IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

[Brian Mcnamee]

That's just some more derogatory attempts to defamation, even skirting around the actual Scriptures I've shown as evidence for what I proclaim. And it's real funny to watch these puffed-up types who want you to think they know what God's Word says, when they really don't know. If they did know, they'd be able to address the actual Scripture evidence that I post, instead to skirting those to flee them.

LOL I think I posted a lot more scriptures than you that demonstrate contradictions in your view to which you have not answered. You restate your position and assume that sweeps the contradictions away. You have done exactly what you accuse me of doing.

The LORD made a covenant with Abraham that was unconditional and one section of the covenant was in his seed (Jesus) all the world would be blessed. The other aspect is that Abraham would father a great nation that would inherit the land described to him as an everlasting possession. Now when Moses was raised up to deliver them out of Egypt a conditional covenant was put in place that made blessings cursing according to obedience or not. Now the LORD is enforcing both covenants and indeed has some work to do to fulfill the unconditional promise to Abraham.

This is why Luke 1 was my foundation as Jesus is to take the throne of David and to deliver Israel from their enemies and to a time where they worship and serve without fear and now in holiness all the days of their lives. Now this passage affirms the promises, oaths, covenants and prophecy will be fulfilled by Jesus. You mentioned the parables of the vineyard being given to others and indeed that judgment has occurred. Now here is where scriptures that declare things like in Rev 12,000 sealed from 12 tribes can be problematic for you. The 2nd coming in Zech 14 showed the Mt of Olives splitting and a new river flowing east is created on the day the LORD is king over all the earth. Now this river is said to heal the dead sea and it becomes a prosperous fishing are and then the 12 tribes are given their inheritance by lot in the known borders of Israel. You see blindness has come to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in. Jerusalem will be trampled under foot until the time of the Gentiles is over and in Rev we see the temple measured and the outer court left out for it has been given to the Gentiles and then Jerusalem in trampled under foot for 42 months.

Now the 42 months comes up over and over again and it is the middle of the tribulation where the man of sin is revealed and from that day it is 42 months until the 2nd coming. When you take all the passages that give a before and after picture the evidence is overwhelming that both are true spiritual Israel and kingdom and a physical kingdom and national Israel saved. When did Gog Magog invasion occur? When did the day of Jacob's trouble occur and when was Jerusalem rebuilt when dead bodies fill the valley and from then on it to be Holy and never thrown down again?

You see the law made provision for when Israel was scattered into all the nations for their return. In Jer days 70 years were deemed sufficient and Daniel did indeed pray according to the law confessing the sin of the people and the LORD brought them back. In Eze God notes that they will come to the mountains of Israel long desolate and that He will return them for His own names sake and it is important to note that the almost 1900 years in exile that Israel never confessed the sin to trigger the LORDs clause to bring them back. Now the LORD notes he will be hallowed in them and will remove the reproach of nations from them and give them the new heart just like the one promised in Jer 31.


Eze 38
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.” ’
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord GOD.”

This is glorious before and after picture. This same story is like the synoptic gospels all with a before and after that fit the precept of Luke 1 and make the literal sense true.

 

[Clare73]

Carefully study Romans 9, including the reference in Hosea (the whole narrative).

Nowhere in Romans 9 nor in the whole narrative of Hosea 1-2 is "nations" used for "Israel."

Galilee of the Gentiles could read Galilee of the nations, the nations being Israel. Therefore Gentiles = nations = Israel.
Also consider Matthew 4. Here Jesus refers to the territory of Zebulun and
Naphtali as if they were still occupied by those tribes even though they had been removed 700 years earlier.
12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

Thanks.

Would Galilee have been named that because for about 400 years after Israel entered Canaan, up until Solomon brought all the promised land under his rule, the territory of Galilee was occupied by Gentiles, the Cananites/Ammorites?. . .that being the meaning of "Gentiles" in its name, Galilee of the Gentiles?
I'm thinking because "Galilee of the Gentiles" had been its name in Israel for 400 years, that was it's name in Israel, which Isaiah used in his prophecy.
I don't think the name has anything to do with "nations" meaning "Israel," and has everything to do with the Gentiles who had occuppied Galilee for the first 400 years that the Israelites were in Canaan.

16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Note that the Gentiles of Galilee were the descendants of Zebulun and Naphtali, the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" that Jesus "was sent only to".

I still haven't seen a satisfactory verse where "nations" would reasonably mean "Israel."

 

[Davy]

This age is coming towards its end and there will be another one after. The next age will be different.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Yep! Can't say how many blinded Jews will believe on Jesus Christ at His coming, but I do know God has not forgotten His promises to them, like Paul showed in the Romans 11:29 verse.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nowhere in Romans 9 nor in the whole narrative of Hosea 1-2 is "nations" used for "Israel."
Thanks.

