Salvation vs : service.

[SabbathBlessings]

I regard God's Sabbath as part of an eternal Covenant Psalms 89:34 and this one commandment cannot be separated from the other nine. It came in a until of Ten, God personally wrote them on stone and asked us specifically to REMEMBER His Sabbath day and keep it holy. We do not have a God of confusion, so that would be confusing for our all-knowing Savior to write REMEMBER if He actually didn't care if we did or not. We are told keeping the Sabbath holy is a sign of God's people Ezekiel 20:20 and when we obey we are obeying God's authority and not mans. Matthew 15:9

You do not have to be an SDA to keep the 4th commandment and it is God's chosen day period. Which is why the the sacredness of the Sabbath day continues forever as promised by our Savior. Isaiah 66:23 The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing and a delight and it is. Isaiah 58:13,14

 

[Servus]

I see where you are coming from. I think the problem for me was @Sidon confused me with language I was not expecting, but if he is preaching what you say He is, I will take your word for it that I am misreading it. What I admire about you @MMXX is your laser focus on the centrality of the Cross in our salvation, and also I like you am an enthusiast of CS Lewis, and I also agree with you that the Way of the Cross is being de-emphasized, particularly in some of the liberal mainline churches which hesitate to even talk about the blood of our Lord for fear of causing offense, and also in many newer churches which seem more interested in “Lordship” than what our Lord actually did for us, and why it matters.

I'll admit his style can throw people off. But I'm already familiar with what he's teaching so I probably tend to see past it. You can get the same message by youtubing Zane Hodges, Hank Lindstrom, Bob Wilkin and others.

Dr. Lindstrom gives about the best example of Free Grace Theology in only 17 mins that I've come across.

I'm not a proponent of FGT, I just understand it. I like to think I'm explaining it, rather than "defending" it.

 

[The Liturgist]

Sidon is simply teaching Free Grace theology. The overall objection to FGT I've seen, is that it supposedly teaches that we are free to ignore commandments and obedience and engage in copious amounts of sinning.

I believe in God’s Free Grace, which enables us to have faith, because to believe otherwise would be to say that the Grace of God had no part in the formation of our faith or our salvation, which would be the heresy of Pelagianism.

Distressingly, a few years back some Episcopal priests in the Southeast called for an inquiry into the “contribution” Pelagius made to the Faith, with an obvious eye towards his rehabilitation, so the threat of meo-Pelagianism is very real. Particularly when you consider that it interfaces with Pride, which is also a pernicious and seductive sin. So there are people who want to believe they can save themselves, and many religions teach that, but the reintroduction of this falsehood into Christianity, which was previously suppressed in the fifth century by the efforts of St. John Cassian, St. Augustine, St. Celestine, and St. Cyril of Alexandria, is extremely dangerous, because these wolves in sheeps’ clothing preaching neo-Pelagianism which appeals to the rampant pride and sheer arrogance of our contemporary society are extremely dangerous, because of the deadly appeal of this heresy.

 

[Servus]

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[The Liturgist]

I'll admit his style can throw people off. But I'm already familiar with what he's teaching so I probably tend to see past it. You can get the same message by youtubing Zane Hodges, Hank Lindstrom, Bob Wilkin and others.

Indeed, and you can also get it from the Bible and the Early Church Fathers, as well as newer persons such as the Eastern Orthodox Saint John of Kronstadt, the Methodist founder John Wesley, and CS Lewis, to name just a few. Because the idea of free grace is pervasive in all forms of Christianity, even in Calvinism (with the unfortunate caveat that it is reserved for the Elect).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Satan

Hes the "father of lies".
So, he blinds minds, and teaches lies.
These lies are always partial truth.
This is why all Legalists, will say...>"Yes, Jesus is the Savior, but........but.....now here is my part "..

See that?

That is not all lies, its only 50%, so that is the Devil's technique.
He mixes in some truth with some lies.
This is why his people preach a hybrid faith.
Part Cross, Part self effort.
Part Cross, Part commandment keeping.
And the self effort part......DENIES the Cross.
That is the problem, as that is cursed of God theology.
Galatians 1:8

A person who is born again must refrain from sin. He can’t just go on the living the same sinful lifestyle he lived before he came to Christ. A person can’t continue to get drunk all the time and cursing and swearing or worshipping whatever god he worshipped before he came to Christ. He has to make a change in his way of life otherwise he will not be saved.

