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timothyu

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showing Gods' people have always kept Gods' 4th commandment to this present day
Like the Jews still do and the Messianic Christians?
Besides, if it wasn't for the Saturday Sabbath there would be no need to glorify Sunday. The only reason God didn't raise Jesus sooner between sundowns Friday to Saturday is because He was off duty.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Like the Jews still do and the Messianic Christians?
Besides, if it wasn't for the Saturday Sabbath there would be no need to glorify Sunday. The only reason God didn't raise Jesus sooner between sundowns Friday to Saturday is because He was off duty.
Yes good point Tim. Although I was not even referring to the obvious in pointing to the Jews and Messianic Christians which is a great point btw. I was talking specifically about biblical historical references inside the bible and outside of the bible.

God bless.
 
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HTacianas

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There are many historical records from the days of Jesus to this very present day showing Gods' people have always kept Gods' 4th commandment to this present day unbroken since the days of Jesus and the Apostles. How far would you like to go up to?

Just take us back to the first century.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Just take us back to the first century.
No problem... I will go the extra mile. Here is the first four centuries. I can keep going to this present day if you would like. Just let me know. Then let's get back to the OP ok?

HISTORY OF THE SABBATH FROM JESUS TO AFTER THE DEATH OF JESUS (Source; Complied from various historical references by J Coltheart. The full 20 Centuries here linked)

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The First Century A.D.

INSTITUTION OF THE SABBATH
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Genesis 2:1-3 )

JESUS
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read." (Luke 4:16)

JESUS
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:16,17)

JESUS
"But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." (Matthew 24, 20).
NOTE: Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D. 40 years after the Jesus' crucfixion and we see here that Jesus fully expected His church to be observing His true seventh day Sabbath that He Himself proclaimed to be the Lord of.

JESUS' FOLLOWERS
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56.) Did these women make a mistake and keep the wrong sabbath or was it that Christ NEVER EVER hinted that there would be a change forthcoming???

PAUL
"And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) Did Christ fail to inform Paul on the road to Damascus that there's now a new sabbath? Or rather does the silence of Christ speak volumes against the papal sabbath???

PAUL AND THE GENTILES
"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God." Acts 13:42, 44.

Here we find Gentiles in a Gentile city gathering on the Sabbath. It was not a synagogue meeting in verse 44, for it says almost the whole city came together, verse 42 says they asked to hear the message the "next Sabbath."

And get this: The Bible does not say it is the "old Jewish Sabbath that was passed away," but the Spirit of God, writing the Book of Acts some 30 years after the crucifixion, calls it "the next Sabbath."

JOHN
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." Rev.1:10 (Matthew 12:6; Mark 2:28, Isa.58:13, Ex.20:10, Clearly show the Sabbath to be the Lord's day).
The term "Lord's day" in reference to sunday came later. The Biblical meaning for Lord's day is the day that God calls "My holy day" and the day that Jesus said He is Lord of.

JOSEPHUS
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

PHILO
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99

So we have incontrovertible proof that the observance of sunday was NOT practiced by the apostolic church of the first century. Although the poison of apostasy had already begun, it did not reach the ascendancy until the passage of a few more centuries.

The next installment will show the historical record of the early christians observing the true seventh day Sabbath in the second century A.D.

.........................

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Second Century A.D.


EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." "A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath," p. 77

Note: By the "Lord's day" here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath," which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. It illustrates the apostasy that Paul the Apostle foretold of when he spoke about a great "falling away" from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

.........................

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Third Century A.D.

EGYPT (OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRUS) (200-250 A.D.)
"Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath," Greek), ye shall not see the Father." "The oxyrhynchus Papyri," pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).

EARLY CHRISTIANS-C 3rd
"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

AFRICA (ALEXANDRIA) ORIGEN
"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

PALESTINE TO INDIA (CHURCH OF THE EAST)
As early as A.D. 225 there existed large bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, "Early Spread of Christianity." Vol.10, p. 460.

INDIA (BUDDHIST CONTROVERSY), 220 A.D.)
The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, "The Creed of Half Japan," p. 23.

