IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

[RickReads]

Glad to encounter another here who don't believe that the New Covenant has already begun.

That`s a grey area.

 

[Guojing]

That`s a grey area.

Oh I see, when you stated, "The New Covenant will be applied to them at the appointed time",

you simultaneously believe it is already applied to us in the Body of Christ?

 

[RickReads]

Oh I see, when you stated, "The New Covenant will be applied to them at the appointed time",

you simultaneously believe it is already applied to us in the Body of Christ?

I believe we have received an earnest payment on the New Covenant but Jesus must return for it to be fully enforced. It`s hard to talk about because most Christians get bent out of shape if you suggest they don`t already have all the provisions of the document.

 

[Guojing]

I believe we have received an earnest payment on the New Covenant but Jesus must return for it to be fully enforced. It`s hard to talk about because most Christians get bent out of shape if you suggest they don`t already have all the provisions of the document.

I see. I believed we have received salvation from our sins NOW, but not thru the New Covenant, but by being in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7).

Under the New Covenant, Israel will only receive forgiveness of sins in the future (Hebrews 8:12).

So in that aspect, we are in agreement.

And I agree with you about how many Christians get so upset when you tell them they are neither the House of Israel nor the House of Judah that the New Covenant was promised to in Hebrews 8:8.

 

[RickReads]

Below is some scripture on the issue. We are purchased but until the first resurrection, we are not fully redeemed per, verse 14. The dispensation of the fulness of times is the time of the New Covenant.

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[RickReads]

I see. I believed we have received salvation from our sins NOW, but not thru the New Covenant, but by being in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7).

Under the New Covenant, Israel will only receive forgiveness of sins in the future (Hebrews 8:12).

So in that aspect, we are in agreement.

And I agree with you about how many Christians get so upset when you tell them they are neither the House of Israel nor the House of Judah that the New Covenant was promised to in Hebrews 8:8.

Per the adoption, we are in the new covenant. So I disagree here.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[Guojing]

Per the adoption, we are in the new covenant. So I disagree here.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

I see, so you don't regard the Body of Christ as separate from Israel.

Alright then, thanks for clarifying.

Revelation 20:6 is not referring to the Body of Christ. All of Israel are supposed to be priests during the millennial reign, to bring all unsaved gentiles into Christ, as described in Zechariah 8:23.

That is the reason why all of them need to be water baptized under the gospel of the kingdom, as stated in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38, while we have no need to.

 

[RickReads]

I see, so you don't regard the Body of Christ as separate from Israel.

Alright then, thanks for clarifying.

Revelation 20:6 is not referring to the Body of Christ. All of Israel are supposed to be priests during the millennial reign, to bring all unsaved gentiles into Christ, as described in Zechariah 8:23.

That is the reason why all of them need to be water baptized under the gospel of the kingdom, as stated in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38, while we have no need to.

The criteria for this group as stated in the verse is being included in the first resurrection. So Gentile Christianity is included. This is one of the places where Dispensationalism falls off the cliff.

You just deviated from the scripture.

 

[Guojing]

The criteria for this group as stated in the verse is being included in the first resurrection. So Gentile Christianity is included. This is one of the places where Dispensationalism falls off the cliff.

You just deviated from the scripture.

John was not revealed the mystery of the Body of Christ. We are not found in the book of Revelation.

But you are correct about gentiles coming into salvation thru Israel during the millennial reign, as I said in Zechariah 8:32.

So if that is what you meant by "Gentile Christianity", we may be in agreement here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That is a moot point. The New Covenant will be applied to them at the appointed time and there is a large amount of scripture affirming that.

Replacement theology always runs to the old covenant without realizing that Israel is to be saved according to the New Covenant not the old.

