One Reason to Reject Amill Doctrine

[jeffweedaman]

Maybe you should take your own advice?

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Do you think any of this involves His 2nd coming?

Yes Sure.

It climaxes with his 2nd coming , as the ministry of regeneration is now in our hands

2cor 5.

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.




The word that Jesus already spoke will judge them the last day ,and we ought to be preaching his same words until the end comes at his glorious appearing.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Which words
there are 4 gospels and the book of Revelation full of them, along with preincarnation appearances in the Old Testament.
again you're being vague.
It's like saying "so what do you think about the thing?" "what thing?" "you know, the thing"

I told you ,his coming and the words he spoke concerning it in the Gospels.

 

[Jamdoc]

Thanks for the confirmation of what I've just said.

Unless one knew the spiritual truth of Revelation 12:9, one would not know that Satan was present in Genesis 3:15.

Because the literal word "Satan" does not literally appear therein.

The bible interprets its own symbols, But amillennialists have taken to interpret the 1000 years as a symbol on their own, without any scriptural basis for doing so. There's no verse saying "the 1000 years, which is even the time since the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to heaven" or anything along those lines to explain it as a symbol. You've chosen to interpret it as a symbol YOURSELF.

 

[Jamdoc]

I told you ,his coming and the words he spoke concerning it in the Gospels.

That's a lot of words and nothing specific.

You're being annoyingly vague at this point
"You know, the things Jesus said"
"which things"
"You know, the words!"
"which words"
"You know, the words!"
that's going nowhere.

 

[jgr]

The bible interprets its own symbols, But amillennialists have taken to interpret the 1000 years as a symbol on their own, without any scriptural basis for doing so. There's no verse saying "the 1000 years, which is even the time since the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to heaven" or anything along those lines to explain it as a symbol. You've chosen to interpret it as a symbol YOURSELF.

There's no 1000 years in Genesis 3:15.

And there's no Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted literally.

But there certainly is Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted spiritually.

Which requires spiritual discernment.

Which is a rarity in the futurist camp.

 

[jeffweedaman]

That's a lot of words and nothing specific.

You're being annoyingly vague at this point
"You know, the things Jesus said"
"which things"
"You know, the words!"
"which words"
"You know, the words!"
that's going nowhere.

 

[jeffweedaman]

That's a lot of words and nothing specific.

You should be aware of where Jesus spoke about his coming.
Put your premill twist to those words only if you can.
I do not need to spell this out for you. The Lord will spell it out for you if you fix your eyes on his teaching regarding his coming..

 

[DavidPT]

The word that Jesus already spoke will judge them the last day ,and we ought to be preaching his same words until the end comes at his glorious appearing.

If Amil is the correct position what would be the point of doing that all the way up to His 2nd coming when the doors to salvation would be closed once the thousand years end? No one that did not already have part in the first resurrection could possibly have part in it during satan's little season since one obviously can't reign with Christ a thousand years during satan's little season if that thousand years is then in the past. Which brings up something else. What about those in heaven allegedly reigning with Christ a thousand years? How can they still be doing that once the thousand years expire back on earth?

 

[jeffweedaman]

If Amil is the correct position what would be the point of doing that all the way up to His 2nd coming when the doors to salvation would be closed once the thousand years end?

Repent or perish before he comes again is the Lords advice.
The point is that we are in a position to do this...,


Jude
17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

24 Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory, blameless with great joy, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority before all time and now and forever. Amen.

 

[Jamdoc]

There's no 1000 years in Genesis 3:15.

And there's no Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted literally.

But there certainly is Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted spiritually.

Which requires spiritual discernment.

Which is a rarity in the futurist camp.

You're really not getting it.
Satan is in Genesis 3:15 literally because Revelation 12:9 explains that symbol.
You don't have to guess "spiritually" because the bible decodes its own symbols.

The 1000 years is from Revelation 20, and is not explained in context as a symbol, nor is it used as a symbol anywhere else in scripture.
Instead you have chosen to define it as a symbol yourself, without God telling you it's a symbol.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Hello Samantha



Wow really not one of these is amill unless you ignore what they wrote and select a single line out of context. Some one else showed Barnabas, I will show Clement.

