Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

This is true of both hospitalizations and deaths:



Cases | NC COVID-19

specific to deaths:



However, we see that 94% of covid deaths have a 2.9 comorbidity: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

As per the CDC, only 6% of deaths were listed as "covid only" deaths.

There is no indication that the reason they're in the hospital in the first place is directly caused by a covid infection. After all, if they test positive and are in the hospital, for any reason whatsoever, then that's a positive covid hospitalization.

So what? your link is just to a list of other things that are listed on the death certificates, If you contract pneumonia as a result of your covid infection and that is listed then you are not part of your 6 % if your inability to breath causes a heart attack, then you are not part of the 6%. It does not mean what you think it does.

 

[98cwitr]

Yeah, serious covid has some pretty bad systemic effects. Or are you claiming that there's a lot of people who had covid and also coincidentally, inexplicably, had an unrelated case of pneumonia?

Not sure what that proves, though, given that the site you quoted earlier says this is how they count deaths:

COVID-19 deaths include people who have had a positive molecular (PCR) or antigen test for COVID-19, who died without fully recovering from COVID-19, and who had no alternative cause of death identified. Deaths are reported by hospitals and clinicians directly to the local and state health departments. Once reported, NCDHHS or LHD staff manually enter the death by date of death, into NC COVID.
​

Lots of people died because of pneumonia pre-covid; but here we are to believe otherwise?

 

[KCfromNC]

Lots of people died because of pneumonia pre-covid; but here we are to believe otherwise?

What does this have to do with the fact your own source says something different than you said that they did?

Remember, here's what your source says they use to count covid deaths :

COVID-19 deaths include people who have had a positive molecular (PCR) or antigen test for COVID-19, who died without fully recovering from COVID-19, and who had no alternative cause of death identified.

 

[98cwitr]

So what? your link is just to a list of other things that are listed on the death certificates, If you contract pneumonia as a result of your covid infection and that is listed then you are not part of your 6 % if your inability to breath causes a heart attack, then you are not part of the 6%. It does not mean what you think it does.

Again, there's no causal data, it's all correlary. Sure, we could assume the covid deaths are causal, but without the evidence, someone could have been asymptomatic with covid, had bronchitis, died from pneumonia, but then counted as a covid death for no other reason than the PCR test was positive; which, from the mouth of the inventor, said PCR tests should not be used to diagnose any disease.

 

[98cwitr]

What does this have to do with the fact your own source says something different than you said that they did?

Remember, here's what your source says they use to count covid deaths :

COVID-19 deaths include people who have had a positive molecular (PCR) or antigen test for COVID-19, who died without fully recovering from COVID-19, and who had no alternative cause of death identified.

Because that determination is purely based on a positive PCR or antigen test and nothing more.

 

[KCfromNC]

Because that determination is purely based on a positive PCR or antigen test and nothing more.

That's not true. There are 3 conditions listed here, testing is only one of the 3.

COVID-19 deaths include people who have had a positive molecular (PCR) or antigen test for COVID-19, who died without fully recovering from COVID-19, and who had no alternative cause of death identified.

Edited to add, your previous COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC source also breaks out actual cases differently from just people who tested positive. Seems to be a pattern here of your sources disagreeing with the claims in your post.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you want more people to get vaccinated, you need to convince them to do so.

That’s how it works.

Yeah, having to sign a waiver before you can get vaccinated isn’t very reassuring.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yeah, having to sign a waiver before you can get vaccinated isn’t very reassuring.

You have to sign a waiver for a good many things.

 

[98cwitr]

That's not true. There are 3 conditions listed here, testing is only one of the 3.

COVID-19 deaths include people who have had a positive molecular (PCR) or antigen test for COVID-19, who died without fully recovering from COVID-19, and who had no alternative cause of death identified.

Edited to add, your previous COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC source also breaks out actual cases differently from just people who tested positive. Seems to be a pattern here of your sources disagreeing with the claims in your post.

Verified: Yes, COVID-reported deaths must list COVID on death certificate | wfmynews2.com

Yes, it is true COVID-reported deaths are from COVID-19, but in many cases, COVID is the contributing, not the immediate, cause of death.

The physician must determine those factors and record them on the death certificate.

He concluded, "Usually, that would be recorded as a stroke as the primary cause and COVID as the supporting or contributing factor. Those would then be counted (as COVID deaths)."

 

[Hans Blaster]

which, from the mouth of the inventor, said PCR tests should not be used to diagnose any disease.

First, inventors are the final arbitrators how how their inventions are used.

Second, the inventor of PCR didn't invent a test, but rather a method for amplifying (copying) DNA strands.

However the COVID "PCR tests" work, the "PCR" part is about amplifying the DNA in the sample (such a saliva or mucus) so that there is enough DNA for the actual diagnostic method to detect.