EARLY CHRISTIANS
"The seventh-day Sabbath was...solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it." "Dissertation on the Lord's Day," pp. 33, 34

.........................

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Fourth Century A.D.

ITALY AND EAST-C 4th
"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west...For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);...it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." "History of the Sabbath" (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.

ORIENT AND MOST OF WORLD
"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

ABYSSINIA
"In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

ARABIA, PERSIA, INDIA, CHINA
"Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." "Truth Triumphanat,"p.308 (Footnote 27).

ITALY-MILAN
"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath" (1612)

SPAIN-COUNCIL ELVIRA (A.D.305)
Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

SPAIN
It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spain near the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both "Valldenses" and Sabbatati."

PERSIA-A.D. 335-375 (40 YEARS PERSECUTION UNDER SHAPUR II)
The popular complaint against the Christians-"They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it." Truth Triumphant," p.170.

PERSIA-A.D.335-375
"They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, "The Syriac Church and Fathers," pp.83, 84.

COUNCIL LAODICEA-A.D.365
"Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud." "Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day." Hefele's "Councils," Vol. 2, b. 6.

.....................

Let me know if you need more. We can keep on going to the this present day if you like.
 
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timothyu

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I believe what we gentiles have and followed was a doctrine made of man. But some out of tradition take that to be gospel truth, having made it over in their own image as mankind is prone to do when establishing itself as a false authourity.
 
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R7-12

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So explain to me where everyone went wrong.
Hi HTacianas,
What went wrong occurred a long time ago when the early church established in Rome was eventually taken over by some of the locals who were predominantly pagan sun-worshippers. They infused the teachings of the Bible with their own particular beliefs because that's what they knew and liked and were used to. By the end of the second century CE, the Passover had been replaced with Easter by the local Roman religious authorities following years of debate (check out the Quartodeciman disputes). The Sabbath would soon follow and all of the rest of God's Holy Days and appointed times.

One interesting piece of trivia, there was a period of time when those who remained faithful to the Bible and continued to observe the Sabbath, and those who fought to keep their beloved "Day of the Sun", were keeping these two different days at the same time. This is what lead to the development of the two-day weekend, which obviously is still with us. prior to this, people most people worked six days of the week, those who followed the Bible kept the Sabbath, and those who worshipped the sun kept the Day of the Sun.

By the time "Christianity", as it was being called, was legalized in around 312 CE, it had begun to be quite popular among the locals who were often intrigued by all kinds of religions and forms of mysticism. Church attendance on Sundays grew exponentially, while those who were still keeping the Sabbath withdrew themselves from all of these changes, and eventually became almost totally lost to history.

Anyway, Romanized Christianity became the most popular religion and many of the original pagan doctrines that had entered that church become syncretized with some of the original teachings by the apostles and their subsequent students, resulting in it becoming the origin of most of this world's Christian groups. It's been some 1700 years since this occurred so it has had plenty of time to grow very deep roots.

All of this history and much, much, more can be readily found in the various recorded accounts and histories still available today.

This subject actually has life-changing potential. It did for me.

May you be blessed in your studies!
 
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HTacianas

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Hi HTacianas,
What went wrong occurred a long time ago when the early church established in Rome was eventually taken over by some of the locals who were predominantly pagan sun-worshippers. They infused the teachings of the Bible with their own particular beliefs because that's what they knew and liked and were used to. By the end of the second century CE, the Passover had been replaced with Easter by the local Roman religious authorities following years of debate (check out the Quartodeciman disputes). The Sabbath would soon follow and all of the rest of God's Holy Days and appointed times.

One interesting piece of trivia, there was a period of time when those who remained faithful to the Bible and continued to observe the Sabbath, and those who fought to keep their beloved "Day of the Sun", were keeping these two different days at the same time. This is what lead to the development of the two-day weekend, which obviously is still with us. prior to this, people most people worked six days of the week, those who followed the Bible kept the Sabbath, and those who worshipped the sun kept the Day of the Sun.

