Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[ArmenianJohn]

Covid Live Updates: Biden Unveils Vaccine Mandate Plan Covering Two-Thirds of U.S. Workers

Better late than never, I suppose... Although I think he will be strict on enforcement, but I hope he proves me wrong on that.

It should have been made mandatory months ago, June at the latest.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm fully vaccinated. My choice. However, what threat to me is an non vaccinated individual?

What happened to the mantra shouted by those in favor of abortion..... "My body... my choice"?

Guess that didn't age well... Or... it's a double standard.

So you support "my body, my choice"??? Are you pro-choice?

 

[Hans Blaster]

How does requiring the vaccine for remote employees (who have no physical contact with other workers) reduce transmissions in the workplace?

For "normal" employers (not US Govt, US Govt contractors, medical facilities receiving Medicare/caid payments) it is vaccinate, or weekly test. The test can be require of any employee entering a company facility once per week. One would not need testing if they were on a 2-week vacation either.

So there's your loop hole. Work remotely and get tested if you enter a company workspace occupied by other workers. Now you are free to infect about the community. Congrats.

 

[BBAS 64]

Texas is out.... Special session will be Monday.

 

[BBAS 64]

So you support "my body, my choice"??? Are you pro-choice?

Yes, just make the right choice with your own, and leave other body's that are not yours alone.

 

[Brihaha]

Funny thing.... Biden stated that he would never do this. Pelosi stated that they can't... But.. time goes by....

Biden did not say he WOULDN'T mandate vaccinations. He said he didn't want to make them mandatory. Giving Americans the choice to do the right thing to help America recover from the pandemic. Many Americans refused to get vaccinated and are actually helping the coronavirus linger and kill our neighbors unnecessarily. This is why we need a leader willing to protect ALL Americans by making tough decisions that ignore politics and consequences for the next election. Some things are more important than political maneuvering for votes!

 

[iluvatar5150]

You don’t have to enforce a libertarian policy. That’s why it isn’t tyranny.

Sure you do. Libertarianism still has rules and mechanisms to enforce its rules.

And if it weren't, the claim would still work just fine as a justification for suspending all Constitutional liberties and who knows what else. We already have heard some voices in this country talking about re-education camps, and look what's happening in Australia.

And, by the way, I'll bet that even those people who support such moves have some activity that means a lot to them personally, something they are still free to pursue, who would be outraged if the government were to say about such activity, "No more of that. People are dying!"

It might not be the right to free speech because only conservatives are restricted there. It might not be church attendance because not everyone is a churchgoer. And it might not be the prohibition against traveling outside the country (or one's home state, as has been floated as a possibility) because not everyone wants or needs to travel. But there's something...and when it's banned, THEN what was okay when it affected other people will suddenly seem unjust.

Yeah, there's that slippery slope. The nice thing about having a pragmatic, human-oriented view of rights (as opposed to a belief in "natural rights" bestowed by God/nature) is that you can do cost/benefit analysis of policies and see whether or not their benefits warrant incurring their costs. Given that this mandate has the potential to save tens of thousands of people for a fairly minimal cost, I think it's clearly justifiable.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes, just make the right choice with your own, and leave other body's that are not yours alone.

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I agree - that's why we need to enforce people make the right choice to get the vaccine so that they can leave other bodies alone by not spreading the virus. So you're pro-vaccine mandate like me!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

[Staff Edited quote in cleanup]

I work at a hospital. When Covid hit our facility, the first person was a staff member in our residential rehab program. In a few days, we had 25 active cases in a program that houses about 200-230 people at a given time. The hospital had to find alternative housing for these residents. We opened up a Covid floor ten beds about a month later, which had to be converted from medical offices, to negative pressure rooms. We typically had 6-8 patients for most of last year. We had a huge celebration when we released our first Covid ICU patient who had been in the ICU for 6 weeks, 3 weeks of which were on a ventilator. Our medical staff are exhausted from fighting Covid themselves and backfilling for others or working tons of OT. Due to staff retiring or leaving the profession, we are short 100 positions out of 700 just in nursing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I work at a hospital. When Covid hit our facility, the first person was a staff member in our residential rehab program. In a few days, we had 25 active cases in a program that houses about 200-230 people at a given time. The hospital had to find alternative housing for these residents. We opened up a Covid floor ten beds about a month later, which had to be converted from medical offices, to negative pressure rooms. We typically had 6-8 patients for most of last year. We had a huge celebration when we released our first Covid ICU patient who had been in the ICU for 6 weeks, 3 weeks of which were on a ventilator. Our medical staff are exhausted from fighting Covid themselves and backfilling for others or working tons of OT. Due to staff retiring or leaving the profession, we are short 100 positions out of 700 just in nursing.

