Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[Aldebaran]

While you ignore the data around your area and around the country you live in, which is more likely to affect you. Doesn't do much to help your point to use Israel while ignoring other, more relevant data.

As even the NYTimes has pointed out, Israel's way of dealing with Covid was held up as a model for how the rest of the world should deal with it. But now that cases of Covid are surging there, it should be held up as a lesson to be learned from rather than ignored because the results didn't fit our expectations.
Israel, Once the Model for Beating Covid, Faces New Surge of Infections

 

[BigDaddy4]

As even the NYTimes has pointed out, Israel's way of dealing with Covid was held up as a model for how the rest of the world should deal with it. But now that cases of Covid are surging there, it should be held up as a lesson to be learned from rather than ignored because the results didn't fit our expectations.
Israel, Once the Model for Beating Covid, Faces New Surge of Infections

Things change as new information and data is collected. Get over it already. In my area, hospitals are filling to capacity with 80-95% unvaccinated patients, depending on location. Idaho, our neighbor state, is filled to capacity in some of their hospitals and are sending patients to our state for treatment.

Jesus said "Fear not..." many times in the Bible, yet a lot of Christians seem to be perpetuating the fearmongering.

 

[Aldebaran]

Things change as new information and data is collected. Get over it already. In my area, hospitals are filling to capacity with 80-95% unvaccinated patients, depending on location. Idaho, our neighbor state, is filled to capacity in some of their hospitals and are sending patients to our state for treatment.

Funny how we're told to go by "the data" until it isn't supporting the popular narrative. It's always been popular to say, "Get the shot, return to normal", even when it is shown that people with the shot are in the hospitals and morgues.

Jesus said "Fear not..." many times in the Bible, yet a lot of Christians seem to be perpetuating the fearmongering.

Showing that a vaccine isn't stopping people from ending up hospitalized or dead isn't fearmongering. It's simply showing you reality, just as Jesus was unpopular for doing.

 

[KCfromNC]

And Israel is at the highest rates of infection since the beginning of the pandemic.

Recently had a 7-day average of 10,128 on September 6 whereas the previous high before vaccines was 8,395 on Jan 14.

It may have curbed Covid deaths somewhat but certainly not by anywhere near 90%. The 7-day average of Covid deaths peaked recently at 30, wheras they peaked in January at 62.

It's unclear if they've reached the peak of this wave or if it will start to go down again.

Israel COVID: 1,211,443 Cases and 7,494 Deaths - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

That's nice. What does it have to do with the subject?

 

[KCfromNC]

Some people focus on what happens in real life, while others are more impressed by squiggly lines and numbers on a page. Take your pick.

I guess cherry-picked unverified anecdotes are more compatible with some points of view.

 

[KCfromNC]

If a hospital filled up with players after each game due to concussions while wearing a helmet, it would certainly call into question the effectiveness of the helmet being used.

Without comparing it to some sort of baseline, it could also just be that the game is dangerous.

 

[KCfromNC]

As even the NYTimes has pointed out, Israel's way of dealing with Covid was held up as a model for how the rest of the world should deal with it. But now that cases of Covid are surging there

Yep, in populations which have lower vaccination rates. Funny how that works.

 

[Aldebaran]

I guess cherry-picked unverified anecdotes are more compatible with some points of view.

Just as squiggly lines drawn by a drug company exec. impresses the masses.

 

[Aldebaran]

Without comparing it to some sort of baseline, it could also just be that the game is dangerous.

A fatalistic view. If you want to keep this analogy going, then your conclusion is that we should be able to get on with our lives as normal and accept that life is dangerous.

 

[KCfromNC]

Just as squiggly lines drawn by a drug company exec. impresses the masses.

Oh, look, more made up stuff to try and distract from the earlier made up stuff. That's not going to convince people that there's any substance behind anti-vaxx propaganda.

 

[KCfromNC]

A fatalistic view.

No, an accurate view. A single number in isolation isn't a great way to tell if something is effective. Potentially good for rationalizing a predetermined conclusion, but not a particularly honest approach towards understanding the data.

If you want to keep this analogy going, then your conclusion is that we should be able to get on with our lives as normal and accept that life is dangerous.

Given the contents of your other posts, I'm not confident I should trust a post telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yep, in populations which have lower vaccination rates. Funny how that works.

As you have already been taught, Israel has a vaccination percentage of more than 80%.
Here's some squiggly lines to prove it:
Israel: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps

 

[Aldebaran]

No, an accurate view. A single number in isolation isn't a great way to tell if something is effective. Potentially good for rationalizing a predetermined conclusion, but not a particularly honest approach towards understanding the data.

What "single number" are you referring to?

Given the contents of your other posts, I'm not confident I should trust a post telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

Then what is your conclusion?

 

[JacksBratt]

As with the others, I will not be an early adopter. Will wait and see how it works on those volunteering (and being mandated) to be guinea pigs.

Actually, the Novavax has been run through the tests and trials that Phiser and Moderna were not. That is why it is a late comer. Phiser and Moderna were allowed under emergency distribution which made us all guinea pigs. Novavax is different. But, you won't hear about it. The entire vaccine deal is a money printing machine.

 

[whatbogsends]

That's nice. What does it have to do with the subject?

