is Jesus and Michael the same person ?

[Han Solo 111]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

 

[Albion]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

No.

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

No.

That is a view associated with a certain religious organization of recent origin, but Scripture, the Church Councils of history, the Creeds, and both Catholics and Protestants teach that Jesus is/was God. Jesus himself acknowledged it as well during his time on Earth.

 

[zoidar]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

Isn't that the view of Jehovah's Witnesses? It will be hard to prove that from scripture.

So, like Albion said: No and no!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jude 1:9
Good News Translation

9 Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

The Lord is not Michael.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

No

 

[Andrewn]

Jesus is Yahweh. Archangel Michael is the Angel of Yahweh.

Compare:

Zec 3:1 Then he showed me the high priest Joshua standing before the angel of the Lord, with Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! May the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Isn’t this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

Jud 1:9 Yet when Michael the archangel was disputing with the devil in an argument about Moses’s body, he did not dare utter a slanderous condemnation against him but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Re Zec 3:2: This is how the text stands in both the MT and the LXX. But it is probably that the speaker is not Yahweh but rather the "angel of Yahweh" mentioned in v. 1.

 

[BobRyan]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

God the Son - sometimes is referred to as "Michael" when He is engaged in war/battle/conflict

In Gen 18:2 - God (YHWH) and 2 Angels are referred to as "three men walking"

 

[disciple Clint]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

NO Jesus is God not an angel.

 

[klutedavid]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

The identity of the man speaking to Daniel?

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

We know whom the man above is.

Revelation 1:13-15
I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.

The man identified in both texts above (Daniel 10, Revelation 1) is Jesus Christ.

So we turn to Daniel 10 to establish the identity of Michael.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

Jesus was the man speaking to Daniel and Jesus was held up by the prince of Persia. Michael, one of the chief princes came to help Jesus.

Michael was mere angel assisting the His Majesty, the Lord of heaven and earth.

 

[Andrewn]

God the Son - sometimes is referred to as "Michael" when He is engaged in war/battle/conflict

I would have agreed that Archangel Michael is Yahweh Sabaoth if it wasn't for the following verse:

Dan 10:13 However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia resisted me for 21 days, but behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me because I had been detained there with the kings of Persia.

There are also the verses I quoted in post #6, which show that Michael did not dare to rebuke satan.

I'll stick with the orthodox belief that Michael is one of the archangels, not God the Son.

 

[BobRyan]

I would have agreed that Archangel Michael is Yahweh Sabaoth if it wasn't for the following verse:

Dan 10:13 However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia resisted me for 21 days, but behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me because I had been detained there with the kings of Persia.

There are also the verses I quoted in post #6, which show that Michael did not dare to rebuke satan.

I think Matthew Henry got it right when he said that Michael is one of the names for God the Son - when He appears as "the Angel of the LORD" which a number of other scholars also agree is YHWH in certain cases.

Christ said "Satan has desired to sift you like wheat" when speaking to Peter and then He says "But I HAVE PRAYED that your faith fail not" instead of "I have COMMANDED that your faith fail not".

Christ's "NOT MY will but THY will" statements are cases where He is modeling the example of submitting to God the Father - for the benefit of the REST of us.

 

[Andrewn]

Christ said "Satan has desired to sift you like wheat" when speaking to Peter and then He says "But I HAVE PRAYED that your faith fail not" instead of "I have COMMANDED that your faith fail not".

Christ's "NOT MY will but THY will" statements are cases where He is modeling the example of submitting to God the Father - for the benefit of the REST of us.

Maybe, but it doesn't answer has Archangel Michael is "one of the chief princes" in Dan 10:13.

 

[zoidar]

.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

God the Son - sometimes is referred to as "Michael" when He is engaged in war/battle/conflict

In Gen 18:2 - God (YHWH) and 2 Angels are referred to as "three men walking"

and the 3 were neither of them YHWH in the Person of the WORD.
7th Day Adventists teach Michael is Jesus.
that is NOT sound biblical doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

and the 3 were neither of them YHWH in the Person of the WORD.
7th Day Adventists teach Michael is Jesus.

YHWH - is the highest form of the name of God Himself - nothing higher in the Bible.

As did Matthew Henry admit where he notes that that God the Son is called Michael at times in the Bible.

And as do a number of scholars when it comes to the "Angel of the LORD" being in fact YHWH Himself.

"We" don't actually have this as a "Church doctrine" but it comes up in our "everything relates to the work of Christ" subjects.

that is NOT sound biblical doctrine.

You are of course free to differ with all of those Bible scholars. This is not something unique about SDAs agreeing with them.

Gen 18
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.”

...
10 And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.”

(Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”

13 And the LORD (YHWH) said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.”

=============================

How do you make that?

