Assyrians on Sabbath and Sunday Worship

[LoveGodsWord]

I was responding to what you said. And I also noted that the context indicates it includes the weekly Sabbath, not just the yearly. Indeed it is all the appointed times, which also included the Sabbath.

Therefore the poster was not incorrect. He was correct. Col. 2 includes the Sabbath. Whatever you do with the other elements you need to do with it.

They are all stated to be shadows.

As posted earlier your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. See post about yours (post 119 linked)

 

[tall73]

It is the sabbaths in the Feast days however that are the topic of subject matter in Colossians 2:16 as they were shadow laws pointing to the body of Christ.

You just indicated that Ezekiel 45 was the OT parallel, which I agree with. But it also included the weekly Sabbath. And it included the new moon.

And both are shadows. And the Sabbath is a memorial not only of creation, but of redemption for Israel (Deut. 5).

Moreover, the new moon is also called a shadow, and you have not stated how it was fulfilled, other than having sacrifices. But the weekly sabbath also had sacrifices. So if that is all it takes to be a fulfilled shadow, then that applies to the Sabbath as well.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You just indicated that Ezekiel 45 was the OT parallel, which I agree with. But it also included the weekly Sabbath. And it included the new moon.

And both are shadows. And the Sabbath is a memorial not only of creation, but of redemption for Israel (Deut. 5).

Moreover, the new moon is also called a shadow, and you have not stated how it was fulfilled, other than having sacrifices. But the weekly sabbath also had sacrifices. So if that is all it takes to be a fulfilled shadow, then that applies to the Sabbath as well.

As posted earlier your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. See post about yours (post 119 linked). Where have I ever argued that Gods' 4th commandment was not a part of the days of holy convocation of the annual Feast days? I haven't. I have always included it. Your trying to make arguments no one is making.

 

[tall73]

As posted earlier your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about. See post about yours (post 119 linked)

I was quoting from that post. You made the argument that Ezekiel 45 and Col. 2 use the plural.

And they both include the weekly Sabbath. So your argument that the Sabbath was not a shadow is with the text.

The plural is because it refers to all the various sabbaths in the type.

There were feasts (Pentecost, Booths, etc.)

And there were sabbaths (weekly Sabbath, Day of Atonement, trumpets, etc.).

So the plural refers to all the sabbaths--including the weekly.

Therefore it is a shadow.

 

[tall73]

Where have I ever argued that Gods' 4th commandment was not a part of the days of holy convocation of the annual Feast days? I haven't. I have always included it. Your trying to make arguments no one is making.

I am pointing out that it was included in the parallel text to Col. 2, and both use the plural.

The weekly Sabbath is included in Col. 2, because like Ezek. 45 it is a listing of appointed times, along with the reference to the sacrifices associated.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I was quoting from the one just above mine. You made the argument that Ezekiel 45 and Col. 2 use the plural.

So? I posted the scripture references to the plural sabbaths in the Feast days and your point here is?

And they both include the weekly Sabbath. So your argument that the Sabbath was not a shadow is with the text.

So? I have always included Gods 4th commandment in the Feast days and your point here is?

The plural is because it refers to all the various sabbaths in the type.

That is what I just said and your point here is?

There were feasts (Pentecost, Booths, etc.) And there were sabbaths (weekly Sabbath, Day of Atonement, trumpets, etc.). So the plural refers to all the sabbaths--including the weekly.

That is what I just said and your point here is?

Therefore it is a shadow.

No. Gods 4th commandment is a shadow only in the annual Feast days as it was a Holy convocation which means a calling out to a public meeting to a sacred place. It is the sabbaths in the Feast days that are no longer a requirement in the new covenant not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken that is also outside of Gods' Feast days and is every "seventh day" of the week.

As posted earlier it is impossible that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to God's 4th commandment as God's 4th commandment was both inside and outside of the annual Feast days. Gods' 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of moral right doing and moral wrong doing. The context to Colossians 2:16 is not to God's 4th commandment but to the meat and drink offering, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the annual Feast days.

As posted earlier it is impossible for Gods' 10 commandments to be a shadow of anything because it is a part of the "finished work of creation" *Genesis 2:1-3 that points backwards to the finished work of creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) not forwards to things to come (Colossians 2:17). There was no sin and no law and no plan of salvation therefore "no shadow laws" from the old covenant because there was no old covenant when God mafe the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11. Gods 4th commandment points backwards because it is a memorial of the finished work of creation and the celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth...

Hope this is helpful.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am pointing out that it was included in the parallel text to Col. 2, and both use the plural.

The weekly Sabbath is included in Col. 2, because like Ezek. 45 it is a listing of appointed times, along with the reference to the sacrifices associated.

