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Featured IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please. Here are the linked posts in this thread that show God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT is all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - the Church.

    1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
    2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
    3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
    4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

    God bless
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    GOD'S WORD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT TEACHES ISRAEL IS THE NAME GIVEN BY GOD TO ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD. (Part 1)

    ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE TWELVE TRIBES.

    The promise of God to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

    GENESIS 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

    Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

    GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

    God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob

    GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

    God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

    GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

    The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

    ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

    God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

    JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    144, 000 just prior to the 2nd coming come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    Yeps, seems like God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the OLD AND NEW Testament scriptures and the END OF TIME events John is describing in REVELATION 7. The word ISRAEL is a name that God gives to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    To be continued in the NEW Testament
     
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  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    MEANING OF THE NAME ISRAEL THAT WAS GIVEN BY GOD TO HIS PEOPLE (Part 2)

    God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

    Now let's look at the meaning of the name that God gave to his people. The name "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" God gave this name to his people and it means that they shall rule with God. Take a look at the following scriptures from REVELATION speaking of God's people.

    REVELATION 1:5-6
    [5], And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6], And HAS MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    and again...

    REVELATION 5:10 And HAVE MADE US TO OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS; AND WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH.

    Peter speaking of God's people says it this way...

    1 PETER 2:9-10
    [9], But you [God's people] are a chosen generation, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD [KINGS AND PRIESTS], an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; [10], Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Sound familar? "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" WHY?

    JESUS is our great HIGH PRIEST ministering on our behalf in the HEVENLY SANCTUARY *HEBREWS 4:14. JESUS is the KING of KINGS *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16

    HE WILL RULE WITH GOD WHICH IS THE MEANING OF "ISRAEL" is the name given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD because JESUS will make them to rule with him as PRIESTS and KINGS.

    Notice also in REVELATION 7:3-8 just before the judgements of God are poured out on the world God's people are sealed with God's Spirit and 144,000 come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANESSAH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEONwere sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.

    To be co continued...
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    GOD'S WORD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT TEACHES ISRAEL IS THE NAME GIVEN BY GOD TO ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD - THE CHURCH!. (Part 3)

    GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church)

    There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

    EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

    GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

    God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

    ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

    God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

    COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

    ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

    The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

    EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

    and again...

    JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Paul proclaims it here...

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

    ............

    CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

    more to come soon...
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
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  5. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    God gave two promises, or covenants. The birthright promise of material wealth and power to the physical descendants of Israel, and the scepter promise of salvation through Christ to all believers. The one doesn't abrogate the other. Both have been kept.
     
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  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi brother OWG, nice to see you and thanks for your comments. What is your view on the OP? Do you believe God's IRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (the Church)?
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Something to consider.

    “Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God’s people! Being descendants of Abraham doesn’t make them truly Abraham’s children. For the Scriptures say, “Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted,” though Abraham had other children, too. This means that Abraham’s physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham’s children. For God had promised, “I will return about this time next year, and Sarah will have a son.””
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-9‬
     
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  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well said brother, I beleive what you have posted represents the scriptures in the OP from God's WORD. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    God bless
     
  9. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    I do.
     
  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Those 'children of the promise' are the descendants of Isaac. It is noteworthy as well to track who actually received the promises and why.
     
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I think this is also important brother and thanks for sharing. I believe this is addressed however in the 2nd post of this OP. Did you have a chance to read it? What are your thoughts?
     
  12. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Re: IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH
    I've never understood why this is an "issue." How does Romans 9 fail to answer the question?

    It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. (Romans 9:6-8, 1984 NIV) [i.e., those with the faith of Abraham—Romans 4:16]

    What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith [πίστεως pisteos]; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith [πίστεως pisteos]but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.” As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts [πιστεύων pisteuon] in him will never be put to shame.” (my notes in brackets, Romans 9:30-33, 1984 NIV)
     
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  13. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Thanks but I really can’t take the credit. It was the Holy Spirit who wrote it not me. Lol ;)
     
  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Your theme of the birthright promise was lost as you morphed into the scepter promise, as if those promises just disappeared. It's no different from the head scratching that occurs when considering the fate of the Jews (especially the Holocaust) when the prophetic curses against them are ignored.
     
  15. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    But who but the Jews (the only 'Israel' at the time) stumbled over the advent of Christ? Paul was talking about the Jews, not the rest of Israel.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Greg nice to meet you brother. Yes thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is very clear I believe from God's WORD who God's ISRAEL are in the NEW COVENANT. I think some disagree with this because it goes against some of their other doctrinal teachings. We may look at some of these a little latter if we have some time. Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother.

    God bless.
     
  17. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The passages I cited explain the way it is for all people for all of time. It explains how people were saved before and after Christ. It had and still has nothing to do with who a person is descended from.

    I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. (John 8:37, 1984 NIV)
     
  18. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    Only 144,000 eventually...
     
  19. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Only the Jews sought to kill Jesus.

    Jesus abandoned his ministry to the Jews and went to where he was sent only; to the (spiritually) lost sheep of the house (the other physical descendants) of Israel"?

    In that sense attempting to minister to the Jews was a 'courtesy', knowing that he would be rejected by them.
     
  20. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A profound error that disregards many direct verses and indirectly "half" of Scripture in an attempt to explain a verse. No verse can be understood outside of the whole context of Scripture, which is all a revelation of God's nature.
     
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