THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY!

[1an]

New does not delete previous commandments. Jesus never came to destroy God’s laws but came to magnify,. Isaiah 42:21. Matthew 5:17-20.

Jesus tells us we should not break the least of these commandments.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

God’s laws was not at odds with Jesus. Jesus came to do the will of His Father. John 6:38

Notice the omission? There is nothing about Saturday.
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[LoveGodsWord]

James 2:10 To break one part of the law is to be guilty of all. The law is like a chain of ten links. Break one link and the chain is broken. God does not allow us to keep the laws we like, and break others.

We are all guilty under the law. This is why we have a new High Priest who gave us a new law.

Please, forget all about Jewish law that binds in chains.

Exactly James is quoting the 10 commandments. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. *James 2:10-11

 

[1an]

New does not delete previous commandments. Jesus never came to destroy God’s laws but came to magnify,. Isaiah 42:21. Matthew 5:17-20.

Jesus tells us we should not break the least of these commandments.19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

God’s laws was not at odds with Jesus. Jesus came to do the will of His Father. John 6:38

The person who trusts in Jesus is no longer under the law; he is under grace (Rom_6:14). He is dead to the law through the work of Christ. The penalty of the law must be paid only once; since Christ paid the penalty, the believer does not have to. It is in this sense that the law has faded away for the Christian (2Co_3:7-11). The law was a tutor until Christ came, but after salvation, this tutor is no longer needed (Gal_3:24-25).
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[Sunshinee777]

Since the Jewish religious calendarcounts days from sunset to sunset, Shabbat begins in the evening of what on the civil calendar is Friday.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Notice the omission? There is nothing about Saturday.
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The seventh day Sabbath was established from the beginning as the holy day of the Lord. Genesis 2:1-3 and is a commandment of God. Exodus 20:8-11. Does it need to be repeated every time for you to obey? The Sabbath is mentioned 60 times alone in the New Testament and is referred to as being part of the law. Which law? The 4th commandment. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here to be honest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since the Jewish religious calendarcounts days from sunset to sunset, Shabbat begins in the evening of what on the civil calendar is Friday.

Yes, the Sabbath is from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The person who trusts in Jesus is no longer under the law; he is under grace (Rom_6:14). He is dead to the law through the work of Christ. The penalty of the law must be paid only once; since Christ paid the penalty, the believer does not have to. It is in this sense that the law has faded away for the Christian (2Co_3:7-11). The law was a tutor until Christ came, but after salvation, this tutor is no longer needed (Gal_3:24-25).
.

According to the scriptures in Romans 3:19-20 we are only "under the law" if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law. 2 Corinthians 3 is about the covenants the written law of sin and death written on stone and the Spirit of the law written on the heart through faith. Faith does not abolished the law according to the scriptures it establishes the law in those who believe and follow God's Word according to Paul in Romans 3:31

 

[1an]

Hi Ian what should make us sad is all those who will be lost because they knowingly choose to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God over the very Word of God himself (Matthew 15:3-9). According to the scriptures God's people are in every Church *John 10:16 living up to all the light that God has revealed to them through his Word (James 4:17). The hour is coming and now is according to Jesus that the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. According to the scriptures BABYLON has fallen away from Gods Word *Revelation 14:8; Revelation 18:1-5. In times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at and does not hold us accountable for sin *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says. According to the scriptures at this point if we choose to reject Gods' Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *Hebrews 10:26-31. According to the scriptures under the new covenant, God's 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *see Romans 3:4; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. This of course includes Gods 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) which is also one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. There is not one scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest just the same as there is not a single scripture that says "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week. These are both man-made teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break God's 4th commandment and led many away from God and His Word. God is calling us all where ever we might be back to His Word. Sadly many will be called according to the scriptures but only the few will be the chosen *Matthew 22:14. This is what we should all be really sad about. Who should we believe and follow God or man. This is the test and the question that is coming to all of us. Gods' sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow Him according to the scriptures those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

God bless.

Jewish law is the law of men. The Scribes and Pharisees.
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[LoveGodsWord]

Jewish law is the law of men. The Scribes and Pharisees.
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God's law (10 commandments) is the law of God and the work of God alone written on tables of stone with the finger of God *Exodus 32:16-18 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. In the new covenant it is written he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:28-29. Do you know what this means (see Hebrews 8:10-12)?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The person who trusts in Jesus is no longer under the law; he is under grace (Rom_6:14). He is dead to the law through the work of Christ. The penalty of the law must be paid only once; since Christ paid the penalty, the believer does not have to. It is in this sense that the law has faded away for the Christian (2Co_3:7-11). The law was a tutor until Christ came, but after salvation, this tutor is no longer needed (Gal_3:24-25).
.

So are you saying you were free to sin? I would not advice that because we are told once we learn the truth and continue in sin, there remains no more sacrifice, Hebrews 10:26.

