Angels or Sons of God?

d taylor

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Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV

Not a reference to other dead planets in our own solar system - but rather "other worlds" -- in the universe... in other solar systems

This is a good example of men trying to make the Bible agree with science. The world in english worlds
Here it is from Strongs

Greek Concordance: αἰῶνας (aiōnas) -- 32 Occurrences

Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age

Not really sure how they go from ages to the meaning worlds as in a planets, which is not supported by the Bible.
 
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BobRyan

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Yet I don't recall any remains of such 'giants' being found.

The Bible describes giants after the flood (King Og, Goliath..)

Num. 13:33:
“And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

1. The bible describes those two as 10 feet tall and 9 feet tall respectively -
2. Robert Wadlow - 8'11'' -- so almost 9 feet tall. Robert Wadlow - Wikipedia

"Ron Wyatt, on one of his first trips to the Ark site, discovered Noah's house and the grave of his wife, Mrs. Noah. He claims the sarcophagus was 18 feet tall" (Which is not a claim that Noah's wife was 18 feet tall - but at the very least - very tall... possibly 11 or 12 feet)

http://6000years.org/giants.html#:~:text=George W. Hill, M.D., dug out a skeleton,near Brewersville, Indiana (Indianapolis News, Nov 10, 1975).

Interview --
The Discovery of Noah's Wife's Grave.

Six min : 30 seconds into that video they show a human finger found - - left hand little finger, that is huge.

==================

(1) Og, the King of Bashan
Deut. 3:11 says of Og:
“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.”
While we are not given his height, the length of his bed was longer than Goliath’s height by three cubits. (Three Cubits would be 63 inches)

(2) Goliath of Gath
Goliath is the most famous giant in recorded history partly because of the engaging, inspiring story of him boasting and blaspheming against God for days and a young boy, David, who believes God can do all things, steps up and kills him with a stone and sling while King Saul and his army are trembling in their boots due to Goliath. How tall was Goliath?
1 Sam. 17:4 says “And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.”

McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia (“Goliath”): His height was “six cubits and a span,” which, taking the cubit at 21 inches, would make him 10 1/2 feet high
 
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BobRyan

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This is a good example of men trying to make the Bible agree with science.

No it isn't - Heb 1 has been quoted for centuries pointing to God as the creator of the "Worlds" when science had as yet not found any evidence at all that exo-planets even existed.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV
 
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d taylor

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No it isn't - Heb 1 has been quoted for centuries pointing to God as the creator of the "Worlds" when science had as yet not found any evidence at all that exo-planets even existed.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV

Who cares what man has made the Bible say. The fact is there is no support from the Bible for this greek word to be read in the english as worlds (planets).
If there is support from the Bible show it. i can show where Paul list God's creation and worlds(planets) are not mentioned.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

No mention of other worlds
 
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BobRyan

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But then that is where the creation ends sun, moon and stars no mention of planets being created. .

- Heb 1 has been quoted for centuries pointing to God as the creator of the "Worlds" when science had as yet not found any evidence at all that exo-planets even existed.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV

Who cares what man has made the Bible say.

When the bible does not agree with your assertions then "who cares" what it says??? seriously?

I assume that when the Bible says something in agreement with your preference - then that surely must not be a case of the Bible saying "what man has made it say"??

John 1:
10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

Luk 1:70
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: G165

Jhn 9:32
Since the world began G165 was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. G165

Act 15:18
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. G165

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world G165 hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds G165 were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Rev 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever G165 and ever. G165
 
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d taylor

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- Heb 1 has been quoted for centuries pointing to God as the creator of the "Worlds" when science had as yet not found any evidence at all that exo-planets even existed.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;NKJV



When the bible does not agree with your assertions then "who cares" what it says??? seriously?

I assume that when the Bible says something in agreement with your preference - then that surely must not be a case of the Bible saying "what man has made it say"??

Again all you have to do is support your belief, is show that the Bible supports what you are saying, from other areas and verses in The Bible.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Who cares what man has made the Bible say. The fact is there is no support from the Bible for this greek word to be read in the english as worlds (planets).
If there is support from the Bible show it. i can show where Paul list God's creation and worlds(planets) are not mentioned.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

No mention of other worlds
It should happen that science and the word of God are in agreement. This may need thought and insight. Even science can effect how to interpret the Bible. For example Genesis creation story. Not having sciences like geology, physics, biology, chemistry, and archaeology even astronomy we make a literal interpretation of Genesis, taking it as science itself. But after observing, without doubting, we can re-interpret Genesis as not intended by Moses and our fathers as science, but a summary containing ordered accounts of the truth. The truth leading to the Messiah, not biology...
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Again all you have to do is support your belief, is show that the Bible supports what you are saying, from other areas and verses in The Bible.
That is why I quoted Job 1 and pointed out that Satan identifies himself among the sons, as from the Earth, they are not from the Earth.

