisions that restrict voting access have been introduced in 49 states in the 2021 legislative sessions.

 

[wing2000]

Its a strange world we're living in.

That supports vaccine ID and hates voter ID.

Why can't we have mail in ballots for proof of vaccination with no ID process.

psst. Voter ID exist in Arizona. From the Sec of State:

When you arrive to vote at the polls on Election Day you will announce your name and place of residence to the election official and present one form of identification from List #1 or two different forms of identification from List #2 or 3. (A.R.S. § 16-579(A)(link is external)).

Valid identification is also required prior to receiving a ballot at any in-person early voting location or emergency vote center or from a special election board. (A.R.S. § 16-542(link is external); § 16-549(link is external))

 

[iluvatar5150]

That's the part of the news report that the Biden fans didn't pass along. I am not personally involved in the recount going on in Arizona.

For anybody following along at home, here's the Executive Summary of Volume 1:
20210919 - Maricopa County Forensic Audit - Volume I - Executive Summary.docx

And the Results Details in Volume 3:
DocumentCloud

...because I'm apparently the only one who ever goes digging for this stuff, but anyways...

This table is found in the Executive Summary:

The allegation that the number of potential bogus votes exceeds the margin of victory is predicated on 1.) these estimates being correct, 2.) the assumption that there is no overlap among the categories of problematic ballots (i.e. that no one ballot is counted in 2 or more of these categories), and 3.) that the illegitimate votes were illegitimate in a way that mattered to the presidential election.

Volume 3, pg 6 has this breakdown of the first of the above categories, "Mail-In Ballots Voted from Prior Address":

I don't know which of these three categories qualify as technically legal or illegal votes, but the first one would have no substantive impact on the county-level results for the presidential election since those voters stayed within Maricopa. Assuming that category is made up of voters who were otherwise eligible to vote and who would/should have done so at their new, in-Maricopa addresses, those votes would still have counted towards Maricopa's presidential totals.

Eliminating those 15,035 vote from the "potentially bogus" tally is sufficient to get the number of potentially-bogus ballots down below Biden's margin of victory.

Talk is cheap, as the saying goes. I'd like to see someone who says " lots of us care about fair elections" actually voice some support for restoring the integrity of our elections, regardless of which candidate that would favor, if any.

Lots of us do that. Contrary to your side's rhetoric extolling the need for increased security, your side's perennial lying about election results and election security undermines the integrity of elections. When you lie about stuff and push idiotic conspiracy theories, you make everything worse.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yo dawg, I heard you like audits. (reactions from Telegram)

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Republicans will just demand another audit or recount or investigation or whatever word they want to use. When that fails to turn up anything they’ll just do another one. It’s like Benghazi. Just keep doing it in the news with slightest hint of indiscretion by the other side to get the moderates to side with you. It’s just a dog and pony show.

It’s the only strategy Republicans have to win elections. Their policy positions are a dead end. South Dakota voted for legalized marijuana and Florida voted for $15 minimum wage while voting for Trump. All they have left is to cry the other side cheated and hope people buy their pathetic crocodile tears.

 

[Albion]

Hi albion,

That just is not a fair statement. I think we all care that our elections are run properly and legally.

There are a lot of people, including elected officials, who are absolutely determined not to allow safeguards on illegal voting to be reinstituted, so I cannot agree with that view.

And when there is not even an attempt at explaining away what apparently are changes that invite fraud, I am even the more convinced. Sure, anyone can reel off nasty, hateful comments about Republicans, but that doesn't do a thing to insure free and fair elections.