We are saved by grace through our faith as salvation is a free gift from God (to give or not) based on His righteous judgement. Everyone will have to stand in front of Jesus at judgement day.

2 Cor 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Paul the author of the quotes you present also said this:

1 Cor 7:19 but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Which includes God’s 4th commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Irrelevant. If you're not keeping the whole Law, you're guilty of braking all of it. James 2:10

As I recall you said there's laws you don't have to keep.

James 2 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Do you slaughter animals for blood sacrifice? If not, why?

 

[Servus]

Exactly James is quoting the 10 commandments. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. *James 2:10-11

No, James said the Whole Law. Your interpretation sounds man-made.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@ all time for me to go as it is late my time. Thanks for the discussion will catch up more latter

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, James said the Whole Law. Your interpretation sounds man-made.

The whole law is in context to the 10 commandments that James was discussing in James 2:10-11. This of course includes Gods 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments.

Good night Brian

 

[1an]

The Resurrection taking place on Sunday doesn't seem to be of much interest. I've brought it up several times and it's gone ignored. There's just this fixation with Rev 1:10.

I worry about those who have little regard for the conquering of sin and death by Jesus Christ. It is certainly worthy of remembering and celebration.

But back to Revelation 1:10, It was on the Lord's Day, that is, the first day of the week, the day of Christ's resurrection, when Christ appeared to His disciples and the Spirit descended at Pentecost. The disciples gathered to break bread on the Lord's Day, and Paul instructed the Corinthians to take a collection on the first day when they were all gathered together.
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[swordsman1]

Your referencing modern Greek meanings not Koine Greek meanings of κυριακή ημέρα (the Lord's day).

No I'm not. I have only referenced the original koine Greek.

If you believe that the Koine Greek of κυριακή ημέρα means Sunday you should be able to provide a single biblical Koine Greek dictionary that says κυριακή ημέρα means Sunday. Where is it? You have none do you.

No problem. Here you go....

BDAG Lexicon (the most respected of Greek lexicons)

κυριακός , ή , όν ( s . κύριος ) pert . to belonging to the Lord , the Lord ' s ( oft . in ins [ since 68 A . D . : OGI 669 , 13 , 18 ] and pap =.' imperial ' in certain exprs . : imperial treasury, Service, , etc . See Dssm ., NB 44ff [ BS 217ff ], LO 304ff [ LAE 2 362ff ]; Hatch 138f ; and πρῶτος 1aα end ; Iren . 1 , 8 , 1 [ Harv . I 67 , 1 ; 6f ]) κ . δεῖπνον the Lord ' s Supper 1 Cor 11:20 . κ . ἡμέρα the Lord ' s day ( Kephal . I 192 , 1 ; 193 , 31 ; ὁ μὲν τέλειος ... ἀεὶ ἄγει κ . ἡμέρας Orig , C . Cels . 8 , 22 , 6 ) i.e. certainly Sunday ( so in Mod... Gk ., And cp . POxy 3407 [ IV A . D ]). Rv 1:10 ( WStott , NTS 12 , ' 65 , 70 - 75 ). For this κυριακὴ κυρίου D 14: 1 . Without κυρίου ( Kephal . I 194 , 9 ; 195 , 6 ; Did ,. Gen . 190, 2 ) GPt 9:35 ; 12:50 . τῷ σαββάτῳ ἐπερχομένης τῆς κ . AcPl Ha 3 , 9 . κατὰ κυριακὴν ζῆν observe the Lord ' s day ( opp . σαββατίζειν ) IMg 9: 1 ( on the omission of ἡμέρα cp . Jer 52:12 δεκάτῃ τοῦ μηνός and s .ἀγοραῖος 2 ). σύνταξιν τῶν κυριακῶν ποιούμενος λογίων making an orderly presentation of the dominical words Papias ( 2:15 ) ( s . also ἐξήγησις end ); κ . λογίων ( 11: 1 ; 12: 2 ); κ . λόγων ( 3: 1 ); κ . ἐξηγήσεων ( 8: 9 ). - SMcCasland , The Origin of the Lord ' s Day: JBL 49 , 1930 , 65 - 82 ; JBoehmer , D . christl . Sonntag nach Urspr . u . Gesch . ' 31 ; PCotton , the From Sabbath's to the Sunday ' 33 ; WRordorf , Der Sonntag ... im ältesten Christentum ' 62 ( Eng... tr . AGraham ' 68 ); HRiesenfeld , Sabbat et Jour du Seigneur: TWManson memorial vol . ' 59 , 210 - 17 .- Bed and . 1008 . DELG s . v . κύριος . M - M . TW . Spicq . Sv .​

 

[Servus]

James quotes directly from the Ten. Brian I think you like to argue to argue so I am going to leave you to do that.