Sorry I respectfully disagree. Let's talk more when you wish to discuss the scriptures. See the scriptures provided in the OP on page one of this thread that disagree with you. The term "replacement theology" is simply a term and moot point used by those who deny the plain Word of God that shows that God's Israel in the new covenant are simply all those who have been born of the Spirit. God's Israel in the new covenant are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but those born of the promise through faith. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. All you have provided here are your words denying God's Word a shared here in the OP without showing why from the scriptures. Funny thing is however, I studied this OP in my own time asking God to be my guide and teacher according to the new covenant promises (Hebrews 8:10-12; John 14:26; John 16:13: John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 etc). Before I made this study I had never heard of the term "replacement theology" until after I presented this OP topic. I have never met a single person however that has been able to refute this OP with scripture. Your welcome to try however with scripture, if you do not think this OP and the scriptures provided is not biblical.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Let's talk more when you wish to discuss the scriptures. See the scriptures provided in the OP on page one of this thread. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. All you have provided here are your words denying God's Word. It is your point that is moot because you have not made one that is supported by the scriptures while denying the scriptures already provided in the OP on page one without proving why you disagree with them. So for this reason we will agree to disagree.

To be honest I have met very few people that believe we are not in the new covenant now or that the new covenant has not even started. For me that teaching denies the very Christ who paid to bring it in with His own blood and the very new testament (covenant) scriptures. This is a false teaching that is not biblical.

 

[RickReads]

John was not revealed the mystery of the Body of Christ. We are not found in the book of Revelation.

The use of a gimmick is often necessary for wrong doctrine.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Guojing]

To be honest I have met very few people that believe we are not in the new covenant now or that the new covenant has not even started. For me that teaching denies the very Christ who paid denied to bring it in with His own blood and the very new testament (covenant) scriptures. This is a false teaching that is not biblical.

It’s because people thought Jesus was joking when he uttered Matthew 15:24.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It’s because people thought Jesus was joking when he uttered Matthew 15:24.

I doubt it as Matthew 15:24 has nothing to do with what you are quoting from.

 

[Guojing]

I doubt it as Matthew 15:24 has nothing to do with what you are quoting from.

Do you believe Jesus meant what he said there?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you believe Jesus meant what he said there?

Of course I do. What has Matthew 15:24 have to do with what you were quoting from? - Nothing. Do you believe what Jesus says in Matthew 28:19?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Of course I do. What has Matthew 15:24 have to do with what you were quoting from? - Nothing. Do you believe what Jesus says in Matthew 28:19?

Only after they had gone to the lost sheep.

Matthew 10:5-6
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[Clare73]

Where do we find "nations" referring to Israel in Scripture, that I may examine it?

Carefully study Roman 9, including the reference to Hosea (the whole narrative).

Paul states, as does Peter, that the declaration of Hosea 1:9 and the promise of
Hosea 1:10, Hosea 2:23 to Israel are fulfilled in the Gentiles.(Romans 9:24-26; 1 Peter 2:10).

Where do you find "nations" being used for "Israel" there?

These verses refer to Israel, specifically the "house of Israel", the people of the northern kingdom.
?

Where do we find "nations" being used for "Israel" there?

Gentile = nations (or tribes) in this and many applications. For example the term "Greek" used in the day often meant the world in general apart from the Jews, thus "to the Jew first but also to the Greek" includes everyone who is not a Jew regardless of their actual nationality. Thus Greek was more a cultural identity than an ethnic identity, much the way Jew described all who were culturally and religiously "Jewish" regardless of their nationality.

?

Where do we find "nations" being used for "Israel" there?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

?

Where do we find "nations" being used for "Israel" there?

Carefully study Romans 9, including the reference in Hosea (the whole narrative).

Galilee of the Gentiles could read Galilee of the nations, the nations being Israel. Therefore Gentiles = nations = Israel.

Also consider Matthew 4. Here Jesus refers to the territory of Zebulun and
Naphtali as if they were still occupied by those tribes even though they had been removed 700 years earlier.

12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Note that the Gentiles of Galilee were the descendants of Zebulun and Naphtali, the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" that Jesus "was sent only to".