Cool story.

So are you trying to tell me that it only hurts the people who choose not to get vaccinated? Or are you telling me that you don't want to deal with that kind of situation again?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Texas is out.... Special session will be Monday.

View attachment 305683

That's not how the supremacy clause works.

 

[whatbogsends]

For "normal" employers (not US Govt, US Govt contractors, medical facilities receiving Medicare/caid payments) it is vaccinate, or weekly test. The test can be require of any employee entering a company facility once per week. One would not need testing if they were on a 2-week vacation either.

So there's your loop hole. Work remotely and get tested if you enter a company workspace occupied by other workers. Now you are free to infect about the community. Congrats.

What's funny about this is that multiple pro-vaccine people have indicated they've had Covid (some more than once) including after the vaccine. I, on the other hand, have never had Covid (and have a negative antibody test to prove it).

I'm not one of those spreading the virus to the community. That would be some of your fellow pro-vaccine posters who have been a vector in spread.

 

[whatbogsends]

I agree - that's why we need to enforce people make the right choice to get the vaccine so that they can leave other bodies alone by not spreading the virus. So you're pro-vaccine mandate like me!

The vaccinated also spread the virus.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Cool story.

So are you trying to tell me that it only hurts the people who choose not to get vaccinated? Or are you telling me that you don't want to deal with that kind of situation again?

If someone is simply refusing vaccination because they dont want to be "experimented" on, I hate to tell them this, but they are in the experiment. You're known as the control group. If someone cannot get a vaccine because of other medical conditions, the unvaccinated DO affect them.

This pandemic has had a major effects on hospital staff. They are already stressed out and quitting faster than we can replace them. We've had patients that refuse to acknowledge that Covid is real, even as they were gasping for air and being put on a vent. We've had patients threaten to kill our staff when we tell them they have to wear a mask. Some of my friends are now struggling with long-term health issues from contracting Covid and now have damaged lungs. Since we are short staffed, we can't open up more beds. So we're now starting to delay elective surgeries again, even though the surgery might be life changing such as a joint replacement.

We have an addition to the litanies every Sunday

For our deliverance from all affliction, wrath, danger and distress, and from the peril of the coronavirus against us, let us pray to the Lord. ( Lord, have mercy. )

For our brethren, those who lead the fight against the coronavirus, the doctors, the medical workers and the scientists, let us pray to the Lord. ( Lord, have mercy. )

 

[Albion]

Sure you do. Libertarianism still has rules and mechanisms to enforce its rules.

How can a system that explicitly allows complete freedom of action save only that a person is not allowed to defraud someone else or use force against them be at all what you're talking about?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

....here's one view:

"...the Supreme Court resolved the issue of mandatory vaccinations in 1905, ruling 7-2 in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that they were constitutional.

The Constitution “does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint,” Justice John Marshall Harlan, known for defending civil liberties, wrote. “Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

"...upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

Vaccination Mandates Are an American Tradition. So Is the Backlash.

The 1905 ruling determined that a state can require vaccinations or institute a fine. It was not over the federal government instituting fines. But the fine that was argued over was $5 or about $150 today. A fine of $14,000 is unreasonable and is probably not constitutional.

 

[NxNW]

Yes, just make the right choice with your own, and leave other body's that are not yours alone.

View attachment 305684

The baby in the photo appears to be well past the first trimester, which means the photo is irrelevant.

 

[NxNW]

The vaccinated also spread the virus.

But they rarely take up hospital beds.

 

[wing2000]

The 1905 ruling determined that a state can require vaccinations or institute a fine. It was not over the federal government instituting fines. But the fine that was argued over was $5 or about $150 today. A fine of $14,000 is unreasonable and is probably not constitutional.

True, but who is to say a "community" is limited to a state?

"...upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

 

[Hammster]

Sure you do. Libertarianism still has rules and mechanisms to enforce its rules.

Such as?