WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

LoveGodsWord

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I have read, and understood, every book, chapter and verse in the Bible, and in multiple translations. I consider my POV biblical, just like every other Christian on the forum. Yes, nearly all promises are for those who believe, but some are more general. OTOH, it's too late in the day to play proof text ping-pong.
Well of course you are free to believe as you wish. That is between you and God and I do not judge you. The scriptures are provided against your teachings in the OP and a number of other posts on page one for all to see are only provided as a help and sent only in love for anyone that is interested in what Gods Word says on the subject. They are Gods' Word not mine and they are there for all to see. We should be careful as Gods' Word does not contradict itself. If we find that something that we believe is in contradiction with the scriptures it should be a warning to us that perhaps what we believe is in error and not biblical and lead us back to a prayerful study of God's Word asking God to be our guide and teacher. According to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
 
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The Liturgist

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Prove it. Let's talk scripture.

That sounds to me a bit like we would risk inflicting unending torment on ourselves if we argued any more; if either universalism or annhilationism are true, or if neither are true, it does not concern us since we are both saved Christians, so if the two of us are debating this point and others a quadrillion years in the future where has that gotten us?

But then we might risk arguing for all time about who to moderate us!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That sounds to me a bit like we would risk inflicting unending torment on ourselves if we argued any more; if either universalism or annhilationism are true, or if neither are true, it does not concern us since we are both saved Christians, so if the two of us are debating this point and others a quadrillion years in the future where has that gotten us? But then we might risk arguing for all time about who to moderate us!

Thank you for providing your opinion. Our opinions do not really matter much according to the scriptures though. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Well of course you are free to believe as you wish. That is between you and God and I do not judge you. The scriptures are provided against your teachings in the OP and a number of other posts on page one for all to see are only provided as a help and sent only in love for anyone that is interested in what Gods Word says on the subject. They are Gods' Word not mine and they are there for all to see. We should be careful as Gods' Word does not contradict itself. If we find that something that we believe is in contradiction with the scriptures it should be a warning to us that perhaps what we believe is in error and not biblical and lead us back to a prayerful study of God's Word asking God to be our guide and teacher. According to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Odd, isn't it, that I would tell you much the same? Not too many years ago I subscribed to Hell and eternal conscious torment. I was aware of damnationism, annihilationism and universalism - at some point a few years ago, I decided it was time to investigate and decide. I set them up as theories, and examined a very ordinary KJV to see what theory fit the data (Biblical text) best. It took about two years, during which time I found little support for annihilationism. For damnationism, I kept finding that the verses supporting it were badly translated and/or tweaked. I became a confirmed universalist long before I reached the Revelation. I used Strong's and Young's Concordances, the Oxford English Dictionary and my God-given common sense. Of course I have read all the verses listed/quoted in your OP, but my interpretation is different. My notes grew into a 200+ page book, which I just now realized would qualify as a commentary, though you would not yet agree with its conclusions.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Odd, isn't it, that I would tell you much the same?
Well the difference between us is that I have provided you with Gods Word which are not my words but God's. In response you provided me with your words denying the scriptures that are shared with you in love that disagree with you. So who should we believe and follow Gods Words or your words that disagree with Gods' Word?
Not too many years ago I subscribed to Hell and eternal conscious torment. I was aware of damnationism, annihilationism and universalism - at some point a few years ago, I decided it was time to investigate and decide. I set them up as theories, and examined a very ordinary KJV to see what theory fit the data (Biblical text) best. It took about two years, during which time I found little support for annihilationism. For damnationism, I kept finding that the verses supporting it were badly translated and/or tweaked. I became a confirmed universalist long before I reached the Revelation. I used Strong's and Young's Concordances, the Oxford English Dictionary and my God-given common sense. Of course I have read all the verses listed/quoted in your OP, but my interpretation is different. My notes grew into a 200+ page book, which I just now realized would qualify as a commentary, though you would not yet agree with its conclusions.
I do not believe in the Catholic doctrine of eternal burning hellfire. You must not have looked very hard in relation to what happens after the second coming in regards to the second death of the wicked. Even in the OP and the other posts provided on page one there is over 100+ scriptures posted that you say "There is little support". Either you did not see the scriptures provided in the OP here or you were not looking very hard. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. As posted earlier that is between you and God. The scriptures in the OP and on page one prove that Universalism is not biblical and a false teaching that makes a mockery of the gift of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Gods' grace according to the scriptures. Sorry dear friend but according to the scriptures there is no second chances at the second coming. His reward is with him to give every man according as his work shall be *Revelation 22:11-14.