The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God, not an ordinance. Exodus 20:8-11, Col 2:14 You can choose to believe God meant forget when He asked us to Remember the Sabbath and Holy day of the Lord thy God. I would not advise this though. God said His weekly Sabbath a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which is why it continues forever to be God’s only chosen day Isaiah 66:23. We have free will and Jesus is coming soon. If you do not want to keep the Sabbath holy now, why would you want to on the New earth?

 

[tall73]

So? I posted the scripture references to the plural sabbaths in the Feast days and your point here is?

So? I have always included Gods 4th commandment in the Feast days and your point here is?

That is what I just said and your point here is?

That is what I just said and your point here is?

My point here is the weekly Sabbath was included in Ezekiel 45, and the parallel Col. 2. So it is a shadow.

 

[tall73]

No. Gods 4th commandment is a shadow only in the annual Feast days as it was a Holy convocation which means a calling out to a public meeting to a sacred place.

So the Sabbath WAS a shadow sometimes?

It is included in the list. You have to treat it the same as the others.

 

[tall73]

As posted earlier it is impossible that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to God's 4th commandment as God's 4th commandment was both inside and outside of the annual Feast days. Gods' 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of moral right doing and moral wrong doing.

It was not the ten only that gives the knowledge of moral right and wrong. And yes, I know you have acknowledged that before. But you keep putting that claim again and again that it is the ten, so I just note it again.

But more than that, the Sabbath was a sign with Israel IN ADDITION to the laws by which one lives:

Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. “Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

My point here is the weekly Sabbath was included in Ezekiel 45, and the parallel Col. 2. So it is a shadow.

No Ezekiel 45 is referring to the annual sabbath(s) feasts. Like Col 2:14-16 in context it is talking about food and drink and there is no food or drink mentioned in the commandments of God. Plus God promised the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and asked us to “remember” and the weekly Sabbath points back to Creation Genesis 2:1-3 not forward to Christ. Plus we see the Sabbath as the day of worship on The New Earth Isaiah 66:23 so what you are teaching here is not correct. Jesus told to keep all of the commandments and to be careful what we teach each other. Matthew 5:17-20 God bless.

 

[The Liturgist]

Your response..

Really? Where was that I must have missed it. Where is the scripture?

@Albion just refuted as misinformation the falsehood that non Adventist churches have abolished the Sabbatine commandment or moved it. This is a historical fact.

The scripture says no such thing it says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." *Exodus 20:8 and that the "seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" in Exodus 20:10. I suggest you re-read God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11.

No, that is merely the translation of the phrase by the KJV. What I wrote was semantically equivalent, since the honor of what is holy is equivalent to solemn remembrance. I find it strange you would object to such a minor difference of wording, which has no weight on the commandment’s meaning. Consider the Challoner Douai Rheims, which renders it as “Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.” which actually does have different semantics, because the syntactic structure of this English translation of the Vulgate suggests we are to remember to keep the day Holy, whereas the syntactic structure of the KJV, and the paraphrase I used, instead says that we are to keep the Sabbath Holy by the remembrance thereof.

So, one can rewrite the KJV sentence without changing the semantics or even the words used as “To Keep the Sabbath day Holy, remember it”, and this rendering is syntactically equivalent to the KJV rendering, as well as all English translations of the LXX that I am aware of (the Lancelot Brenton Septuagint and the Orthodox Study Bible).

 

[tall73]

No Ezekiel 45 is referring to the annual sabbath(s) feasts. Like Col 2:14-16 in context it is talking about food and drink and there is no food or drink mentioned in the commandments of God. Plus God promised the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and asked us to “remember” and the weekly Sabbath points back to Creation Genesis 2:1-3 not forward to Christ. Plus we see the Sabbath as the day of worship on The New Earth Isaiah 66:23 so what you are teaching here is not correct. God bless.

The verses following spell out each thing included. So we don't have to guess whether the weekly is included. It includes the weekly Sabbath.

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

Eze 46:1 “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.

 

[The Liturgist]

It was not the ten only that gives the knowledge of moral right and wrong. And yes, I know you have acknowledged that before. But you keep putting that claim again and again that itis the ten, so I just note it again.

But more than that, the Sabbath was a sign with Israel IN ADDITION to the laws by which one lives:

Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. “Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.

This is an extremely valid point; the hyper-emphasis of the ten commandments when in fact, our Lord epitomized them into just two, the Summary of the Law and Prophets.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The verses following spell out each thing included. So we don't have to guess whether the weekly is included. It includes the weekly Sabbath.

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

Eze 46:1 “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.

Jesus is talking about burnt offerings and feasts days, which could fall on the weekly Sabbath day, which does not delete the weekly Sabbath.

The seventh day Sabbath is the only holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 which is why it continues forever Isaiah 66:23 and will never be a shadow.

 

[tall73]

Jesus is talking about burnt offerings and feasts days, which could fall on the weekly Sabbath day, which does not delete the weekly Sabbath.