God bless

By that reasoning James only meant the two Laws he quoted. It doesn't wash. The Whole Law must mean the Whole Law.

 

[Servus]

I worry about those who have little regard for the conquering of sin and death by Jesus Christ. It is certainly worthy of remembering and celebration.

But back to Revelation 1:10, It was on the Lord's Day, that is, the first day of the week, the day of Christ's resurrection, when Christ appeared to His disciples and the Spirit descended at Pentecost. The disciples gathered to break bread on the Lord's Day, and Paul instructed the Corinthians to take a collection on the first day when they were all gathered together.
.

Yep. John 20:1 confirms that.

Also I think it's noteworthy that both John 20:1 and Revelation 1:10 were both written by John.

 

[1an]

No, do you know what the new covenant is *Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 repeated in Hebrews 8:10-12? As posted earlier according to Jesus, Paul, James and John, love is not separate from Gods' 10 commandments it is expressed in obedience to obeying God's commandments as shown in Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-12; James 2:8-12 and John 5:2-3 and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. In the new covenant
he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *Romans 2:28-29. Do you know what this means?

The New Covenant breaks with the Old Covenant that was given to the Jews and which everyone breaks big time. So as nobody can keep it in its entirety, those who are bound by it are eternally lost.
.

 

[1an]

The whole law is in context to the 10 commandments that James was discussing in James 2:10-11. This of course includes Gods 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments.

Good night Brian

I feel like saying goodnight LGW, but no doubt I shall need to engage with you quite a lot more.
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[Servus]

So are you saying you were free to sin? I would not advice that because we are told once we learn the truth and continue in sin, there remains no more sacrifice, Hebrews 10:26.

Strawman aleart.

We are saved by grace through our faith as salvation is a free gift from God (to give or not) based on His righteous judgement. Everyone will have to stand in front of Jesus at judgement day.

2 Cor 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Paul the author of the quotes you present also said this:

1 Cor 7:19 but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Which includes God’s 4th commandment.

 

[1an]

Exactly James is quoting the 10 commandments. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. *James 2:10-11

The Christian is not under law, but under grace.
.

 

[Servus]

The whole law is in context to the 10 commandments that James was discussing in James 2:10-11. This of course includes Gods 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments.

Good night Brian

Non sequitur. The 10 commandments are not the Whole Law.

 

[Chesterton]

In the days of Jesus, Paul and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures and it was these scriptures that foretold of the coming Messiah in Jesus. The new testament scriptures came from the old testament scriptures and together they make up Gods' Word, pointing to Jesus as the living Word of God and the creator of heaven and earth.

That's not an answer to the question.

 

[Jipsah]

Telling you good luck in proving Paul meant the Sabbath was disrespectful?

Actually not much luck is required. I think this makes a pretty good prima facie case:

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I'm sure you disagree, but that's OK.

 

[Jipsah]

You said that you do not find SDA material to be credible

To deny that SDA sources have a doctrinal ax to grind is to ignore reality. They cannot be considered disinterested or impartial sources, the group they represent bases their very existence on that one doctrinal position.

What you have posted here has nothing to do with what we were just discussing but once again where is the scripture that that says "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week?

In the same place that the Scripture that says the Sabbath is "the Lord's Day" is stored, apparently. The Church, however, has traditionally considered the day our Lord rose from the dead as the Lord's Day, and has worshipped on that day. That much is indisputable fact.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath day

And everything else. So say we all.

 

[Jipsah]

The Lords day is a sunday.

I believe in Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition.

Jesus brought with Him a new covenant.

God bless everyone.

Since the Bible is a matter of Sacred Tradition, yeah.

 

[Jipsah]

Then it should be easy enough to find in scriptures, yet no one has been able to produce where scriptures spell out clearly the Lords day is the first day or a new holy day the way God spelled out that the seventh day is the holy day of the Lord thy God i.e. Lords day Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13. All examples have been outside of the Bible. The only trusted scripture is God’s Word.

Dunno, I reckon that OUR LORD HAVING RISEN FROM THE DEAD ON A GIVEN DAY GIVES THAT DAY A SPECIAL SIGNIFICANCE!

Your mileage may vary. After all: "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

 

[Servus]

Actually not much luck is required. I think this makes a pretty good prima facie case:

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I'm sure you disagree, but that's OK.

It's covered on page 14 of the manual.

 

[Jipsah]

This is a Lords day thread Brian. Do you have any scripture that supports your view that Sunday is the Lords day?

Do you have any that it isn't?

 

[Jipsah]

. Can you show me a scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments have been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? - There is none.

Can you show me in Scripture where gentiles were ever given the Law at all?

 

[Jipsah]

James 2 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Not what he said, is it?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not what he said, is it?

Here it is for context

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

This is a direct quote from the Ten Commandments.