Good deeds vs Sinning

[Root of Jesse]

I don't think we yo-yo in and out of salvation... that doesn't sound like a very comforting doctrine. Either we are a child of God or we are not.

I think we are always sinners, from the day of our ability to reason. At the same time, we work out our salvation. The winner of the race is not determined until the finish line. It's the same with salvation.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Then we are all doomed because we sin all the time. Jesus drew the line at the mind. Do you really believe you can remember and confess every sin, every time you have an imperfect thought?
How often do we even have perfect thoughts for one hour?
Unless you are saying we are somehow saved and unsaved at the same time, I can not make sense of what you said.
What if you can't make it to the priest and you die? What if you forget a sin or just don't realize it is one?
To hell you go.
That's not salvation at all.

If we are truly sorry for the sins we commit, there's no light switch. Every time we go to Mass, we start by confessing our sins "I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have greatly sinned in my thoughts, in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grevious fault." This pretty much covers those venial sins that we commit every minute of the day. For the more serious ones, there's confession, and we should go often for those, too. And no, you don't have to remember every one, but can tell the priest, I committed X sin a lot, but don't remember how often. The point is to remember your sins and not commit them in the future.
Also, we are always working out our salvation. An evangelist, Matthew Kelly, has this concept of being the best version of yourself. Also, the point is to persevere. Mother Theresa told us God doesn't expect us to perfect, but he does want us to persevere. So keep trying to be better.

 

[zoidar]

I think we are always sinners, from the day of our ability to reason. At the same time, we work out our salvation. The winner of the race is not determined until the finish line. It's the same with salvation.

I don't think we move in and out of salvation anyhow. If I'm saved every other week, lost the other, how can I know Jesus comes back when I'm in the "saved state"? Maybe you meant something else?

 

[renniks]

Also, we are always working out our salvation. An evangelist, Matthew Kelly, has this concept of being the best version of yourself.

This is good in theory. But everyone has times when they aren't. Which is why it's a good thing as Brennan said "God loves us as we are and not as we should be because we are never going to be what we should be. "

 

[renniks]

I don't think we move in and out of salvation anyhow. If I'm saved every other week, lost the other, how can I know Jesus comes back when I'm in the "saved state"? Maybe you meant something else?

If we can not know until the finish line we can not have any confidence in our salvation.
But that's not what scripture says.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

 

[Root of Jesse]

I don't think we move in and out of salvation anyhow. If I'm saved every other week, lost the other, how can I know Jesus comes back when I'm in the "saved state"? Maybe you meant something else?

What is your definition of sin?

 

[zoidar]

What is your definition of sin?

Breaking Jesus commands.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If we can not know until the finish line we can not have any confidence in our salvation.
But that's not what scripture says.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

What is your definition of sin? Is it just the act of wrong-doing? Or is it something that affects our relationship with God in a bad way?

Breaking Jesus commands.

What are the effects of sin?

 

[zoidar]

What are the effects of sin?

It effects our heart which in the long run can lead to loss of faith and a broken relationship with Christ.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It effects our heart which in the long run can lead to loss of faith and a broken relationship with Christ.

I don't know that it affects our heart. Some commit adultery, no problem. Some can kill with a word at the blink of an eye and think nothing of it. No, it breaks our relationship with Christ (which you said), and God. A broken relationship with God, without some reparative action, means we're not saved. When we confess our sins and do what we can to repair them, we restore our relationship with God, and are, for a time, saved. It's an iterative process, though. You can't get dunked and shout "I'm saved!" and be done with it.

 

[zoidar]

I don't know that it affects our heart. Some commit adultery, no problem. Some can kill with a word at the blink of an eye and think nothing of it. No, it breaks our relationship with Christ (which you said), and God. A broken relationship with God, without some reparative action, means we're not saved. When we confess our sins and do what we can to repair them, we restore our relationship with God, and are, for a time, saved. It's an iterative process, though. You can't get dunked and shout "I'm saved!" and be done with it.

If we are saved we are children of God. So do you mean when we sin we are no longer children of God until we confess? Or do you mean God can eternally condemn a child of His?

