US churches do not have to report child rapes.

[Larniavc]

Seems fine to me. The Lord Jesus said to first go to the brother who sinned against you personally, then with others, then the Church, and finally if they be incorrigible then to treat them as a heathen and tax collector (although even love is owed to these). The Lord did not say "first bring it to the government." This also for groups such as the Catholic Church would be relevant to the Seal of Confession which can not be broken.

This simply leads to the historical and contemporary abuse of minors by members of the clergy.

I think it would be better to minimise that abuse if at all possible.

Maybe and age restriction to going into a place of worship?

 

[Abaxvahl]

So give them another chance to do it again? I think it’s more important to protect the innocent children rather than the guilty adult.

I think it is most important to follow God's procedure with these things for it leads to the best and most just outcome invariably, contrary to the world's procedures. If you want to protect the innocent then the Lord's way is the best way for that, for He is their protector and has made His Laws with them accounted for.

 

[partinobodycular]

Religious freedoms do not include rape or indecency with a child.

Tragically, this isn't true for all religions.

 

[Larniavc]

It would seem that they do, at least as far as reporting such things to civil authorities is concerned.

Which is diabolical.

 

[partinobodycular]

I think it is most important to follow God's procedure with these things for it leads to the best and most just outcome invariably, contrary to the world's procedures.

Sorry, but history would seem to suggest otherwise.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Maybe and age restriction to going into a place of worship?

No. "Jesus said to them: Allow the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such."

 

[Abaxvahl]

Sorry, but history would seem to suggest otherwise.

And I say the same to you.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I think it is most important to follow God's procedure with these things for it leads to the best and most just outcome invariably, contrary to the world's procedures. If you want to protect the innocent then the Lord's way is the best way for that, for He is their protector and has made His Laws with them accounted for.

Yeah, no. Clearly the church is incapable of doing the right thing. IF they ever start following what was preached, THEN we will see if it works.

As for the confessional "working" to prevent these occurrences, it clearly doesn't work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It would seem that they do, at least as far as reporting such things to civil authorities is concerned.

No since these actions are condemned by God they cannot be considered religious freedoms.

 

[Abaxvahl]

As for the confessional "working" to prevent these occurrences, it clearly doesn't work.

The Confessional works to forgive sins and give grace to divinize people. It clearly does work according to my eyes just as much as it clearly does not work according to yours.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think it is most important to follow God's procedure with these things for it leads to the best and most just outcome invariably, contrary to the world's procedures. If you want to protect the innocent then the Lord's way is the best way for that, for He is their protector and has made His Laws with them accounted for.

Well He simply said if a brother sins. He didn’t say if a brother hurts a child. The idea here is that the person is sinning but this doesn’t necessarily pertain to a sin that causes harm to another. He also said this…

“Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:1-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“The exercise of justice is joy for the righteous, But is terror to the workers of iniquity.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭21:15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[partinobodycular]

And I say the same to you.

Then I would suggest that you're deceiving yourself, because the abuse of minors is well documented within the Catholic church. But you're probably right, in the eyes of the abuser, the rules as they stand probably seem quite equitable.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Confessional works to forgive sins and give grace to divinize people. It clearly does work according to my eyes just as much as it clearly does not work according to yours.

So then a person can repeatedly rape a child 70x7 times before it’s reposted to the authorities?

 

[Abaxvahl]

Well He simply said if a brother sins. He didn’t say if a brother hurts a child. The idea here is that the person is sinning but this doesn’t necessarily pertain to a sin that causes harm to another.‬‬

Interesting Greek variant, for many other major translations (ESV, RSV, KJV, LEB, YLT, DRA) say "against you," and I know that the NASB like those tends on the word-for-word side of translation, so I assume it is a variant. Very cool to know.

Romans 13 does not justify every law or command obedience to every law, indeed to me it would be a sin against God for the Seal of Confession to be broken. As for justice, it is God's Law.

 

[Abaxvahl]

So then a person can repeatedly rape a child 70x7 times before it’s reposted to the authorities?

People can do many things, the Seal of Confession will not (or rather: should not, because it has been but it was horrifically wrong for it to have been according to God) be broken. I go in and Confess then I sin again and I Confess again, such is life. So will others.

70x7 indicates unlimited forgiveness (in a sense), not that after 490 times the Seal gets broken.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Confessional works to forgive sins and give grace to divinize people. It clearly does work according to my eyes just as much as it clearly does not work according to yours.

Confession only works on those who are repentant. It does not work on unrepentant false professors.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Confession only works on those who are repentant. It does not work on unrepentant false professors.

Amen. If a person has no Contrition in them and fully intends to do the sin again after Confessing then it does not work, they are not forgiven. God is not mocked.

Although I do note: knowing that it is likely you will sin again does not mean you intend to sin again, a person can reasonably think "considering my life and what has happened before, I will likely do this again" while also fully intending to not do it again. Those are forgiven.

 

[partinobodycular]

indeed to me it would be a sin against God for the Seal of Confession to be broken. As for justice, it is God's Law.

Yes but...the Catholic church seems reticent to report instances of abuse even when the knowledge of such abuse didn't come by way of the confessional.

 

[BNR32FAN]

People can do many things, the Seal of Confession will not (or rather: should not, because it has been but it was horrifically wrong for it to have been according to God) be broken. I go in and Confess then I sin again and I Confess again, such is life. So will others.

70x7 indicates unlimited forgiveness (in a sense), not that after 490 times the Seal gets broken.

The problem here is that it appears that ALL the compassion is going towards the offender and none to the offended. That is not God’s teaching. Sure we should have compassion for the guilty but it is more important to protect the innocent. People aren’t put to death for rape, they are imprisoned. I’d much rather put a guilty person in prison than allow him to continue hurting others, especially committing sexual immorality with children. Your compassion seems misplaced my friend.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Amen. If a person has no Contrition in them and fully intends to do the sin again after Confessing then it does not work, they are not forgiven. God is not mocked.

Although I do note: knowing that it is likely you will sin again does not mean you intend to sin again, a person can reasonably think "considering my life and what has happened before, I will likely do this again" while also fully intending to not do it again. Those are forgiven.

Yes and the church is wasting its time protecting this person while putting innocent children in danger. Sometimes for the greater good we must allow our brothers to pay the consequences of their actions if it means protecting others from being harmed by him. He can still repent and worship in jail.