As noted above a number of Bible scholars already admit that the phrase "Angel of the LORD" is at times a reference to God Himself and Matthew Henry specifically notes this when it comes to the name "Michael".

By contrast JW's do NOT claim that God the Son is called Michael - rather their claim is that Jesus used to be an Angel called Michael and would never make the statement "God the Son is at times called by the name Michael".

So in addition to those OT references there is also the fact that in the book of Hebrews it says that all Angels bow to and are in service to "The Son" while in Rev 12 "Michael and HIS ANGELS" are at war with "the devil and HIS angels" -

 

[klutedavid]

Is Jesus the same person as Archangel Michael mentioned in the Book of Revelation ?

Was Jesus just a temporary name that Archangel Michael used ?

Jude 9
But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!".

Matthew 4:10-11
Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'" Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

There is a difference in the authority between Michael and Jesus. Michael said, "The Lord rebuke you!". Where as Jesus tells the Devil to get lost. Jesus has authority over the Devil because Jesus created the Devil. Michael does not have that divine authority as Michael is not the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

Michael fights against the dragon in Revelation but the Lord of Heaven and Earth, is way above these disputes.

 

[Andrewn]

I think Matthew Henry got it right when he said that Michael is one of the names for God the Son - when He appears as "the Angel of the LORD" which a number of other scholars also agree is YHWH in certain cases.

It is true that a number of scholars consider the OT "Angel of Yahweh" to be Yahweh himself but I don't believe this. I do believe that Yahweh appeared several times in the OT and He is not referred to as "Angel of Yahweh." You quoted one of these instances in the following:

Gen 18
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.”

...
10 And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.”

(Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”

13 And the LORD (YHWH) said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.”

This is one of the appearances of the pre-incarnate Christ / Yahweh in the OT. He was accompanied by 2 angels but He was not referred to as "Archangel Michael" or "Angel of Yahweh."

And I will ask you for the 3rd time, why is the Archangel Michael referred to as "one of the chief princes" in Dan 10:13?

 

[BobRyan]

It is true that a number of scholars consider the OT "Angel of Yahweh" to be Yahweh himself but I don't believe this

Not a problem. you have free will and you don't have to go along with them on that Bible detail.

. I do believe that Yahweh appeared several times in the OT and He is not referred to as "Angel of Yahweh."

Indeed referring to the "Angel of the LORD" as being God Himself is not a problem nor a claim that "God is merely an Angel"

This is one of the appearances of the pre-incarnate Christ / Yahweh in the OT. He was accompanied by 2 angels

Indeed referring to God Himself as being one of 3 men -- is not a problem nor a claim that "God is merely an man" because including other texts related to YHWH shows that He is infinite God.

but He was not referred to as "Archangel Michael" or "Angel of Yahweh."

Michael "Who is like the LORD" - who has his own "angels" Rev 12 is just another name for God the Son as Matthew Henry also points out - but this is not my "doctrine" just something I note about it.

And I will ask you for the 3rd time, why is the Archangel Michael referred to as "one of the chief princes" in Dan 10:13?

Christ is "the WORD" from John 1 - that means His role even "from the beginning" was to convey the will and character of infinite God to finite beings. Angels are finite not infinite. The gap between finite and infinite is always "infinity" - a bridge is always needed.

Christ (God the Son) not only appeared as a man to Abraham to convey God to man... but he appeared as an Angel to Angels to convey God to Angels more intimately.

In the Bible Satan is the enemy of Christ - but how did he pick out God the Son to be at war with - why not "the Trinity?" - it is because he underestimated God the Son considering Him to be "more like himself" just as humans underestimated Christ the Son of God - thinking He was "more like themselves".

The difference is that God the Son was never incarnated as an angel - He only appeared in that form for the purposes of "conveying the will of God" by modeling it in finite form.

 

[Andrewn]

In the Bible Satan is the enemy of Christ - but how did he pick out God the Son to be at war with - why not "the Trinity?" - it is because he underestimated God the Son considering Him to be "more like himself" just as humans underestimated Christ the Son of God - thinking He was "more like themselves".

Did satan underestimated God the Son considering Him to be "more like himself"?

The following verses seem to indicate that satan recognized the power of God's Son:

Mar 5:6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down before him; 7 and he shouted at the top of his voice, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” 8 For he had said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

Luk 4:33 In the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, 34 “Let us alone! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God.”

Luk 4:41 Demons also came out of many, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Messiah.

 

[BobRyan]

Did satan underestimated God the Son considering Him to be "more like himself"?

Lucifer had to be pretty confused on that point - and he was one of the sharpest knives in the drawer at the time. (which would be before the creation of the world since Rev 12 says he was the "serpent of old").

Satan used the serpent in Eden to tempt Eve - after his rebellion in heaven.