THis does not invalidate "PCR tests" in any way.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is true of both hospitalizations and deaths:



Cases | NC COVID-19

specific to deaths:



However, we see that 94% of covid deaths have a 2.9 comorbidity: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

As per the CDC, only 6% of deaths were listed as "covid only" deaths.

There is no indication that the reason they're in the hospital in the first place is directly caused by a covid infection. After all, if they test positive and are in the hospital, for any reason whatsoever, then that's a positive covid hospitalization.

Yes that’s another problem is the number of people who are hospitalized due to COVID are being inflated because they’re not differentiating between those who have been hospitalized FOR COVID from those who are being hospitalized WITH COVID. So anyone going to the hospital for any other reason other than being infected with COVID are being categorized as patients hospitalized with COVID when they’re not even in the hospital because they have COVID they’re in there for something else.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

Again, there's no causal data, it's all correlary. Sure, we could assume the covid deaths are causal, but without the evidence, someone could have been asymptomatic with covid, had bronchitis, died from pneumonia, but then counted as a covid death for no other reason than the PCR test was positive; which, from the mouth of the inventor, said PCR tests should not be used to diagnose any disease.

Which is why excess deaths can be used as a measure. If not covid, what is your explanation for all of the excess mortality in the world since the outbreak of the corona virus.

At this point, your argument is just denialism. it is a deadly disease, it is overunning your state and overloading your hospitals and there is an effective vaccine to bring it under control but for some reason you seem to want to deny this.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes that’s another problem is the number of people who are hospitalized due to COVID are being inflated because they’re not differentiating between those who have been hospitalized FOR COVID from those who are being hospitalized WITH COVID. So anyone going to the hospital for any other reason other than being infected with COVID are being categorized as patients hospitalized with COVID when they’re not even in the hospital because they have COVID they’re in there for something else.

These are at best edge cases and the counting can be a bit fuzzy. But miscounting or misattributing hospitalized patients as COVID patients when COVID is a minor or non-cause of their hospital stay does NOT explain why hospitals are filling up with patients.

 

[KCfromNC]

Verified: Yes, COVID-reported deaths must list COVID on death certificate | wfmynews2.com

Pretty impressive attempt at selectively quoting the article. But even so :

"The physician must determine those factors and record them on the death certificate."

Seems to contradict your previous claim "Because that determination is purely based on a positive PCR or antigen test and nothing more."

If it were just a positive vs. negative test result, why the need for a physician's judgement about the overall case?

 

[KCfromNC]

Yes that’s another problem is the number of people who are hospitalized due to COVID are being inflated because they’re not differentiating between those who have been hospitalized FOR COVID from those who are being hospitalized WITH COVID. So anyone going to the hospital for any other reason other than being infected with COVID are being categorized as patients hospitalized with COVID when they’re not even in the hospital because they have COVID they’re in there for something else.

That's not what's reported here, for example COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

There it specifically breaks out people who came in for unrelated issues and tested positive as separate from covid-related admissions.

 

[iluvatar5150]

In my state, there are 10k current infections of covid, 3.5k hospitalizations, and a total population of 10M people; as a fraction of the total number of total population between the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.

Again, those death numbers are correlary, not causal.

I don't know where on earth you're getting your numbers, but you're very, very wrong. Your state has been getting 6,000-7,000 new cases per day:
North Carolina COVID: 1,303,390 Cases and 15,247 Deaths - Worldometer

That number of hospitalizations is for new hospitalizations in the last week, not total.
https://healthdata.gov/Community/COVID-19-State-Profile-Report-North-Carolina/23cf-8ity

 

[BNR32FAN]

You have to sign a waiver for a good many things.

Here take this medicine it’s safe, just remember I’m not legally liable for anything bad that happens to ya.

 

[Hammster]

I think we have very different ideas about what is good. I want a disease that is killing a thousand people a day and has 0.3% of Americans currently in a hospital bed to stop, and you want to force people to go to your church. The government has a clear interest in lessening the disease and the harm it brings and is *PROHIBITED* from forcing people to participate in a specific religion (or any religion). [What is "reformed baptist" anyway? Did they go back to infants?]

Actually, I want all to repent and believe the gospel. That is far more important than saving lives in this world.

 

[BNR32FAN]

These are at best edge cases and the counting can be a bit fuzzy. But miscounting or misattributing hospitalized patients as COVID patients when COVID is a minor or non-cause of their hospital stay does NOT explain why hospitals are filling up with patients.

No I’d say it’s more from complacency and mask mandates and social distancing being lifted.

 

[Hammster]

You have to sign a waiver for a good many things.

How many of those aren’t voluntary?