None of them were deleted.

But it did not say just those that fall on the yearly. That is your explanation to avoid the problem.

Nor does it say it in Numbers 28

Num 28:9 “On the Sabbath day, two male lambs a year old without blemish, and two tenths of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, and its drink offering:
Num 28:10 this is the burnt offering of every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

The seventh day Sabbath is the only holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 which is why it continues forever Isaiah 66:23.

It was not alleged to have been deleted. But it is a shadow, per Col. 2, along with the other appointed times.

So what you do with one you need to do with the others. And Isaiah 66:23 references one of those others, the new moon.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

None of them were deleted.

But it did not say just those that fall on the yearly. That is your explanation to avoid the problem.

Nor does it say it in Numbers 28

Num 28:9 “On the Sabbath day, two male lambs a year old without blemish, and two tenths of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, and its drink offering:
Num 28:10 this is the burnt offering of every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.



It was not alleged to have been deleted. But it is a shadow, per Col. 2, along with the other appointed times.

So what you do with one you need to do with the others. And Isaiah 66:23 references one of those others, the new moon.

The sabbath that is a shadow is an ordinance. Col 2:14. God’s 4th commandment and weekly Sabbath has never been referred to as an ordinance in the Bible. It is a commandment of God. What is an ordinance is the ceremonial annual sabbath(s) festivals which is all about food and drink and is in context to what Col 2:14-16 is referring to. There is no mention of food or drink in God’s Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath commandment that God said “Remember” points back to creation Genesis 2:1-3. You are free to believe what you want, but breaking God’s laws is considered sin 1 John 3:4 Romans 3:20. Jesus tells us that whoever teaches the least of these commandments will be least in the kingdom of heaven Matthew 5:19 so it’s not something I would advise teaching people especially when God said the weekly Sabbath day is the holy day of our Creator and Savior. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13

 

[tall73]

The sabbath that is a shadow is an ordinance. Col 2:14. God’s 4th commandment and weekly Sabbath has never been referred to as an ordinance in the Bible. It is a commandment of God.

What is an ordinance is the ceremonial sabbath(s) festivals which is all about food and drink and is in context to what Col 2:16 is referring to.

You would have to spell out your argument more. The LXX refers to the yearly as everlasting laws:

Lev 23:14 καὶ ἄρτον καὶ πεφρυγμένα χίδρα νέα οὐ φάγεσθε ἕως εἰς αὐτὴν τὴν ἡμέραν ταύτην, ἕως ἂν προσενέγκητε ὑμεῖς τὰ δῶρα τῷ θεῷ ὑμῶν· νόμιμον αἰώνιον εἰς τὰς γενεὰς ὑμῶν ἐν πάσῃ κατοικίᾳ ὑμῶν.

There is no mention of food or drink in God’s Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11.

There is in the list of food and drink offerings for the appointed times, of which the Sabbath is one.


And there is for Ezekiel 45-46, which is the parallel to Col. 2

 

[Ceallaigh]

true, but that fact does not seem to matter to them. they place what ever meaning they want on it to make it say something it does not say. ignoring the evidence that clearly points to a different meaning.

I don't see how it helps either point of view. I still maintain Christians started calling Sunday the Lord's Day because of the Resurrection, not because of Rev 1:10. To me personally Saturday is the Sabbath and Sunday is the Lord's Day. Also known as the Weekend.

 

[tall73]

The Sabbath commandment that God said “Remember” points back to creation Genesis 2:1-3.

Genesis and Exodus are one continuous narrative. Genesis was not written in the garden of Eden. It was written likely after the statement of God on the mountain to Israel. Which means that the words quoted are those of God to the Israelites, at Sinai, and in the context of their covenant.

And the Sabbath command is directed towards Israel.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Now if you say you are Israel, then why are you not keeping the other everlasting things in Col. 2 and Ezekiel 45 that were given to Israel?

Lev 23:14 And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

You are free to believe what you want, but breaking God’s laws is considered sin 1 John 3:4 Romans 3:20.

And you can believe what you want, as though that needed to be said. But God's laws included the yearly. They were not done away with. But some laws were fulfilled.

Jesus tells us that whoever teaches the least of these commandments will be least in the kingdom of heaven Matthew 5:19 so it’s not something I would advise teaching people especially when God said the weekly Sabbath day is the holy day of our Creator and Savior. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13

It was not limited to the ten. He covers divorce, vows, eye for eye etc. It was the whole law. But you don't keep the whole law.

And if you think some were fulfilled (which He also said) then you are agreeing with others, but you disagree on one point that was fulfilled.

Ezekiel 45 includes the weekly Sabbath. And Col. 2 is referring to the same appointed times with their food and drink offerings, of which the weekly Sabbath is one.

Which means they are all shadows. So what you do with the Day of Atonement, and the Passover, you also have to do with the Sabbath.