1Clem 42:3
Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured
through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in
the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went
forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come.

Notice they went forth teaching the Kingdom SHOULD COME not has come.

Now onto Dave L

you quote many verses but you are so lost when it comes to their understanding. The kingdom is come because once you have accepted the truth you are Guaranteed to be a sheep not a goat. YOUR REWARD FOLLOWS YOU. Jesus tells Peter why do you worry about those who will kill you this life means nothing they can not take your reward because it follows you.

[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!"

Or this for example.

[27] Then Peter said in reply, "Lo, we have left everything and followed you. What then shall we have?"[28] Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Your deeds follow you and when Jesus returns you INHERIT the Kingdom

Jesus tells in very plain language when the kingdom comes and when we enter it.

[31] "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. [34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

You are mistaking Scripture saying that you shall have the Kingdom or you have entered it with when you actually get it. Do what is right love your neighbor do good to others and be assured you have entered the Kingdom because your reward follows you and you shall INHERIT the kingdom at Jesus' return.

That is talking about inheriting the kingdom of God bodily on the new earth. Paul wrote about us inheriting the kingdom of God with immortal bodies (1 Cor 15:50-54). But, we are spiritually in Christ's kingdom right now, as Paul taught:

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The bible interprets its own symbols, But amillennialists have taken to interpret the 1000 years as a symbol on their own, without any scriptural basis for doing so.

Give me a break. No scriptural basis? Have you forgotten all the scripture that we use to support our view? We use lots of it. You may not agree with our interpretations, but to act like we just randomly decided that the thousand years isn't literal is complete nonsense.

We base our understanding of Revelation 20 on the rest of scripture and are careful not to interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts other scripture.

We see that scripture teaches one day when all the dead will be raised (John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15), not two (or more) as premils believe.

We see that scripture teaches one judgment day (Acts 17:30-31, Matthew 13:36-43;47-50, Matthew 25:31-46, Matt 12:36, 1 John 4:17, etc.), not two (or more) as premils believe.

We see that scripture teaches that all the dead in Christ will be resurrected and all believers will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to Christ when He returns (1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Cor 15:50-54) and all unbelievers will be killed when Christ returns (1 Thess 4:14-5:6, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Matt 24:37-39, 2 Thess 1:7-10, Rev 19:11-21). This does not allow for any mortals to populate a future earthly millennial kingdom.6,

We see that scripture teaches that Christ reigns now (Matthew 28:16-18, Ephesians 1:19-22, etc.) and that we are in His kingdom now (Col 1:12-13, Rev 1:5-6, 1 Peter 2:5-9, etc.).

We see scriptures that speak of Christ's defeat of Satan and his fallen angels by way of His death and resurrection (Heb 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Col 2:15) as relating to the binding of Satan. Premils don't acknowledge that His death and resurrection had any significant effect on Satan even though scriptures like Hebrews 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8 and Colossians 2:15 clearly teaches that it did.

There's no verse saying "the 1000 years, which is even the time since the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to heaven" or anything along those lines to explain it as a symbol. You've chosen to interpret it as a symbol YOURSELF.

Yeah, so? Tell me, is the following literal or symbolic?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

According to your logic, those who overcome will be made literal pillars in the literal temple of God. Is that what you think Revelation 3:12 is saying? There's nothing there telling us that this is symbolic, so I guess it must be literal, right?

And I guess Jesus will literally be writing the name of God and the name of the city of God, the new Jerusalem, on us somewhere? I guess that must be literal, too, right, since it doesn't specifically tell us otherwise? Will He be using a ballpoint pen, a marker or something else to do that?

 

[jgr]

You're really not getting it.
Satan is in Genesis 3:15 literally because Revelation 12:9 explains that symbol.
You don't have to guess "spiritually" because the bible decodes its own symbols.

The 1000 years is from Revelation 20, and is not explained in context as a symbol, nor is it used as a symbol anywhere else in scripture.
Instead you have chosen to define it as a symbol yourself, without God telling you it's a symbol.

Suppose you showed Genesis 3:15 to someone with no spiritual awareness, and asked him/her to explain it literally.

Do you think that the word "Satan" would be part of his/her explanation?

