I agree 110% with Joe!

[mama2one]

Debunked: Is Social Security Socialism? - Financial Market News


"But why is the social security system called democratic socialism? That’s because America is a democratic republic, and since social security structure is a federal department, with the taxpayers funding it but controlled by the federal government only, this includes ideals of both socialism and democracy; thus, the name democratic socialism.

It is also called so because it has democratic underpinnings; for instance, you can opt out of the social security program as it is not mandated by the Constitution or the federal government. As such, it is not a legally binding entity that forces citizens to be a part of it; this is where the socialist part fades away and the democratic part comes in; making the social security system a form of democratic socialism."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Got no clue, let us know how it goes.

So it's a meaningless scare word. Got it.

They pay for college the rest of their life through taxes. That is so much better than our system.

Indeed it is -- our taxes only pay up to high school.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[TLK Valentine]

if one is against social security, don't sign up for it so it'll be there for me

Ever tried applying for a job without an SSN?

 

[98cwitr]

"Communism is a failed system, universally failed system," Biden admitted. "I don't see socialism as a very useful substitute, but that's another story," he continued without elaborating.

100% in agreement on both items.

Communism is a failed system and Socialism is not a very useful substitute.

I vote no simply because it's not "another story"

Socialism is required to implement communism. Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, and Mao all said it

 

[98cwitr]

if one is against social security, don't sign up for it so it'll be there for me

Unfortunately there is no opt-out option. I'd opt out today if I could.

 

[Kentonio]

I vote no simply because it's not "another story"

Socialism is required to implement communism. Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, and Mao all said it

Lots of good things are required to produce bad things, I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[98cwitr]

Lots of good things are required to produce bad things, I'm not sure what your point is.

There isn't any good in socialism that's practiced...maybe on paper, sure.

 

[Kentonio]

There isn't any good in socialism that's practiced...maybe on paper, sure.

I'm fairly sure the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people by now, who are still alive in the UK since the formation of the NHS thanks to universal healthcare coverage would roundly disagree with you.

 

[mark46]

I don't think you do.

The issue is the definition of socialism. The response to my post was that that I had basically defined socialism. In my mind, what I had defined was the Nordic system, which is certainly NOT socialism (but not to be).

For me, it is not a nebulous term. There are Socialist parties all over the world. We used to have a serious one. For me, the issue is made clear in Europe. There are parties that support the idea of the welfare states. In many countries, this includes all the major parties. And yes, I am biased toward the academic definitions that were drilled into me in school.

Socialist parties have traditional socialist platforms, which include worker or state ownership of industry, and a general opposition to capitalist markets. There are a few socialist countries, but not many.

 

[mark46]

Erm, you seem to be misunderstanding what socialism actually is. Things like a welfare state and extensive safety net for all citizens is EXACTLY what socialism is.

Ok, that is your definition.

You agree with our US Republicans in your characterization. For me, Europe has socialist parties. It also has many, many parties that support strong social safety nets.

Please give us a couple example of countries run by socialist parties so that we might better understand your position. As has been pointed out, the Nordic counties are NOT an example of socialist states (the example given was of very capitalist Denmark).

 

[mark46]

I'm fairly sure the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people by now, who are still alive in the UK since the formation of the NHS thanks to universal healthcare coverage would roundly disagree with you.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, but some ways of paying for a social good can definitely be better for individuals and for society than others.

The US and business has done fine when we had much higher taxes; for example, under Kennedy. I am fine with much higher marginal rates, if the taxes were used to provide a much better safety net.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm fairly sure the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people by now, who are still alive in the UK since the formation of the NHS thanks to universal healthcare coverage would roundly disagree with you.

And there are millions that see NHS's shortcomings, failures, and overreach into individual rights of UK citizens. All opinions are noted.

"universal healthcare coverage" = forcing your neighbor to pay for your healthcare and you being forced to pay for your neighbors'. Does that sound right?

 

[mark46]

Got no clue, let us know how it goes.



They pay for college the rest of their life through taxes. That is so much better than our system.

I believe that the political argument should be about the extent of the safety net that is needed. IMO, the US doesn't come close to providing the minimum that should standard in a developed country.

I agree that free college for all may be too much. However, two free years community college or technical school may be a very good idea.

 

[durangodawood]

And there are millions that see NHS's shortcomings, failures, and overreach into individual rights of UK citizens. All opinions are noted.

"universal healthcare coverage" = forcing your neighbor to pay for your healthcare and you being forced to pay for your neighbors'. Does that sound right?

My UK people have complaints about NHS of course. But then they look at our system and shudder.

I do think some basic health care is properly a collective matter. Similar to K-12 education.

 

[mama2one]

Unfortunately there is no opt-out option. I'd opt out today if I could.

"It is also called so because it has democratic underpinnings; for instance, you can opt out of the social security program as it is not mandated by the Constitution or the federal government."


yes, opt out by not taking it when you're age 67!
no one forces anyone to sign up for it OR medicare
don't take medicare, either

 

[98cwitr]

"It is also called so because it has democratic underpinnings; for instance, you can opt out of the social security program as it is not mandated by the Constitution or the federal government."


yes, opt out by not taking it when you're age 67!

No, I mean effectually. There is no way for me to opt-out, I've tried.

Why would I not take back what I've paid in?

 

[trunks2k]

My UK people have complaints about NHS of course. But then they look at our system and shudder.

I often use my sister as an example. Born and raised in the US, lives in the UK now. She has had her issues with the NHS, as have some of her friends. My parents like to use those issues as an example of how horrible the NHS is. The two main issues being my sister having to give up the doc she liked when she moved across town and got put into a different catchment or whatever it is, and one of my sister's friends having to move in order to be able to get certain treatment.

My parents seem to not:
1.) Realize they had the same issue as my sister did when my mom's insurance her job provided changed. Docs they used no longer accepted it and they had to scramble to find new docs.
2.) Realize My wife deals a lot with organ transplants; which is regionalized. She's told patients that the only way they have a chance of getting on a transplant list is to move to a different region of the country.
3.) Acknowledge my sister works extremely closely with the NHS, strongly supports it, would never in a million years go back to the US system, and became a dual citizen so she can vote against the parties that want to weaken the NHS.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[98cwitr]

cause in post#48, you're against socialism & people say social security is socialism

so opt out at 65 & refuse medicare, also

That's the real problem with socialism, that you and I both are acknowledging: You're forced into it, there isn't a freedom of choice. I'd like to make that choice now, because it's being taken from me now...not in 30 years.

 

[mama2one]

That's the real problem with socialism, that you and I both are acknowledging: You're forced into it, there isn't a freedom of choice. I'd like to make that choice now, because it's being taken from me now...not in 30 years.

there are many who can't take social security

get a gov't job

8 Types of Americans Who Won't Get Social Security