And Genesis 1 tells of the Heavens and we can see local and out of our solar system planets, including one that is twelve times as big as Jupiter. Thinking also Jude mentions wandering stars. Normal stars wander, so he could be referring to a planet.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Again all you have to do is support your belief, is show that the Bible supports what you are saying, from other areas and verses in The Bible.
Hebrews 1 YLT
1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, 2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;

I suppose people consider the rocks and rivers and tides and moon when they consider the ages, ancient lands.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Who cares what man has made the Bible say. The fact is there is no support from the Bible for this greek word to be read in the english as worlds (planets).
If there is support from the Bible show it. i can show where Paul list God's creation and worlds(planets) are not mentioned.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

No mention of other worlds
A celestial body is a star, and a terrestrial body is a planet. Out of context though.
 
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TedT

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Hebrews 1 tells us no no angels will be called "son" but they are only ever servants.
Excuse me but imCo it says to me that the Divine Son, our redeemer, the Messiah, is not an angel, ie, a created messenger, as the Muslims claim.

Angel is NOT a race or type of person since it is only a job description.

Job 38:7 Tells us that ALL the Sons of GOD sang HIS praises when they witnessed the creation of the physical universe, the proof of HIS Divinity and power as mentioned in Rom 1:18-20. If you are a son of GOD then this verse can properly be read to say that you were there singing your heart out in praise of HIS deity and power at the creation. If you do not interpret this verse to mean this then you have already accepted a different idea as true that forestalls you from accepting this interpretation...in other words, you are putting your interpretation on the verse, not accepting what the verse says, just like those bible translators that translate sons of GOD as angels to push their interpretation upon us so we do not fall into believing we lived before the creation of the universe and saw it happen.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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True but consider the following
1. Gen 6 does NOT say that only those who intermarried where large.
2. Nephilim were before the flood and after the flood according to Genesis which means Noah was Nephilim.
3. All the people before the flood lived for 100's of years - almost a thousand years in most cases and all of them were somewhat larger than mankind is today.
Noah could not have been Nephilim, if you consider that God wanted to destroy all of them, as unacceptable half casts, since their fathers were not Adamic and could not be restored the ruling of the Earth. And because they were inwardly far too violent.
 
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d taylor

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That is why I quoted Job 1 and pointed out that Satan identifies himself among the sons, as from the Earth, they are not from the Earth.

And Genesis 1 tells of the Heavens and we can see local and out of our solar system planets, including one that is twelve times as big as Jupiter. Thinking also Jude mentions wandering stars. Normal stars wander, so he could be referring to a planet.

Satan walked in the garden of God, not some distant world.
 
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TedT

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They are not born again, into sonship...
They are not born again into sonship because they have no need to be born again - they are holy by choice and have never sinned and so are elected.

Some angels are elect:
1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. implying the fallen angels are demons and the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels. This verse contrasts the of evil of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and a robot neither can be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous.
 
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BobRyan

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Noah could not have been Nephilim if you consider that God wanted to destroy all of them,

1. No text says that only the mixed marriages (Seth and Cain's descendents intermarry) - were Nephilim.
2. No text says God wanted to "destroy all Nephilim".
3. No text says that "being a Nephilim is a sin"

as unacceptable half casts, since their fathers were not Adamic

4. No text says "Nephilim were not descendants of Adam".

The assertions you are making to support your conclusion - don't come from the Bible... and that leaves a huge gap in the support for your conclusion.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Excuse me but imCo it says to me that the Divine Son, our redeemer, the Messiah, is not an angel, ie, a created messenger, as the Muslims claim.

Angel is NOT a race or type of person since it is only a job description.

Job 38:7 Tells us that ALL the Sons of GOD sang HIS praises when they witnessed the creation of the physical universe, the proof of HIS Divinity and power as mentioned in Rom 1:18-20. If you are a son of GOD then this verse can properly be read to say that you were there singing your heart out in praise of HIS deity and power at the creation. If you do not interpret this verse to mean this then you have already accepted a different idea as true that forestalls you from accepting this interpretation...in other words, you are putting your interpretation on the verse, not accepting what the verse says, just like those bible translators that translate sons of GOD as angels to push their interpretation upon us so we do not fall into believing we lived before the creation of the universe and saw it happen.

I would interpret all the sons of God, to be those that existed at the time, that the verse you quote, mentions the morning stars sang. But also consider pre-conception existence is real.
 
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BobRyan

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A celestial body is a star, and a terrestrial body is a planet.

Ok - but God made "the worlds" as we see in Heb 1:2 and in Hebrews 11:3

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds G165 were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Satan walked in the garden of God, not some distant world.
At the time of the assembly, this strange figure appeared representing Earth with others from many worlds as above quoted, Hebrews 11:3
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Ok - but God made "the worlds" as we see in Heb 1:2 and in Hebrews 11:3

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds G165 were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Yes I have already agreed and long been fascinated by worlds outside our solar system.
 
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