I agree 110% with Joe!

[Always in His Presence]

Europe is doing just fine .. thank you very much! May be live in Europe few years before criticizing their policy!

Who criticized their policy? They are a strong capitalist type of economy that has socialist programs.

Did you know that Denmark has no minimum wage?

 

[DaisyDay]

Who criticized their policy? They are a strong capitalist type of economy that has socialist programs.

Did you know that Denmark has no minimum wage?

Do they need one? Their McDonald's workers earn the equivalent of $22/hr - with benefits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/03/08/denmark-minimum-wage-mcdonalds-aoc/

The Danish model is a decentralized system in which pay and working conditions are established by collective-bargaining agreements between trade unions and employers’ organizations. Our unions are strong, mostly because employers and employees both gain from the relationship. If the labor agreements are not respected, workers have the right to go on strike and, conversely, the employers have the right to lock out workers. The state interferes only if negotiations break down. They rarely do.

Workers benefit from flexicurity because the social safety net includes universal health insurance and paid sick leave, and collective-bargaining agreements generally include paid maternity leave and a pension plan, as well as good wages. Workers who pay into an unemployment insurance fund get up to two years of unemployment benefits after losing their jobs, and the government runs aggressive training and counseling services to help them return to work quickly. As for employers, they can shed workers easily because severance pay and termination notices are limited, there are few procedural hurdles, and the government picks up the tab on benefits such as health care. That same streamlining allows employers to hire workers back quickly when demand for their products or services goes up. Win-win.

"Flexicurity" - sounds good.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do they need one? Their McDonald's workers earn the equivalent of $22/hr - with benefits.

Yup. 11.00 of it goes to the government in taxes and fees.

 

[Oneiric1975]

"Communism is a failed system, universally failed system," Biden admitted. "I don't see socialism as a very useful substitute, but that's another story," he continued without elaborating.

100% in agreement on both items.

Communism is a failed system and Socialism is not a very useful substitute.

...except as a US citizen you fully enjoy that socialism. You just ignore the fact that there are many socialist aspects to your daily life which you value and would fight to preserve.

But it's good that you can ignore those things you don't like while enjoying the benefits of those things.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Europe is doing just fine .. thank you very much! May be live in Europe few years before criticizing their policy!

It's hilarious to read critiques of Western Europe's socialism from folks who clearly have never had any business dealings with folks in Europe. On my many trips to work in Finland, Belgium and the UK my European coworkers were perfectly happy capitalists. One guy even had is own cabin on the Baltic. I don't have that and I'm a life-long American. I'm lucky if I have one home. Oh yeah, and I live in fear of losing my healthcare coverage. Something my European coworkers don't worry about.

 

[mark46]

Who criticized their policy? They are a strong capitalist type of economy that has socialist programs.

Did you know that Denmark has no minimum wage?

Perhaps, we should consider this in another thread. Do you support the welfare system of Denmark, with a much more vibrant capitalist economic/market system and a welfare state set of safety net programs?
I would be fine with no minimum wage if we had Denmark's safety net programs.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dozens of ways depending on whom you speak with. IMHO it all boils down to three -
1. The strong capitalist type - as in Europe
2. The failed states - too many to mention
3. The pipe dream that the left promotes, but in reality has never existed.

Will any of those people I'm to speak with provide some substance, or am I on my own?

 

[stevil]

Since president he has made many moves towards socialism.
His "denial is a..."
If only the blind could see.

Socialism and Capitalism isn't a dichotomy.
There is a pragmatic middle ground.

 

[mark46]

It's hilarious to read critiques of Western Europe's socialism from folks who clearly have never had any business dealings with folks in Europe. On my many trips to work in Finland, Belgium and the UK my European coworkers were perfectly happy capitalists. One guy even had is own cabin on the Baltic. I don't have that and I'm a life-long American. I'm lucky if I have one home. Oh yeah, and I live in fear of losing my healthcare coverage. Something my European coworkers don't worry about.

Rich European capitalists have found a societal answer that work for them, and one that keeps them very rich. They make sure that the poor are cared for, and that everyone has an extensive safety net.

 

[mark46]

Socialism and Capitalism isn't a dichotomy.
There is a pragmatic middle ground.

I disagree. Having a welfare state with an extensive safety net (and high taxes) has exactly ZERO to do with Socialism. Having environmental and safety regulations on capitalist businesses also has exactly ZERO to do with Socialism.

In the US, Republicans (and the far left) confuse the masses by calling safety net programs and environmental regulation "socialism". For example, It is NOT socialism to remove the tax incentives to the fossil fuel industry. It is NOT socialism to guarantee affordable health care, parental leave, affordable child care and voting rights to our citizens. Giving incentives to bring more women back into the workplace is NOT socialism.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

Who criticized their policy? They are a strong capitalist type of economy that has socialist programs.

Did you know that Denmark has no minimum wage?

I apologies if I thought you were criticizing European economic policy. Many Americans have wrong view of Europe. Often time conservatives says “we don’t want to bring European socialism to America” . Western Europe is a Capitalist society with many social safety nets with high tax rate. I don’t mind paying 60% tax if education, healthcare and other service are free to me.

 

[RDKirk]

This isn't really accurate. A number of western European countries consider themselves to be socialist and most have had openly socialist governments on multiple occasions including the present.

Socialist isn't a bad word in most of Europe like it is in America. Its certainly not something people would feel the need to try and deny or feel they had to defend themselves over.

The problem of "different definitions of socialist" again.

 

[RDKirk]

I disagree.

I don't think you do.

 

[Kentonio]

The problem of "different definitions of socialist" again.

Pretty much, although it's worth mentioning that even in a fairly conservative European country like the UK, its political suicide to be against things like universal healthcare.

Much of Europe have long established national policies that would certainly be denounced as communism in the US.

 

[RDKirk]

Pretty much, although it's worth mentioning that even in a fairly conservative European country like the UK, its political suicide to be against things like universal healthcare.

Much of Europe have long established national policies that would certainly be denounced as communism in the US.

The US has long-established national policies that are still denounced as communism in the US.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yup. 11.00 of it goes to the government in taxes and fees.

For which they get free healthcare and free college tuition.

 

[Kentonio]

I disagree. Having a welfare state with an extensive safety net (and high taxes) has exactly ZERO to do with Socialism. Having environmental and safety regulations on capitalist businesses also has exactly ZERO to do with Socialism.

In the US, Republicans (and the far left) confuse the masses by calling safety net programs and environmental regulation "socialism". For example, It is NOT socialism to remove the tax incentives to the fossil fuel industry. It is NOT socialism to guarantee affordable health care, parental leave, affordable child care and voting rights to our citizens. Giving incentives to bring more women back into the workplace is NOT socialism.

Erm, you seem to be misunderstanding what socialism actually is. Things like a welfare state and extensive safety net for all citizens is EXACTLY what socialism is.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Will any of those people I'm to speak with provide some substance, or am I on my own?

Got no clue, let us know how it goes.

For which they get free healthcare and free college tuition.

They pay for college the rest of their life through taxes. That is so much better than our system.

 

[durangodawood]

Dozens of ways depending on whom you speak with. IMHO it all boils down to three -
1. The strong capitalist type - as in Europe
2. The failed states - too many to mention
3. The pipe dream that the left promotes, but in reality has never existed.

If that is allowed as a definition of "socialism" then obviously it isn't "failed".

Would completely agree that state communism failed.

So I only agree 100%. And disagree 10%.

 

[RDKirk]

They pay for college the rest of their life through taxes. That is so much better than our system.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, but some ways of paying for a social good can definitely be better for individuals and for society than others.