By the time "Christianity", as it was being called, was legalized in around 312 CE, it had begun to be quite popular among the locals who were often intrigued by all kinds of religions and forms of mysticism. Church attendance on Sundays grew exponentially, while those who were still keeping the Sabbath withdrew themselves from all of these changes, and eventually became almost totally lost to history.

Anyway, Romanized Christianity became the most popular religion and many of the original pagan doctrines that had entered that church become syncretized with some of the original teachings by the apostles and their subsequent students, resulting in it becoming the origin of most of this world's Christian groups. It's been some 1700 years since this occurred so it has had plenty of time to grow very deep roots.

All of this history and much, much, more can be readily found in the various recorded accounts and histories still available today.

This subject actually has life-changing potential. It did for me.

May you be blessed in your studies!

I've heard this all before. For years. And it isn't true. For instance, the myth that the Roman Church made all kinds of changes based on pagan worship or whatever are simply false accusations made by anti-Catholic protestants. For example, all those things those people accuse Rome of are also found in the Eastern and Oriental Churches, and even the Saint Thomas Church of India that never had any connection to Rome.

But there are groups out there that claim to be the "secret church" that has maintained the Truth against Rome for all these centuries. Problem is, those groups only go back -at most- a few hundred years. And every one of them is at odds with the other. So multiple secret churches having multiple truths, each one laying claim to originality. And none of the prophets, preachers, priests or whomever can simply state where they get their authority from. They've declared it for themselves. All of them.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Ok so what does Romans 14 have to do with "the Lords day" being the Sabbath day or Sunday when it is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days?
This part of the passage.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This part of the passage.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Ok so what does Romans 14 have to do with "the Lords day" being the Sabbath day or Sunday when it is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and not what days God esteems over other days? - Nothing.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Check the dating of the books of the new testament. And "the Word" of John 1 has nothing to do with the bible.

Why what came first the spoken Word of God or the written Word of God? Was the church there when God said let there be light or when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Genesis 1:3; John 1:1-4; 14). The Word of God has everything to do with the bible as it is Gods' Words given to us from the living Word of God.
 
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swordsman1

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Yes we know what is written outside of scripture from the teachings and traditions of men but what does the bible actually say and does it support that view? (scripture please)

If the term "the Lord's Day" was commonly used by Christians to refer to Sunday at the time John wrote Revelation (and I have provided evidence it was), then it is highly likely that John was using this term to refer to Sunday in Rev 1:10.

There is no verse that says "the Lord's day" is the Jewish sabbath. The term only appears once in scripture, so we cannot deduce any more about it from scripture than that one instance. Attempting to form a tenuous link between it and the phrases like "the Lord of the sabbath" to make it mean the Jewish sabbath is not exegetically sound.

What matters in bible interpretation is the authors original intention in using a particular term, and knowing what his audience would have understood by it. Is there any evidence that 1st & 2nd Century Christians referred to the Jewish sabbath as "the Lord's day"? No, there isn't. Is there any evidence that 1st & 2nd Century Christians referred to Sunday as the "the Lord's day"? Yes, there is plenty.
 
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HIM

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If the term "the Lord's Day" was commonly used by Christians to refer to Sunday at the time John wrote Revelation (and I have provided evidence it was), then it is highly likely that John was using this term to refer to Sunday in Rev 1:10.

There is no verse that says "the Lord's day" is the Jewish sabbath. The term only appears once in scripture, so we cannot deduce any more about it from scripture than that one instance. Attempting to form a tenuous link between it and the phrases like "the Lord of the sabbath" to make it mean the Jewish sabbath is not exegetically sound.

What matters in bible interpretation is the authors original intention in using a particular term, and knowing what his audience would have understood by it. Is there any evidence that 1st & 2nd Century Christians referred to the Jewish sabbath as "the Lord's day"? No, there isn't. Is there any evidence that 1st & 2nd Century Christians referred to Sunday as the "the Lord's day"? Yes, there is plenty.
What evidence from the 1st? And who has preserved and collected said evidence? And has the Catholic Church apostatized and tried to keep secrets?
 