Something to pray about.
 
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Lazarus Short

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I have prayed and studied. Did you think I crawled out from under a rock with my theology fully formed? I was a damnationist not so long ago. I just don't care to play proof-text ping pong anymore. I could do so, but a full exposition would require the full contents of my 200+ page book, after which, if you read it at all, you would without a doubt, dismiss it. In any case, it is FAR better to believe Jesus and worship the True God, than to go through what the wicked will surely endure before they too, bend the knee and confess Jesus as their Lord and God.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I have prayed and studied. Did you think I crawled out from under a rock with my theology fully formed? I was a damnationist not so long ago. I just don't care to play proof-text ping pong anymore. I could do so, but a full exposition would require the full contents of my 200+ page book, after which, if you read it at all, you would without a doubt, dismiss it. In any case, it is FAR better to believe Jesus and worship the True God, than to go through what the wicked will surely endure before they too, bend the knee and confess Jesus as their Lord and God.
We must be careful who we seek the truth of God's Word from. We can seek it from God or man but it is only in Gods' Word that we should seek to know Gods' truth as we seek it by asking God to be our guide and teacher through a prayerful study of His Word claiming His promises (see John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). We can only know the truth of God's Word as we seek it in Christ and are guided by His Spirit. There are few things that I know of that are further from the truth than Universalism which makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and the very scriptures as shown in the bible from both the old and new testaments.
 
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Lazarus Short

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We must be careful who we seek the truth of God's Word from. We can seek it from God or man but it is only in Gods' Word that we should seek to know Gods' truth as we seek it by asking God to be our guide and teacher through a prayerful study of His Word claiming His promises (see John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). We can only know the truth of God's Word as we seek it in Christ and are guided by His Spirit. There are few things that I know of that are further from the truth than Universalism which makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and the very scriptures as shown in the bible from both the old and new testaments.

"Know"? Then how is it that I know otherwise? One or both of us are wrong. For myself, I seriously doubt I was deceiving myself, or being deceived, as my notes grew to 200+ pages. Here's an example of what I am trying to say - an aunt of mine came back from being a JW, and I had a look at her old New World Translation (if you can call it a translation). I checked the beginning of the Gospel of John, and was shocked at how the text was mangled to fit the theology. That is the failing of so many translations - the theology is set first, and translation follows. I believe it should go the other way. I am presently reading a version without "hell" or related words, and besides that, it is the clearest version I have ever read. Compared to most, it is like looking at the world through a sparkling-clean window after having been used to dirty windows.

Further, I don't see how UR "...makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ...". I recall that He said that if He were lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself. I also recall the angels telling the shepherds at His birth about peace and goodwill toward men.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"Know"? Then how is it that I know otherwise? One or both of us are wrong. For myself, I seriously doubt I was deceiving myself, or being deceived, as my notes grew to 200+ pages. Here's an example of what I am trying to say - an aunt of mine came back from being a JW, and I had a look at her old New World Translation (if you can call it a translation). I checked the beginning of the Gospel of John, and was shocked at how the text was mangled to fit the theology. That is the failing of so many translations - the theology is set first, and translation follows. I believe it should go the other way. I am presently reading a version without "hell" or related words, and besides that, it is the clearest version I have ever read. Compared to most, it is like looking at the world through a sparkling-clean window after having been used to dirty windows.
Further, I don't see how UR "...makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ...". I recall that He said that if He were lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself. I also recall the angels telling the shepherds at His birth about peace and goodwill toward men.

