Angels or Sons of God?

[Gregory Thompson]

railing accusations against angels in this case refers to fallen angels, Michael would not deal with Satan this way as Jude mentions. But angels being inferior to the Son and later the sons and daughters of God is from Hebrews 1 .

There is also a sense of "i'm better than you, angels" that's pride.

Beyond that, I thank you for the discussion.

 

[BobRyan]

NKJV
1 Corinthians 6
1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

I take it there is this humble Earthly life contrasted with the glorious life in Heaven. And angels are superior to fallen angels and so the title angels refers to the holy and otherwise fallen angels must be called fallen.

No -- "Angels" in this context are the fallen angels.

You see the same in 2 Peter 2:
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

There is also a sense of "i'm better than you, angels" that's pride.

Beyond that, I thank you for the discussion.

I do recall such pride in a Korean church, both from Koreans and an Australian. Talk of angels being like robots with no free will, and when I suggested I'd like to be one I was corrected as they do not have the future in God we have, and I was rebutted firmly for saying we should love angels.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

No "Angels" in this context are the fallen angels.

You see the same in 2 Peter 2:
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Yes, angels from Heaven will surely not make such a bad decision, it is hyperbole. But angels guard us and make judgements we will later be able to reconsider.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

1. He specified Earth because Rev 12 says this is his home after Adam and Eve turned the place over to him (Luke 4 he says -- "it has been given to me"

Luke 4:5 And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

2. In Matt 22 Jesus said Angels do not have the biology/function of having families even within their own species - let alone with other species.

3. In John 1:12 - Jesus said that humans that choose the Gospel have the right to be called "the sons of God" - those are the "people of God".

In Gen 6 it is the "people of God" that are the "sons of God" - the descendants of Seth - vs - the " daughters of men " - descendants of Cain -- unequally yoked destroyed true religion (the salt of the Earth destroyed -- then Earth destroyed in Gen 6 and 7

I agree except for Genesis 6 and I interpret all Adam's descendants are son and daughters of God alike. Interbreeding with Cain's daughters would only give other normal sized sons of God with maybe more of a tendency to be jealous. Not warring sons.

 

[BobRyan]

Interbreeding with Cain's daughters would only give other normal sized sons of God with maybe more of a tendency to be jealous. .

True but consider the following
1. Gen 6 does NOT say that only those who intermarried where large.
2. Nephilim were before the flood and after the flood according to Genesis which means Noah was Nephilim.
3. All the people before the flood lived for 100's of years - almost a thousand years in most cases and all of them were somewhat larger than mankind is today.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, angels from Heaven will surely not make such a bad decision, it is hyperbole. But angels guard us and make judgements we will later be able to reconsider.

No doubt we do have good angels "guardian angels" as they say. But humans judge all fallen beings during the 1000 year millennium and that includes fallen angels.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

True but consider the following
1. Gen 6 does NOT say that only those who intermarried where large.
2. Nephilim were before the flood and after the flood according to Genesis which means Noah was Nephilim.
3. All the people before the flood lived for 100's of years - almost a thousand years in most cases and all of them were somewhat larger than mankind is today.

Adam the first man lived to set the example of the nearly 1000 years life span. Others were like this, all mentioned were of the righteous family line, maybe except Cain. We don't know how long Nephilim lived, only they are described as giants. Where does it say Noah was a giant? I thought only half casts were hybrid giants. So hybrid with other kinds of sons of God who "came down" and chose whichever they wanted. I suppose they were overpowering... not persuasive.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

No doubt we do have good angels "guardian angels" as they say. But humans judge all fallen beings during the 1000 year millennium and that includes fallen angels.

I never before thought of judging fallen angels. I used to think of only judging holy angels who once were my headship. For it's part of what makes me who, what and where I stand before the Father in Heaven, which is my highest end goal.

I suppose that since Jesus took Lucifer's title from him in resurrection and glory, that maybe we can do things like this also.

 

[Carl Emerson]

True but consider the following
1. Gen 6 does NOT say that only those who intermarried where large.
2. Nephilim were before the flood and after the flood according to Genesis which means Noah was Nephilim.
3. All the people before the flood lived for 100's of years - almost a thousand years in most cases and all of them were somewhat larger than mankind is today.