 

[Root of Jesse]

If we are saved we are children of God. So do you mean when we sin we are no longer children of God until we confess? Or do you mean God can eternally condemn a child of His?

No, the child of His condemns himself. God gives us free will to love whatever we want, even if it's not Him.

 

[zoidar]

No, the child of His condemns himself. God gives us free will to love whatever we want, even if it's not Him.

There are basically two questions:

Is a child of God still a child of God after sinning, before confessing?

If yes, then will a child of God that hasn't confessed standing at judgement be saved or lost?

Edited

 

[renniks]

What is your definition of sin? Is it just the act of wrong-doing? Or is it something that affects our relationship with God in a bad way?

Sin is literally missing the mark, as in missing perfection.

 

[prophecy_uk]

RootJesse: "No, the child of His condemns himself. God gives us free will to love whatever we want, even if it's not Him."

Zoildar "Is a child of God still a child of God after sinning, before confessing?"

Renniks "Sin is literally missing the mark, as in missing perfection."


Seeing the three of you are relying on your own words, not Gods word, then all three are speaking the wrong thing, against scripture.


Freewill is given to man in the first covenant, and man had no faith, no fear of God, and loves himself, that is all man wants to love, all died and all die in Adam.

In the first covenant, they sinned and confessed, but what they did not do was cease from sin, to confess the sins and forsake them.

This is why, a new covenant, is not free will, it is Gods writing in man, what was not written before, of faith, of fear, of love for your neighbour, instead of yourself, what else do you think are Gods commandments written in us/ new covenant ?

Do you not see your thoughts are without sense ? If not I am more than capable of showing you in everything you can speak ( by Gods word).

Now, if sin is missing the mark, it is hitting what you should not hit, it is missing the mark of Gods Holiness, and is hitting God, when you say you are a believe in Him, yet you hit at God, and hit at man made in His mage and not only work unholiness on them, but also blaspheme God by saying this is the way God made it, free and not held away from it by Gods new covenant, THAT BROUGHT NO WAY NEW?

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There are basically two questions:

Is a child of God still a child of God after sinning, before confessing?

If yes, then will a child of God that hasn't confessed standing at judgement be saved or lost?

Edited

That's for God to decide, isn't it? We believe you can repent at your last dying breath and be saved. But if you're not repentent of your sin, may God have mercy on your soul. But A child of God is a child of God, and technically, every human is a child of God, because without God, no human could be conceived or live.

 

[prophecy_uk]

"That's for God to decide, isn't it? We believe you can repent at your last dying breath and be saved. But if you're not repentent of your sin, may God have mercy on your soul. "


Here is Gods exampled decisions then.

Repenting, can you repent at any time, including last breath ?

No, because the testimony is, peace and holiness with all men, or you never will see the Lord, as this is seeing the Lord ( while in earth) when we love sincerely and unfeigned.

Looking diligently then, to not fail of the grace of God.

The failure are, the fornicator and profane, as Esau's example, who was rejected from repentance, though he sought it carefully even with tears..

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[zoidar]

That's for God to decide, isn't it? We believe you can repent at your last dying breath and be saved. But if you're not repentent of your sin, may God have mercy on your soul. But A child of God is a child of God, and technically, every human is a child of God, because without God, no human could be conceived or live.

I don't think what you say is that wrong, I just see a problem with the idea we lose salvation sinning once. It all becomes mechanic, we sin/we confess, we are lost/we are saved. I don't like that idea, I don't even think it's Biblical. We confess our sin every day in church, in a mechanic way. I don't think God wants that. God wants genuine repentance, not a few words spoken at Mass or in the confession stand. God sees the heart of the believer, our intention and decisions.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

...Which option applies to my situation:...

I don't know...My first assumption is neither.

Somewhere I'm sure it says "Love covers a multitude of sins" - but in the context that you are thinking about good and bad, with your framing - I don't know.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

But didn't Jesus tell them they should do good deeds?

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Interesting here that giving a tenth of things is quantitative.

The more important bits where justice, mercy and faithfulness - which seems hard to put a number to. They were according to Jesus, more important, and neglected.