Not a chance.

 

[Jamdoc]

Yeah, so? Tell me, is the following literal or symbolic?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

According to your logic, those who overcome will be made literal pillars in the literal temple of God. Is that what you think Revelation 3:12 is saying? There's nothing there telling us that this is symbolic, so I guess it must be literal, right?

Pillar is commonly used as an expression for someone who stands for something and supports something, IE a pillar of the community. That's not a symbol per say. That's more of a turn of phrase. It's not at all the same as claiming that a 1000 year kingdom on earth really is a symbol for a figurative length of time in heaven.

Are you going to say the 42 months/1260 days/time time and half a time is also a symbol?

You guys make Jackson Pollock blush with your abstraction of everything.

 

[Jamdoc]

Suppose you showed Genesis 3:15 to someone with no spiritual awareness, and asked him/her to explain it literally.

Do you think that the word "Satan" would be part of his/her explanation?

Not a chance.

Suppose I showed someone Genesis 3:15 and then showed them Revelation 12:9

would they still need to be wise in their own eyes and allegorize the entire bible?
or would they be able to count on God interpreting his own symbols and not lean on their own understanding to try and "crack the code"?

2 Peter 1:20. Read it and learn it well.

 

[DavidPT]

There's no 1000 years in Genesis 3:15.

And there's no Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted literally.

But there certainly is Satan in Genesis 3:15 when Genesis 3:15 is interpreted spiritually.

Which requires spiritual discernment.

Which is a rarity in the futurist camp.

Your post makes a good point except it would have been better had you not posted this part---"Which is a rarity in the futurist camp"---since it implies things that are not necessarily true. It implies that the biggest majority of futurists lack spiritual discernment altogether, therefore they are unable to spiritually discern the simplest of things, such as satan is in Genesis 3:15.

 

[DavidPT]

Suppose I showed someone Genesis 3:15 and then showed them Revelation 12:9

would they still need to be wise in their own eyes and allegorize the entire bible?
or would they be able to count on God interpreting his own symbols and not lean on their own understanding to try and "crack the code"?

2 Peter 1:20. Read it and learn it well.

There are likely unbelieving Jews, for example, that also lack spiritual discernment. What if the person was an unbelieving Jew lacking spiritual discernment, how would showing him or her Revelation 12:9 be helpful?

 

[sovereigngrace]

If Amil is the correct position what would be the point of doing that all the way up to His 2nd coming when the doors to salvation would be closed once the thousand years end? No one that did not already have part in the first resurrection could possibly have part in it during satan's little season since one obviously can't reign with Christ a thousand years during satan's little season if that thousand years is then in the past. Which brings up something else. What about those in heaven allegedly reigning with Christ a thousand years? How can they still be doing that once the thousand years expire back on earth?

Amils believe there will be a suppression of the Gospel in the last of the last days. This will result in deep persecution. But the darkest days in history have always been the brightest days in history.

 

[jgr]

Suppose I showed someone Genesis 3:15 and then showed them Revelation 12:9

would they still need to be wise in their own eyes and allegorize the entire bible?
or would they be able to count on God interpreting his own symbols and not lean on their own understanding to try and "crack the code"?

2 Peter 1:20. Read it and learn it well.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What would you show someone to prove that the same literal serpent literally named Satan whom God literally addressed in Genesis 3:15 (thou) would literally reappear after thousands of literal years to literally bruise the literal heel of the literal seed of the literal woman?

Try to literally avoid literalized futurized fallacies and fantasies.

 

[Jamdoc]

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What would you show someone to prove that the same literal serpent literally named Satan whom God literally addressed in Genesis 3:15 (thou) would literally reappear after thousands of literal years to literally bruise the literal heel of the literal seed of the literal woman?

Try to literally avoid literalized futurized fallacies and fantasies.

God explained his symbol
you don't have to be wise in your own eyes and privately interpret it yourself if God does it for you.

meanwhile no such scripture explaining the thousand years as a symbol exists.
so you are doing a leap of logic to come up with the idea that it is a symbol and not literal.
we're done here unless you can show me scripture that defines the thousand year period as a symbol, and explains what that symbol represents.

anything else, is applying private interpretation to prophecy.