Yet I don't recall any remains of such 'giants' being found.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Job 1 and 2 - Satan is asked by God "where do you come from" and in both cases he says it is Earth.

In 2 Cor 4:4 he is the "god of THIS World"

In Luke 4 - Satan says this world "has been given over to me"

In Rev 12 it is this world - that satan goes to after he war in heaven.

In Gen 3 - Adam and Eve choose Satan's rule over God's

Oh, ok. I was thinking GoldenKingGaze was making some claim as to a different planet.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Oh, ok. I was thinking GoldenKingGaze was making some claim as to a different planet.

Satan was the representative of Earth that he stole from Adam and Eve. The others were reps of other worlds.

Looking at Satan, in Job, he was contrasted against the form and inner nature, of a son of God.

 

[d taylor]

God created the Heavens and the Earth. Our sun is visibly one of many. And in their formation are planets along side. We can see them wobble their stars' paths. We can see Venus and Mars...

Titan can be explained to have potential to support a cryo-analogue of life on Earth. Satan in Job 1 mentioned as a bit different to the sons of God, also like this is one who was among the sons of God, but by implication is not like a son.

God did create the heaven(s) and earth, the sun is the sun, a great light created by God. Just as the moon is also a great light created by God and then The Bible states God also created the stars.

But then that is where the creation ends sun, moon and stars no mention of planets being created. What you believe to be planets are stars according to creation from The Bible. saturn (a pagan name*) is a star, jupiter(*) a star, venus(*) a star, so on and so on.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

God did create the heaven(s) and earth, the sun is the sun, a great light created by God. Just as the moon is also a great light created by God and then The Bible states God also created the stars.

But then that is where the creation ends sun, moon and stars no mention of planets being created. What you believe to be planets are stars according to creation from The Bible. saturn (a pagan name*) is a star, jupiter(*) a star, venus(*) a star, so on and so on.

Saturn could have life in it. Mars once may have. Call them stars, but if they have an atmosphere, gravity, magnetosphere, a good star to light it, various good temperatures... they could have life on them. They can be older than our solar system. And some younger maybe were made by God thousands of years after He made Eden. For God is always creating.

 

[Abaxvahl]

In Genesis 6:2-7 and Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 The sons of God are mentioned and some are sure these are angels.

"Son" has multiple senses and can be "in the likeness of" such as when St. John called the Pharisees snake bastards or Jesus said their father was the devil.

"Sons of God" in these passages are the spiritual beings, some of which are angels (like Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, the cherubim, seraphim, other good spirits commonly all called "angels") and some are demons (all the fallen ones). Moses and Job do specify when they say "sons of God," that is the specification.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was rebutted firmly for saying we should love angels.

Well, God does, so why not?

 

[d taylor]

Saturn could have life in it. Mars once may have. Call them stars, but if they have an atmosphere, gravity, magnetosphere, a good star to light it, various good temperatures... they could have life on them. They can be older than our solar system. And some younger maybe were made by God thousands of years after He made Eden. For God is always creating.

Do you get your way to receive God's free gift of Eternal life (salvation) from science, if not. Then why are you getting your creation information from science. Do you get information of angels and what they are from science if not why get your creation knowledge from science.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This does not say they are sons of God like the angels but rather that they do not die like the angels do not. The angels don't need resurrection. They are not born again, into sonship... Hebrews 1 .

I think perhaps psalms 82 contradicts that thought ...

 

[BobRyan]

But then that is where the creation ends sun, moon and stars no mention of planets being created.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV

Not a reference to other dead planets in our own solar system - but rather "other worlds" -- in the universe... in other solar systems

 

[BobRyan]

Saturn could have life in it. Mars once may have. Call them stars, but if they have an atmosphere, gravity, magnetosphere, a good star to light it, various good temperatures... they could have life on them. They can be older than our solar system. And some younger maybe were made by God thousands of years after He made Eden. For God is always creating.

You are limiting your "science" to only dead planets in our solar system. But the list of "exo-planets" includes a large number of earth-like planets potentially capable of life - and they are all outside of our solar system.