 

[setst777]

I’m anchored on the grace of God in Christ, his labors over me were not in vain…as they would have been if I fell for the lie of works and stumbled over the stumbling Stone just as those did long before us. They pursued it "as if by works", so they failed.

I do not deny your testimony, and thanks for sharing. And I fully agree that we are not saved by works. Nothing we can do can earn our salvation, which God purchased for us through Christ Jesus.

However would you agree that God saves those who believe onto good works that God prepared that we should walk in them?

Ephesians 2:10 (ESV) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Acts 26:19-20 (ESV)
19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Romans 1:5 (NIV) 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Romans 16:25-26 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith

God did not save us to live unsanctified, immoral lives, and think we are still saved. Would you agree?

Romans 6:20-22 (ESV)
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

 

[Sidon]

If you'll not allow the system to put a :QUOTE: at the end of your next post, then it will show up as your post, instead of being hidden under mine.
This is a annoying system bug that the admin needs to resolve on this forum.

 

[Sidon]

A person who is born again must refrain from sin. He can’t just go on the living the same sinful lifestyle he lived before he came to Christ.

Here is how we are to do it.

We are to become born again.
We are to get a NT, and a teacher. If there is a good bible believing church nearby, then that'll work.
If not, avoid it, and find yourself some believers who are Paul's disciples, and enjoy the fellowship.
Keep in mind that Titus and Timothy and many more, were disciples of Paul.
This does not elevate him to "savior status", it just shows that you have read a NT and are doing what you are told to do.
So , find them, and find a brand new world of real christianity, vs, man man, spiritually dumbed down, Let me build a big building to celebrate me.....this type of nonsense that "plays church".

So, after you are in the word for a while, you'l want to grow.
And to do that, you have to leave something that is preventing you from gaining more from God.

Its this...

Paul teaches..

""""
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto PERFECTION; not laying again the foundation of = repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.."""


See that verse?
Let me paraphrase...."leaving the baby christian stage of "confessing sins". (repentance from dead works), and of trying to understand why you can't lose your salvation">..

GROW UP out of that...

 

[Sidon]

What is “legalistic” about the doctrine of OSAS?

OSAS, is not a doctrine.
Its a devil designed rebranding of the Grace of God, as "license".
Its the teaching that makes you think that God's Grace, when taught correctly, is "license".
Many are deceived by this false concept.

 

[apollosdtr]

I do not deny your testimony, and thanks for sharing. And I fully agree that we are not saved by works. Nothing we can do can earn our salvation, which God purchased for us through Christ Jesus.

However would you agree that God saves those who believe onto good works that God prepared that we should walk in them?

Ephesians 2:10 (ESV) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Acts 26:19-20 (ESV)
19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Romans 1:5 (NIV) 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Romans 16:25-26 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith

God did not save us to live unsanctified, immoral lives, and think we are still saved. Would you agree?

Romans 6:20-22 (ESV)
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

Have you read this thread, yet? If so, does it work with what you believe?

There is no predestination unto salvation in the Bible

Predestination to Salvation is NOT in the Bible!

 

[apollosdtr]

You mean to tell me that, when you log onto christianforums and view the messages, you do not see any grey boxes with quotes in them that others are responding to?

I have used several computers for christianforums in the past, some of which were very primitive from the early 1990's. I never had trouble seeing the grey boxes with quotes. How is it you cannot see any grey boxes with quotes that people respond to?

It can't be a software issue, because the grey boxes are located within ChristianForums, not your computer.

Might easily be an old browser issue.

 

[apollosdtr]

If you'll not allow the system to put a :QUOTE: at the end of your next post, then it will show up as your post, instead of being hidden under mine.
This is a annoying system bug that the admin needs to resolve on this forum.

hmmm... good to know.

 

[Sidon]

It can't be a software issue, because the grey boxes are located within ChristianForums, not your computer.

Lets say that the forum has a "bug".
One i know of, is that you'll sometimes finish and POST, and your post get's dropped below the post you are responding to....It gets hidden.
This happens because this page, or this site, or this software that operates it, puts a "Q=UO=TE", at the end of your post, that you didnt put there, and this causes your post to show up, hidden.