According to the scriptures sin separates us from God so that he will not hear us in Isaiah 59:9 and if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin God will not hear us (Proverbs 28:9; 13). Also, there is the question of who we seek to know Gods' truth from. Do we seek it from the teachings of men or do we ask God and seek to know the truth of God through His Word by the promise of His Spirit (see John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). The only test to know if someone knows God or does not know is found in 1 John 2:3-4 and the scriptures teach he who God sends speaks the Word of God for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him and he that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:34; 36. Universalism is a message of peace and safety and the bible teaches "For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail on a woman with child; and they shall not escape" - 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Therefore the scriptures are something to pray about, believe and follow and not take lightly.
 
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Lazarus Short

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According to the scriptures sin separates us from God so that he will not hear us in Isaiah 59:9 and if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin God will not hear us (Proverbs 28:9; 13). Also, there is the question of who we seek to know Gods' truth from. Do we seek it from the teachings of men or do we ask God and seek to know the truth of God through His Word by the promise of His Spirit (see John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). The only test to know if someone knows God or does not know is found in 1 John 2:3-4 and the scriptures teach he who God sends speaks the Word of God for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him and he that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:34; 36. Universalism is a message of peace and safety and the bible teaches "For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail on a woman with child; and they shall not escape" - 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Therefore the scriptures are something to pray about, believe and follow and not take lightly.

So tell me, when we have peace & safety in the Kingdom, will you expect sudden destruction? I think you have taken the idea out of context, and made a straw man out of UR. You seem to think I take the Scriptures lightly, but I don't. Anyway, I never thought UR was a message of peace and safety, as if everyone, saints and sinners alike, enter the pearly gates under a shower of rose petals. Hardly - most will need to be salted with Fire. No, wait, I think the Scriptures say everyone. Do you even understand Godfire?
 
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WHY IS UNIVERSALISM NOT BIBLICAL?

Very simply the bible tells us so because there is no more second chances at the second coming for all the unrepentant wicked when Jesus returns. For example...

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE WICKED AT THE SECOND COMING?

WICKED SHALL BE DESTROYED
Psalm 145:20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him, but all the wicked He shall destroy
Psalm 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land, that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the Lord
Psalms 37:9-11 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait on the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yes, you shall diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Proverbs 14:11, The house of the wicked shall be destroyed: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish.
Psalm 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together; the end of the wicked shall be cut off
Psalm 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish, it is that they shall be destroyed forever
Psalms 94:23 He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil
The Lord our God will destroy them.
Proverbs 13:13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed; but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded
Proverbs 10:29 The way of the Lord is strength to the upright, but destruction shall be the workers of iniquity.
Hosea 7:13 Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me! I would redeem them, but they speak lies against Me
Philippians 1:28 in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God.
Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things
2 Peter 2:3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed
2 Peter 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Jude 1:10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

THEY SHALL PERISH
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs. They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away
Psalms 1:4 The wicked are not so,But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
Palms 1:6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.
Proverbs 19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish
Luke 13:3 Nay, but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever should believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received no the love of the truth that they might be saved

THE WICKED SHALL BE BURNT UP
Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in His hand, and he will throughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner. But He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest. And in the time of harvest, I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them. But gather the wheat into my barn
Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Malachi 4:1,3 For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble and th day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts. It shall leave them neither root nor branch...And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works therein shall be burnt up

THE WICKED SHALL BE CONSUMED
Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs. They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away
Psalms 104:35a Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth and let the wicked be no more

THE WICKED SHALL BE DEVOURED
Psalm 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on th ebreadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indigination, which shall devour the adversaries

THE WICKED SHALL BE CUT OFF FROM THE EARTH

Psalms 37:2,9,22,28,34,38 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb...For evildoers shall be cut off, but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth...For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off...For the Lord loveth judgment and forsaketh not his saints; the are preserved for ever. But the seed of the wicked shall be cut off...Wait on the Lord and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it...But the transgressors shall be destroyed together; the end of the wicked shall be cut off
Isaiah 33:12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime. As thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire
Proverbs 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it

THE WICKED WILL GO INTO PERDITION AND UTTER RUIN
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and periditon of ungodly men

THE WICKED ARE COMPARED TO COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS TO BE BURNED
Matthew 3:12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaffwith unquenchable fire.
Nahum 1:9-10 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
Matthew 13:40. "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
John 15:6. "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

