Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Confused-by-christianity]

What did you understand as the alternative for heaven then? If you "missed out" on heaven, what would you have expected in the afterlife?

Do you think that as you are now you would enjoy heaven? Would you even appreciate it?
Surely you would need ............ upgrades??? Body mind and soul??

 

[Saint Steven]

The thing that surprises me the most is how sure people are that their beliefs are true.

Don't mistake taking a position as being 100 percent sure.

Perhaps if you begin to take a position on all these things, you would begin to feel more confident in them.

And you are allowed to change your position if at some point another position makes more sense to you.

 

[zoidar]

The thing that surprises me the most is how sure people are that their beliefs are true.

I do not have this certainty.
In fact the opposite, I assume my beliefs about reality are incorrect.

Perhaps I'll die, be given a super intelligent brain, super perception and super attitude and be shown a lot and taught super philosophy by either Jesus or another representative of God? Maybe I will see clearer then, but for now - I'm not sure its possible. That being said, would I want to be "given" this, or would I want to grow into it?

I wonder if the point of faith is this...
If you saw God (and you do in part), you wouldn't understand what you saw.
Maybe all this life, religion and experience is about growing.
Evolving from a being that cannot comprehend God into a being that can?

I don't know

Jesus was resurrected with a glorified yet physical body. That's how I understand our being in heaven will be.

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you think that as you are now you would enjoy heaven? Would you even appreciate it?
Surely you would need ............ upgrades??? Body mind and soul??

I think would enjoy and appreciate heaven as I am. What's not to like?
I don't expect that I will be as I am now. I'll be in a heavenly body and mind. But I will still be me. You should be able to recognize me. Be sure to say hello and remind me of your username. Thanks. - lol

 

[zoidar]

What did you understand as the alternative for heaven then? If you "missed out" on heaven, what would you have expected in the afterlife?

I believed in outer darkness, a place of separation from God, but it was the sorrow of missing out on the good things God has promised for us, that really was the strongest factor of my conversion.

 

[Saint Steven]

I believed in outer darkness, a place of separation from God, but it was the sorrow of missing out on the good things God has promised for us, that really was the strongest factor of my conversion.

If there was no afterlife, would you have become a Christian? (previous topic question) Most respondents to the topic said they would not have become a Christian if there was no afterlife. I found this quite shocking. As if the Christian life and a relationship with God in the here and now was of no value to them.

Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

 

[zoidar]

If there was no afterlife, would you have become a Christian? (previous topic question) Most respondents to the topic said they would not have become a Christian if there was no afterlife. I found this quite shocking. As if the Christian life and a relationship with God in the here and now was of no value to them.

Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

If everything would end in cold death, there is really no meaning to life. I can't separate the purpose I have in this life with the promise of a new Earth. So being a Christian wouldn't give me much joy or hope if all lead to death. I agree with you that Christianity is not only about the afterlife, but also giving us something here right now, that only Christ can give. But that joy is caused by Christ's victory over death. There wouldn't be a victory unless there is an eternal life to be won for us.

I found my reply in the thread:

It's an impossible question, because without the resurrection there is no Christianity. So it's like saying if Christianity is untrue, would you still be a Christian?

I can say this much, even if all would be saved, believers and unbelievers, no matter religion, I would still be a Christian. It's not primarily my personal salvation that wants me to stay Christian, but the fact that Jesus has died for us, conquered death and was resurrected for our salvation. I can see no greater love, and no greater purpose for my life.

 

[ozso]

If there was no afterlife, would you have become a Christian? (previous topic question) Most respondents to the topic said they would not have become a Christian if there was no afterlife. I found this quite shocking. As if the Christian life and a relationship with God in the here and now was of no value to them.

Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

In all fairness I came to realize that question is a no brainier for me, because I've loved Jesus for as long as I can remember. I have a picture of Jesus on a shelf above my monitor, I've had since I was 6 years old.

Does that make it an antique?