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swordsman1

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What evidence from the 1st? And who has preserved and collected said evidence? And has the Catholic Church apostatized and tried to keep secrets?

The Didache was written 50-70 AD (before John wrote Revelation)

Ignatius wrote his letter to the Magnesians in 107 AD, just 12 years after Revelation

The Gospel of Peter was written sometime between 100-150 AD.
 
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timothyu

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The Church came first. And determined what the word of God is.
The gentile church self determined from many books predating itself what would be in the canon, not what the word of God would be. The original church of the Way which predated the gentile church built itself upon the words of Jesus, later recorded in the Gospels, yet even that church did not predate scripture as Jesus spoke from the old testament.
 
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Chesterton

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LoveGodsWord

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Then how was St. Paul writing so many letters to established churches?
In the days of Jesus, Paul and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures and it was these scriptures that foretold of the coming Messiah in Jesus. The new testament scriptures came from the old testament scriptures and together they make up Gods' Word, pointing to Jesus as the living Word of God and the creator of heaven and earth.
 
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R7-12

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"The Lord's Day" is "The Day of the Lord" mentioned countless times throughout the entire Bible in reference to "The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord." Doing a simple search of The Day of the Lord" will bear this out.

John was in the spirit and given visions pertaining to this period in God's plan. Hence, all that follows in the rest of the Book of Revelation.

It does not refer to any specific day of the week, certainly not the "Day of the Sun." Neither does it refer to the Sabbath (the seventh day or the millennium) due to the fact that some of the prophecies in the book occur outside of the millennial period, i.e. prior to Christ's return and after the millennial period - the second resurrection, the Great White Throne Judgment, etc..
 
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HIM

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The Didache was written 50-70 AD (before John wrote Revelation)

Ignatius wrote his letter to the Magnesians in 107 AD, just 12 years after Revelation

The Gospel of Peter was written sometime between 100-150 AD.
The dates you provided are all debatable. Ignatius at best has the most support for the date you provided. It and the Didache were preserved and are promoted by whom? With that being understood when exactly did they apostatize? Before or after?

The Gospel of Peter is not recognized by any of any note, so not quit sure why you even give mention of it.
 
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HIM

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Verse 5 says One man esteemeth one day above another:

This is speaking of both esteeming saturday or sunday above the others. The next part is important however.

another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Good luck proving that Paul is discussing is the Sabbath.

The discourse in Romans 14 is on arguing over opinions not the word of God. KJV says in verse one doubtful disputations. We are being counseled not to argue over opinions. Opinions are being disputed the Word of God is not.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Here it is in the Greek.

Rom 14:1 AND δε THO τον WHO IS WEAK ασθενουντα IN THA τη FAITH πιστει RECEIVE YE προσλαμβανεσθε NOT μη FOR εις ARGUMENTS διακρισεις OF OPINIONS διαλογισμων

Here is Thayer's findings on the definition of the words highlighted in bold emphasis

διάκρισις, διακρισεως, ἡ (διακρίνω), a distinguishing, discerning, judging: πνευμάτων, 1Co 12:10; καλοῦ τέ καί κακοῦ, Heb 5:14; μή εἰς διακρίσεις διαλογισμῶν, not for the purpose of passing judgment on opinions, as to which one is to be preferred as the more correct, Rom 14:1 (see διαλοσμος, 1). (Xenophon, Plato, others.)*

διαλογισμός, διαλογισμοῦ, ὁ (διαλογίζομαι), the Septuagint for מַחֲשָׁבָה and Chaldean רַעְיוֹן, in Greek writings from Plato down, the thinking of a man deliberating with himself; hence,
1. a thought, inward reasoning: Luk 2:35; Luk 5:22; Luk 6:8; Luk 9:46f; Rom 14:1 (yet some bring this under 2); the reasoning of those who think themselves to be wise, Rom 1:21; 1Co 3:20; an opinion: κριταί διαλογισμῶν πονηρῶν, judges with evil thoughts, i.e. who follow perverse opinions, reprehensible principles, Jas 2:4 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)); purpose, design: Mat 15:19; Mar 7:21.
 
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