You were telling us how effective the vaccination is. When it was shown that Israel had high rates of vaccinated in the hospitals, your rebuttal was that they have a high rate of vaccination. I responded by showing that despite a high rate of vaccination, they are having their worst rate of infection throughout the entire pandemic.

That you think it's somehow unrelated only shows that you are completely unable or unwilling to understand logical constructs when they don't suit your agenda.

 

[Aldebaran]

Actually, the Novavax has been run through the tests and trials that Phiser and Moderna were not. That is why it is a late comer. Phiser and Moderna were allowed under emergency distribution which made us all guinea pigs. Novavax is different. But, you won't hear about it. The entire vaccine deal is a money printing machine.

It might be worth a look then when they come up with a point in time when they say J&J risk-takers are due for a booster.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Funny how we're told to go by "the data" until it isn't supporting the popular narrative. It's always been popular to say, "Get the shot, return to normal", even when it is shown that people with the shot are in the hospitals and morgues.



Showing that a vaccine isn't stopping people from ending up hospitalized or dead isn't fearmongering. It's simply showing you reality, just as Jesus was unpopular for doing.

It is fearmongering, no matter how much you deny it. No one has ever said the vaccines are 100% protection against Covid, or even 100% against a re-infection. But the DATA shows you are much less likely to get Covid if you are vaccinated. The DATA also show that if you are vaccinated and you do get Covid, you're symptoms are less likely to be severe than the unvaccinated, less likely to die, and are less likely to spread Covid. LESS LIKELY. Get it? The more less likely's there are, the sooner the virus can go away.

Quit spreading the fear with your "yeah buts" and "whatabouts", please, and heed the words of Jesus to "Fear not". Doing your part, as a Christian, to reduce the transmission of a deadly disease is part of the 2nd greatest commandment to "love others". The worst case scenario of dying from a vaccine should not be a concern for you, as a Christian, since you know where you'll end up when you do die.

 

[BigDaddy4]

For those with a fascination with Israel, here is something to consider:

Israel's 17% unvaccinated now account for 65% of all serious COVID-19 cases
Those that have yet to receive even one shot of a COVID vaccine are only 17 percent of the eligible population in Israel, but they currently represent 65 percent of all serious cases in the country.

As of September 13, out of the 664 severely ill patients, 437 were completely unvaccinated and 168 had received two doses. Only 59 had received the booster shot. The ratios are similar when analyzing new infections.

When calculating per capita, the contrast is even more stark. For every serious case of an Israeli over 60 that had received the booster shot, there are 33 serious cases of unvaccinated Israelis in the same age group.

Oh, and some squiggly lines too:

Hmmm. The squiggly lines tell me serious vaccinated cases are going down, while serious UNVACCINATED cases are going up. In Israel. Thousands of miles away. I wonder how that compares to other parts of the world that posters on this thread are from???

 

[SimplyMe]

That's nice. While getting that natural immunity, how much more likely is it that unvaccinated covid victims end up in the hospital or dead than vaccinated people?


Yes, they're putting quite a strain on medical resources, taking them away from people responsible enough to get vaccinated.

I think one issue that gets forgotten, the big issue is not that resources are taken from the vaccinated, but that they are taken from the non-COVID sick. A few weeks ago, there were two stories from different states (I believe on in Texas and one in Kansas) of individuals that sought emergency care but ultimately died because there was no room in the hospitals -- every bed was taken up by COVID patients. In both cases, they sought out any available hospital in the US but both died before they could get treatment. And before that there was the article of the man in Oklahoma who had to be sent to Boise, ID, because it was the closest available hospital bed -- and it wouldn't be possible today, as Idaho has no spare beds.

And with the way these types of news stories work, the fact we heard of two examples means there are likely hundreds -- just that either the family didn't want the press or couldn't find someone in the press to show interest in their story.

The fear of COVID cases, and even the primary reason for the lockdowns, was not solely to contain the spread of the virus but to prevent our hospitals from being overwhelmed to the point where people, whether sick with COVID, or any other disease, can get the care they need. That isn't currently the case in many states. I had a brother die of cancer last year and his death is at least partly to blame from COVID. My brother was an individual who fought cancer for years (I believe about 7), where they controlled the cancer but it never went into remission. The issue is that for months last year, because of hospital overcrowding due to COVID, they did not have the staff or resources available (particularly nurses) to give ongoing care to people with other diseases.

 

[Aldebaran]

It is fearmongering, no matter how much you deny it. No one has ever said the vaccines are 100% protection against Covid, or even 100% against a re-infection. But the DATA shows you are much less likely to get Covid if you are vaccinated. The DATA also show that if you are vaccinated and you do get Covid, you're symptoms are less likely to be severe than the unvaccinated, less likely to die, and are less likely to spread Covid. LESS LIKELY. Get it? The more less likely's there are, the sooner the virus can go away.

Quit spreading the fear with your "yeah buts" and "whatabouts", please, and heed the words of Jesus to "Fear not". Doing your part, as a Christian, to reduce the transmission of a deadly disease is part of the 2nd greatest commandment to "love others". The worst case scenario of dying from a vaccine should not be a concern for you, as a Christian, since you know where you'll end up when you do die.

Loving others also means respecting their right to not inject themselves with questionable substances. Practice that one.