So, i'll tell you what.
Lets not burn more time talking about "he said i said".

More questions to answer.
Let me do that, instead.

 

[apollosdtr]

When did anyone ask you if the Pelasgians mattered?
Why do you need to talk about this, as its not related to my Thread, and no one is talking to you about the "pelagians".
What will you talk about next? Maybe Leonidas and the Spartans?
Cleopatra?
Paganism, as currently related to Denmark and the Netherlands ?
Wheat fields in Iceland?

Ligurian, Try to realize you are on a Thread that is discussing "Salvation :vs Service".

If you're going to enclose what other people say in quotation marks, you should try to get the spelling right.

Salvation has everything to do with who's who, according to Revelation 7:4-8. If it didn't Jesus would never have said Revelation 2:9. Nor would Jesus have called the Pharisees the murderers of Abel in Matthew 23:29-35. It's prophecy which cannot be false having come from the Son of God. This is all linked together... running from the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in shown in Matthew 10:25, carried out in Matthew 12:24, and ends up in Revelation 17:3. It matters very much whom Jesus was referring to in Revelation 3:9... since these are the end times of Matthew 24:11.

 

[Sidon]

I disagree with many of your views, but this I agree with entirely, and I also agree with @MMXX in agreeing with you on it.

Thousands of denominations prove that Theology, and not the Bible, is the problem.

There was a time when there were 2 Popes saying that the other one was the "anti-Christ".
There was a time, before the term "Catholic" became the title, that this same was titled the "cult of Mary" by the early church Fathers.
There was a time when Valentinus, who is the "father of Gnosticism", almost became a Pope.

There was a time when John Calvin had Michael Servetus burned alive, because this man was not fully convinced of the "deity of Christ".

Catholics believe that their denomination is the "one true church".

Most Protestants believe that all Catholics are "Roman".

Pentecostals, hate Baptists.

Baptist's think Charismatics are insane.

This list is as long as i can stay awake for the next 2 days to write it.


How to solve this?

Paul said. "Be a follower of Me, as i follow Christ"..... and then you get your church doctrine straight, as THAT is the actual issue between all Denominations.

 

[apollosdtr]

Our sanctification is Christ Himself becoming our Justification, Sanctification, etc.

1 Corinthians 1:30

So, you are confusing what we have become, "in Christ" with discipleship.

Two different gospels.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

 

[Sidon]

That is my point, and I feel like @Sidon is ignoring it, and is also in error in saying “I only teach Paul” rather than trying to teach the entirety of divine revelation, .

The divine revelation is not you trying to be like God, but rather it's God coming down here to bring you back to Himself, using The Cross.

Where many find error, isn't with the Cross, but its that their faith gets changed from "God saved me" into ...>"here is what im doing to stay saved".
See that LIST?

1, Commandments
2. Keeping the Law
3. Being Good, trying to live Holy
4. Loving everyone
5. Deeds, deeds, and more deeds. (see 1-4) for their Legalism.

The faith that we have when we understand that we are LOST< and Christ is the WAY out...the way back....The "GATE" to God's mercy................becomes smothered by "self righteousness".

This is the constant attempt of the flesh and the natural mind, to try to SEE salvation as "God started it, but now here is my part.....LOOK AT ME GO".

This is why we have to renew our minds.... As the devil and our flesh is a constant attempt to draw us away from Faith in Christ to Faith in Self.

Faith in self is Legalism
Faith in Christ ALONE is Salvation.

 

[apollosdtr]

Paul said. "Be a follower of Me, as i follow Christ"..... and then you get your church doctrine straight, as THAT is the actual issue between all Denominations.

Two different gospels.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of My hand.

 

[Sidon]

what our Lord actually did for us, and why it matters.

See what you just said?

"what our Lord did FOR US, and why it matters"..

Let me paraphrase you..

"its what Jesus did for us, IS OUR SALVATION< and that is all that matters".

This is the "preaching of the Cross'"

= Pauline Theology.

Romans 3:21-28.

The "blood Atonement".

The "simplicity that is IN Christ".

Its all the same thing, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross". = Its THIS WORK, and not ours, that God accepts to accept us.
This is the "gift of Salvation", and the "Gift of Righteousness".

"Pauline Theology".