Angels or Sons of God?

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible describes giants after the flood (King Og, Goliath..)

Num. 13:33:
“And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

1. The bible describes those two as 10 feet tall and 9 feet tall respectively -
2. Robert Wadlow - 8'11'' -- so almost 9 feet tall. Robert Wadlow - Wikipedia

"Ron Wyatt, on one of his first trips to the Ark site, discovered Noah's house and the grave of his wife, Mrs. Noah. He claims the sarcophagus was 18 feet tall" (Which is not a claim that Noah's wife was 18 feet tall - but at the very least - very tall... possibly 11 or 12 feet)

http://6000years.org/giants.html#:~:text=George W. Hill, M.D., dug out a skeleton,near Brewersville, Indiana (Indianapolis News, Nov 10, 1975).

Interview --
The Discovery of Noah's Wife's Grave.

Six min : 30 seconds into that video they show a human finger found - - left hand little finger, that is huge.

==================

(1) Og, the King of Bashan
Deut. 3:11 says of Og:
“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.”
While we are not given his height, the length of his bed was longer than Goliath’s height by three cubits. (Three Cubits would be 63 inches)

(2) Goliath of Gath
Goliath is the most famous giant in recorded history partly because of the engaging, inspiring story of him boasting and blaspheming against God for days and a young boy, David, who believes God can do all things, steps up and kills him with a stone and sling while King Saul and his army are trembling in their boots due to Goliath. How tall was Goliath?
1 Sam. 17:4 says “And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.”

McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia (“Goliath”): His height was “six cubits and a span,” which, taking the cubit at 21 inches, would make him 10 1/2 feet high

Thanks Bob - not sure about Mr. Wyatt's claims but appreciate the feedback.

 

[d taylor]

At the time of the assembly, this strange figure appeared representing Earth with others from many worlds as above quoted, Hebrews 11:3

That has absolutely nothing to do with satan or worlds.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

1. No text says that only the mixed marriages (Seth and Cain's descendents intermarry) - were Nephilim.
2. No text says God wanted to "destroy all Nephilim".
3. No text says that "being a Nephilim is a sin"



4. No text says "Nephilim were not descendants of Adam".

The assertions you are making to support your conclusion - don't come from the Bible... and that leaves a huge gap in the support for your conclusion.

I think the Nephilim, were descended from sons of God that "came down" not as in from Jerusalem, from Acts... and that Cain was not of such a violent nature as a Nephilim. Not a sin to be a Nephilim but that sinned with a nature more intensely evil than any descendant of Adam. Also Jesus preached in the gloomy dungeons and saved the Nephilim, below there they were, but on Earth, they were extinct.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

That has absolutely nothing to do with satan or worlds.

It's scripture, interprets scripture. Job and Hebrews are about the same narrative and from the same Spirit and maybe the same family of authors.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

They are no tborn again into sonship becasu ehty hav eno need ot be born again - they are holy by choice and have never sinned and so are elected.

Some angels are elect:
1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. implying the fallen angels are demons and the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels. This verse contrasts the of evil of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and a robot neither can be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous.

I don't see why you think this contradicts what I have input.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Excuse me but imCo it says to me that the Divine Son, our redeemer, the Messiah, is not an angel, ie, a created messenger, as the Muslims claim.

Angel is NOT a race or type of person since it is only a job description.

Job 38:7 Tells us that ALL the Sons of GOD sang HIS praises when they witnessed the creation of the physical universe, the proof of HIS Divinity and power as mentioned in Rom 1:18-20. If you are a son of GOD then this verse can properly be read to say that you were there singing your heart out in praise of HIS deity and power at the creation. If you do not interpret this verse to mean this then you have already accepted a different idea as true that forestalls you from accepting this interpretation...in other words, you are putting your interpretation on the verse, not accepting what the verse says, just like those bible translators that translate sons of GOD as angels to push their interpretation upon us so we do not fall into believing we lived before the creation of the universe and saw it happen.

Yes, sons of God are not angels, remember my OP. Moses made no mistake in wording this, he had an educated choice.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I w

The Bible describes giants after the flood (King Og, Goliath..)

Num. 13:33:
“And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

1. The bible describes those two as 10 feet tall and 9 feet tall respectively -
2. Robert Wadlow - 8'11'' -- so almost 9 feet tall. Robert Wadlow - Wikipedia

"Ron Wyatt, on one of his first trips to the Ark site, discovered Noah's house and the grave of his wife, Mrs. Noah. He claims the sarcophagus was 18 feet tall" (Which is not a claim that Noah's wife was 18 feet tall - but at the very least - very tall... possibly 11 or 12 feet)

http://6000years.org/giants.html#:~:text=George W. Hill, M.D., dug out a skeleton,near Brewersville, Indiana (Indianapolis News, Nov 10, 1975).

Interview --
The Discovery of Noah's Wife's Grave.

Six min : 30 seconds into that video they show a human finger found - - left hand little finger, that is huge.

==================

(1) Og, the King of Bashan
Deut. 3:11 says of Og:
“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.”
While we are not given his height, the length of his bed was longer than Goliath’s height by three cubits. (Three Cubits would be 63 inches)

(2) Goliath of Gath
Goliath is the most famous giant in recorded history partly because of the engaging, inspiring story of him boasting and blaspheming against God for days and a young boy, David, who believes God can do all things, steps up and kills him with a stone and sling while King Saul and his army are trembling in their boots due to Goliath. How tall was Goliath?
1 Sam. 17:4 says “And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.”

McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia (“Goliath”): His height was “six cubits and a span,” which, taking the cubit at 21 inches, would make him 10 1/2 feet high

I would say the term Nephilim in the book of Numbers was hyperbole and not literal. The Canaanites had no Nephilim in them, the Nephilim were extinct.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

"Son" has multiple senses and can be "in the likeness of" such as when St. John called the Pharisees snake bastards or Jesus said their father was the devil.

"Sons of God" in these passages are the spiritual beings, some of which are angels (like Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, the cherubim, seraphim, other good spirits commonly all called "angels") and some are demons (all the fallen ones). Moses and Job do specify when they say "sons of God," that is the specification.

In context of Hebrews 1 and the study called angelology they are not souls or saints... they are a kind of creature with a perfect nature, but not a nature for intimacy with God as a son or eunuch. Maybe Paul in Hebrews teaches us that the angels are never called 'son'. They have different internal nature.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I think perhaps psalms 82 contradicts that thought ...

I see this Psalm mentions gods, and Adam and Eve were becoming gods of this world, but Satan stole that from them and is called the god of this world, who is losing this place back to us. It seems Israel were on path to being gods, but faulter and die as mortals.
Psalm 82
Young's Literal Translation
God Presides in the Great Assembly

1A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6I — I have said, ‘Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High — all of you,

7But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

New Living Translation Par ▾
A psalm of Asaph.



1God presides over heaven’s court;

he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:

2“How long will you hand down unjust decisions

by favoring the wicked?

Interlude



3“Give justice to the poor and the orphan;

uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.

4Rescue the poor and helpless;

deliver them from the grasp of evil people.

5But these oppressors know nothing;

they are so ignorant!

They wander about in darkness,

while the whole world is shaken to the core.

6I say, ‘You are gods;

you are all children of the Most High.

7But you will die like mere mortals

and fall like every other ruler.’”



8Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,

for all the nations belong to you.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I see this Psalm mentions gods, and Adam and Eve were becoming gods of this world, but Satan stole that from them and is called the god of this world, who is losing this place back to us. It seems Israel were on path to being gods, but faulter and die as mortals.
Psalm 82
Young's Literal Translation
God Presides in the Great Assembly

1A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6I — I have said, ‘Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High — all of you,

7But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

New Living Translation Par ▾
A psalm of Asaph.



1God presides over heaven’s court;

he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:

2“How long will you hand down unjust decisions

by favoring the wicked?

Interlude



3“Give justice to the poor and the orphan;

uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.

4Rescue the poor and helpless;

deliver them from the grasp of evil people.

5But these oppressors know nothing;

they are so ignorant!

They wander about in darkness,

while the whole world is shaken to the core.

6I say, ‘You are gods;

you are all children of the Most High.

7But you will die like mere mortals

and fall like every other ruler.’”



8Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,

for all the nations belong to you.

The translation is elohim, so there is more to the psalm than it meaning the fall because elohim was also used for making them in “our" image (before Adam, male and female, were created.)

6I have said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.’

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The translation is elohim, so there is more to the psalm than it meaning the fall because elohim was also used for making them in “our" image (before Adam, male and female, were created.)

6I have said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.’

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

God is rebuilding us to fellowship with Him, Them. These however in keeping with the OP, are not angels.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

God is rebuilding us to fellowship with Him, Them. These however in keeping with the OP, are not angels.

Not angels is definitely debatable but good luck with that.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Not angels is definitely debatable but good luck with that.

Okay. Angels as mentioned above by others are not born again or resurrected. They will not die like princes as in the whole of the Psalm. Focusing on vs 7.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Okay. Angels as mentioned above by others are not born again or resurrected. They will not die like princes as in the whole of the Psalm. Focusing on vs 7.

I’m just saying it would be more than speculative theory to say they may not have an eternal abode in the abyse.
As far as learning to fellowship with Them (His Holy Angels), as well as Him, I agree.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I’m just saying it would be more than speculative theory to say they may not have an eternal abode in the abyse.
As far as learning to fellowship with Them (His Holy Angels), as well as Him, I agree.

I am confident that this Psalm is not about angels. Because angels existed before corruption and "people", "Orphans"... Some of them made corruption and died before mortals existed. So they can't be like mortals.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I am confident that this Psalm is not about angels. Because angels existed before corruption and "people", "Orphans"... Some of them made corruption and died before mortals existed.

Then how do explain the term elohim if it does not in fact relate to elohim?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Then how do explain the term elohim if it does not in fact relate to elohim?

"El" means mighty, "im" means plural.
These souls were destined, possibly, to be mighty ones. Immortal, holy and glorious.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

"El" means mighty, "im" means plural.
These souls were destined, possibly, to be mighty ones. Immortal, holy and glorious.

I’m not following your reasoning so I’ll unsubscribe from here.

 

[BeyondET]

In Gen 6 it is the "people of God" that are the "sons of God" - the descendants of Seth - vs - the " daughters of men " - descendants of Cain -- unequally yoked destroyed true religion (the salt of the Earth destroyed -- then Earth destroyed in Gen 6 and 7

Adam had Seth in his own likeness and image and his descendants are of themselves too men.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Adam had Seth in his own likeness and image and his descendants are of themselves too men.

And also the daughters of Cain were daughters of God. Same as sons of God.