THE WICKED SHALL DIE
Ezekiel 18:4-9, 20 [4], Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
John 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
Proverbs 15:10 Correction is grievous to him that forsakes the way: and he that hates reproof shall die.
Proverbs 19:16 He that keeps the commandment keeps his own soul; but he that despises his ways shall die.
Ezekiel 3:18-20 When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand. Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. Again, When a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand.
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he has done shall he die.
Ezekiel 18:28 Because he considers, and turns away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby you have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Ezeliel 33:8-9 When I say to the wicked, O wicked man, you shall surely die; if you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand. Nevertheless, if you warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
Ezekiel 33:11, 13, 14, 15, 18 Say to them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?

THE WICKED SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous that is, an idolater, has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death

.................

There is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked at the second coming as the scriptures teach us in Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Universalism is a man-made teaching that makes a mockery of the cross and Gods' justice and judgement for sin and is a false teaching designed to lead all those who follow it away from God and His Word.

What are your thoughts (friendly discussion please).

God bless :wave:

By the measure with which ye judge, so will ye be judged.

Congrats, you've just condemned yourself.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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By the measure with which ye judge, so will ye be judged. Congrats, you've just condemned yourself.
Dear friend, only God's Word has been shared in this OP. It is God's Word not my words. I do not judge you. What you believe or do not believe is between you and God. It is God's Word however that we accept of reject that will be our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures *John 12:47-48. If you feel condemned by the Word of God that is between you and God not me and you. According to the scriptures it is the Spirit of God the convicts the world of sin and righteousness and of the judgment to come *John 16:7-11.
 
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LoveGodsWord said: According to the scriptures sin separates us from God so that he will not hear us in Isaiah 59:9 and if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin God will not hear us (Proverbs 28:9; 13). Also, there is the question of who we seek to know Gods' truth from. Do we seek it from the teachings of men or do we ask God and seek to know the truth of God through His Word by the promise of His Spirit (see John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). The only test to know if someone knows God or does not know is found in 1 John 2:3-4 and the scriptures teach he who God sends speaks the Word of God for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him and he that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:34; 36. Universalism is a message of peace and safety and the bible teaches "For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail on a woman with child; and they shall not escape" - 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Therefore the scriptures are something to pray about, believe and follow and not take lightly.
Your response here...
So tell me, when we have peace & safety in the Kingdom, will you expect sudden destruction? I think you have taken the idea out of context, and made a straw man out of UR. You seem to think I take the Scriptures lightly, but I don't. Anyway, I never thought UR was a message of peace and safety, as if everyone, saints and sinners alike, enter the pearly gates under a shower of rose petals. Hardly - most will need to be salted with Fire. No, wait, I think the Scriptures say everyone. Do you even understand Godfire?
Hello LS, the scripture quoted in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 are in context to what takes place before the second coming not after the second coming so is in context to the rest of the post you are responding to so I do not really understand what your saying here. What is it in the scriptures provided in the post you are responding to that you disagree with? Are you trying to claim that God tortures the wicked into repentance and believing and following him after the second coming? I do not know a God like that from reading my bible.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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@Shrewd Manager. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because indeed I am blind without Him but he opens my eyes though His Word so that I might see. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Now what is it in the scriptures provided in the OP that you do not believe dear friend?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It’s easily my least favourite of the ping pongs.
I was thinking it should be our favorite according to 1 Peter 3:15; 2 Timothy 3:16; Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11. Gods' Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path Psalms 119:105 but many love darkness rather than the light according to the scriptures *John 3:19-21. How can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow if we have no lamp?
 
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klutedavid

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Have you considered that eternal annihilation means that Death cannot be defeated? However, the Bible says it will be at some time in the future. I say this as an ex-Adventist - I studied my way into it and then studied my way back out again.
Liked what you said here.

"I say this as an ex-Adventist - I studied my way into it and then studied my way back out again."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why does that sound confusing?
Well for example you say you studied your way into it and studied your way out of it. That to me sounds confusing. How are the following scriptures not applicable in regards to those who depart the faith? (e.g. 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 6:4-8; James 1:8 etc). I mean how do you know you did not study your way out of the truth of Gods' Word?
 
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