 

[Saint Steven]

If everything would end in cold death, there is really no meaning to life. I can't separate the purpose I have in this life with the promise of a new Earth. So being a Christian wouldn't give me much joy or hope if all lead to death. I agree with you that Christianity is not only about the afterlife, but also giving us something here right now, that only Christ can give. But that joy is caused by Christ's victory over death. There wouldn't be a victory unless there is an eternal life to be won for us.

I think most posters couldn't understand the question. But it showed how most people viewed their Christian life. Jesus came to give us abundant life. They could hardly wait to get to heaven so they could begin enjoying it.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have a picture of Jesus on a shelf above my monitor, I've had since I was 6 years old.

Wow. You had a computer monitor when you were six years old?
You must be younger than I thought you were. - lol

 

[ozso]

Wow. You had a computer monitor when you were six years old?
You must be younger than I thought you were. - lol

No of course not. I meant Mr. Beasley.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Don't mistake taking a position as being 100 percent sure.

Yeah that's my point.

I think I ....as you say it..."take a position".
It seems to me that a lot of people, when it comes to religious matters are "100% sure" of something??

Where does their certainty come from?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Jesus was resurrected with a glorified yet physical body. That's how I understand our being in heaven will be.

What do you think glorified means?

Do you think it's made of the same stuff that you and I are made out of? Just perfect??

 

[Hmm]

The thing that surprises me the most is how sure people are that their beliefs are true.

Is it really that presumptuous to believe that the God who is perfectly reflected by Jesus wouldn't send anyone to eternal conscious torment? I'm surprised by the complete opposite thought: that anyone could believe that He would. But it's not just about ones belief anyway, it is also biblical though of course that's disputed.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I think would enjoy and appreciate heaven as I am. What's not to like?
I don't expect that I will be as I am now. I'll be in a heavenly body and mind. But I will still be me. You should be able to recognize me. Be sure to say hello and remind me of your username. Thanks. - lol

haha will do.
What do you think heaven will be like?
What do you think you'll do in heaven?
Will there be a purpose of this life? Will you just get given all the answers and be 100% whole - so no more growing to do, or will you still need to grow?
Do you just think there's no way to know so might as well skip those questions?

 

[zoidar]

What do you think glorified means?

Do you think it's made of the same stuff that you and I are made out of? Just perfect??

Basically, yes!

Glorified, our bodies and souls are being rid of sin.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Is it really that presumptuous to believe that the God who is perfectly reflected by Jesus wouldn't send anyone to eternal conscious torment?

No I'm more wondering...
How certain are people that their beliefs are true?

When I read the Bible, I naturally seem to have an idea that I could be wrong.
The Bible seems unclear to me.

Others seem to read the bible and come away certain they have understood it correctly, they haven't made an error. How are they certain? How have they tested their knowledge?

Admittedly I might be going a little off-piste from the thread original topic.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Basically, yes!

Glorified, our bodies and souls are being rid of sin.

You think maybe - as though - energy is hindered in some way. Held back from it's full potential in some way and glorified means it's full potential realised?

 

[ozso]

Yeah that's my point.

I think I ....as you say it..."take a position".
It seems to me that a lot of people, when it comes to religious matters are "100% sure" of something??

Where does their certainty come from?

I'd say one can have certainty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Also there's a the process of elimination, where what seems to be the most reasonable or most likely result, scenario, or whatever is what one goes with.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I'd say one can have certainty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yeah - testing your conclusions is a good thing I'd say.

1. Figure out what "reasonable" means and then see if what you think is: "beyond reasonable doubt".

If you turn out to be wrong - you can at least say you're "blameless" and blame the standard haha
You did your best with the intellectual resources available to you.

Ought we conclude that we are certain though? When concluding what the bible means?
Perhaps say we have a ...
Position that we consider reasonable.
We have judged other ideas as less reasonable and so eliminated them - but remain aware that we are not perfect judges and so could be wrong.
It's seems a little far for me to use the word certain when speaking of the bible.
Probably there are some bits in the bible where I would say "I am certain, it means x and not anything else other than x"???