Would Galilee have been named that because for about 400 years after Israel entered Canaan, up until Solomon brought all the promised land under his rule, the territory of Galilee was occupied by Gentiles, the Cananites/Ammorites?. . .that being the meaning of "Gentiles" in its name, Galilee of the Gentiles?
I'm thinking because "Galilee of the Gentiles" had been its name in Israel for 400 years, that was it's name in Israel, which Isaiah used in his prophecy.
I don't think the name has anything to do with "nations" meaning "Israel," and has everything to do with the Gentiles who had occuppied Galilee for the first 400 years that the Israelites were in Canaan.

I still haven't seen a satisfactory verse where "nations" would reasonably mean "Israel."

The point is that the people being referred to in 'Galilee of the Gentiles' were Israelites, else why would Jesus begin his ministry there?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The question is what was the role of the 'lost tribes' in the formation of the early church, and beyond?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Only after they had gone to the lost sheep.

Matthew 10:5-6
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

No one said otherwise. So what has this got to do with the conversation with @Guojing I was having who thinks we are not in the new covenant now?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No one said otherwise. So what has this got to do with the conversation with @Guojing I was having who thinks we are not in the new covenant now?

Sorry about that.

 

[Clare73]

The point is that the people being referred to in 'Galilee of the Gentiles' were Israelites, else why would Jesus begin his ministry there?

My point is the name itself is based on Gentile nations actually having been there, the name is not related in any way to Israel, or Israelite nations, or anyone else living there under Solomon, it is related only to the Gentile nations, the Canaanites/Ammorites who lived there since it was named 400 years earlier.
"Nations" in the name "Galilee of the Nations" is about Gentiles, not about "Israel."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sorry about that.

That is ok, I am enjoying reading everyone's posts here especially yours

 

[Guojing]

No one said otherwise. So what has this got to do with the conversation with @Guojing I was having who thinks we are not in the new covenant now?

Let me give you an example from the Old Covenant.

When Moses declared in Exodus 24 that the Old Covenant of the Law has begun

8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

If I was a gentile living during the OT times but after that event, if I chance upon the scroll of Exodus 24, can I say to myself, "I am also included in the you as stated in verse 8, therefore this Old Covenant also include me?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My point is the name itself is based on Gentile nations actually having been there, the name is not related in any way to Israel, or Israelite nations, or anyone else living there under Solomon, it is related only to the Gentile nations, the Canaanies/Ammorites who lived there since it was named 400 year earlier.
"Nations" in the name "Galilee of the Nations" is about Gentiles, not about "Israel."

I'll concede that point.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Let me give you an example from the Old Covenant.

When Moses declared in Exodus 24 that the Old Covenant of the Law has begun

8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

If I was a gentile living during the OT times but after that event, if I chance upon the scroll of Exodus 24, can I say to myself, "I am also included in the you as stated in verse 8, therefore this Old Covenant also include me?

Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 would be good reading for you. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. What do you think the scripture means "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

...........

see also -

Hebrew 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,7 and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

The new covenant is now not in the future.

 

[Guojing]

Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 would be good reading for you. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. What do you think the scripture means "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

...........

see also -

Hebrew 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,7 and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

The new covenant is now not in the future.

Do you want to answer that question I posed regarding Exodus 24 and gentiles first?

that answer that you give will link to everything you are saying here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you want to answer that question I posed regarding Exodus 24 and gentiles first?

that answer that you give will link to everything you are saying here.

I did please read the post you are quoting from we are in the new covenant now not the old. (see Hebrews 7 to Hebrews 13). You did not read the post you were quoting from did you.

 

[Guojing]

I did please read the post you are quoting from we are in the new covenant now not the old. (see Hebrews 7 to Hebrews 13). You did not read the post you were quoting from did you.

So you don't want to answer the question is it?

Alright then, I can see you don't want to address that because you can guess where the discussion will lead to.

Hint: Hebrews is synonymous with Israelite Jews.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So you don't want to answer the question is it?

Alright then, I can see you don't want to address that because you can guess where the discussion will lead to.

Hint: Hebrews is synonymous with Israelite Jews.

As posted earlier the earlier post you were quoting from already answers your question from Hebrews. What was it from those scriptures you did not believe?

Hint: All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

 

[Guojing]

As posted earlier the earlier post you were quoting from already answers your question from Hebrews. What was it from those scriptures you did not believe?

Hint: All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

I am asking you about a gentile living while the Old Covenant was in force for Israel, before Christ came.

Can he include himself in the Old Covenant? Simple question.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am asking you about a gentile living while the Old Covenant was in force for Israel, before Christ came. Can he include himself in the Old Covenant? Simple question.

And I was showing you from the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old so your question is not relevant. The scriptures provided earlier show that Jesus lived under the old covenant and his death brought in the new covenant. Simply enough. Why do you not see it?

 

[Guojing]

Ans I was showing you from the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old so your question is not relevant. The scriptures provided earlier show that Jesus lived under the old covenant and his death brought in the new covenant. Simply enough. Why do you not see it?

Alright then, you don't want to see what my point is, with that question.

We can move on then.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Alright then, you don't want to see what my point is, with that question.

We can move on then.

What is your point? You did not make one, because your premise that we are not in the new covenant now is not biblical.