JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[Leaf473]

According to the scriptures it is hard to find peace in seeking to silence our conscious if we once knew the word of God and choose to turn away from it as shown in Hebrews 6:4-8 which can be a difficult experience for many, all the time trying to suppress the still small voice of God's Word when we know the consequences of doing so are written in Hebrews 10:26-31. This is a position where there is no peace if we seek to justify our actions in turning away from Gods' Word in order to live a life of known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures. Isaiah 57:20-21 comes to mind as does Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12. Let's pray that everyone of us here in CF do not find ourselves in this situation. I pray for everyone here and include myself in these words as we are all to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith or not according to *2 Corinthians 13:5 and it is never too late to return to God's Word while we still have today.

I join you in that prayer!

I can't speak for others, but I'm here in an attempt to help people.

Jesus said it is good to help your son if he falls into a ditch.

In the same way, we want to help our Christian brothers and sisters when they have become trapped in a sect
(if that is indeed what has happened),
which is a work of the flesh.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I join you in that prayer!

I can't speak for others, but I'm here in an attempt to help people.

Jesus said it is good to help your son if he falls into a ditch.

In the same way, we want to help our Christian brothers and sisters when they have become trapped in a sect
(if that is indeed what has happened),
which is a work of the flesh.

John 3:19-21 comes to mind here [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God. I love these scriptures from Jesus as there is so much truth here and this is why I love God's Word (excuse the pun). We should not be afraid to come to God's Word because it is through Gods' Word that we can know if we are truly following Gods' Word or not following Gods' Word. It is a light to our path where the road is dark and narrow. Even if we can see through Gods' Word that we are not following Gods' Word we should take it as Gods' blessing to us if we truly love Jesus and wish to follow him. So Gods word is the light and lamp to our feet and a guide to those who love God and as Jesus says if we continue in His Word we will know the truth and the truth will set us free *John 8:31-36

God bless

 

[Leaf473]

"...but has crossed over from death to life."

Praise God!

 

[Leaf473]

TBH Leaf. I see a lot of opinions that is not backed up with scriptures. Your opinion contradicts so many scriptures and you didn't bother addressing any of them.

Simply posting the same scriptures over and over again doesn't further the discussion, imo.

I'll go into a little more detail about what I posted earlier from Galatians
Galatians 5:14 Interlinear: for all the law in one word is fulfilled -- in this: 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;'

The above isn't just a quote, it's a link where you can see the original language with some study helps.

Part of the page says
πεπλήρωται
is fulfilled
V-RIM/P-3S

Do you see that "R" above? That means it's the greek perfect tense.

Greek Verbs Help Tutorial
"Action that has been completed in the past yet has results occurring in the present are expressed by the perfect tense."

I think when someone is convinced in their mind what they want to believe no amount scripture is going to change that. For example, Isaiah 66:23 doesn't say anything about festivals,...

Strong's Hebrew: 2320. חֹ֫דֶשׁ (chodesh) -- new moon, a month

"1 new moon = day, time, of new moon, as religious festival 1 Samuel 20:5,18,24,27,34 (Dr); compare ׳יאֹכְלֵם ח Hosea 5:7 a new moon shall devour them, Hi St VB, but on text see We; usually "" שַׁבָּת Amos 8:5; 2 Kings 4:23; Isaiah 1:13 (+ קְרֹא מִקְרָא), מִדֵּי חֹדֶשׁ בְּחָדְשׁוֺ Isaiah 66:23..."

...you added that. A new moon is a month. So if you read the scripture in its proper context it says from month to month and week to week God's Sabbath, the day He said is an eternal covenant and is his holy day, we will continue (for those saved) to worship Him on His holy Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

I would like to pray that you will find Truth in God's Word and will come to the understanding true love and true belief comes with obeying some very simple commandments. Even in God's commandments He tells us a very important message.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

I am sorry you don't believe the Words left by our Savior . John 14:15, John 15:10 I will pray for you. God bless.

I do believe all the words of Jesus! You and I just have a different interpretation of them, I think.

I mean this next part is gently as possible, and absolutely without any put-down or bragging.

Are you willing to consider that maybe, just maybe, our differences in interpretation are because maybe I have done more research into the original languages?

 

[RBPerry]

Yes, it is religious tradition to belong to an organized religious franchise. I never partook of the SDA Franchise. By the time I knew they even existed, I had already escaped the religious franchise my family had adopted for generations.

It wasn't until I started studying on my own, that I was able to see the difference between what Jesus taught, and what the popular religious businesses of this world taught.

Interesting, One of the problems I have seen is big churches become big business, lot of money floating around some of them. Some of the big charismatic churches play the name it and claim it thinking a bit too much. One thing about it, once you get on the inner circle, you find out the leadership is just as human as anyone else.
Leaving family tradition can strain relationships especially when the family is dogmatic about their beliefs. One thing I have observed is the more legalistic denominations has major issues with someone challenging their theology, or lack of it. I guess that's why God gave us a brain and free will, to think for ourselves.

 

[RBPerry]

One thing I do know about most legalistic denominations, there convinced that they are the only club in town that has it right. It doesn't matter if they think a Ford is really a Dodge, doesn't matter how many Fords you show them with Ford nameplates attached to the car, to them it is a Dodge and many will not allow you to clutter their thinking with facts.
I had two JWs come to my home and knocked on the door. After about twenty minutes they told me they would like to come back after doing a little research, I told them they were welcome any time. Haven't seen them since.

 

[Leaf473]

The holy Spirit convicts us of sin John 16:7-11 and we know what sin is by breaking God's laws. 1 John 3:4

Again, I think we have different interpretations of those passages

The feeling you get when you know you should not be doing something is the holy Spirit trying to reach you.

Right, I agree that that is certainly part of it.

And I think this comes into play from Hebrews
"You have forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with children, "My son, don't take lightly the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by him; For whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as with children, for what son is there whom his father doesn't discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have been made partakers, then are you illegitimate, and not children. Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits, and live? For they indeed, for a few days, punished us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seems for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been exercised thereby."

I do not perceive any chastening from God about actions I take or don't take on Saturday.

Nor do I perceive the letters of the fourth commandment to be written in my heart.

With those things in mind, can you understand why I would question your interpretations of the scriptures?

Some grieve away the Spirit by continuing in sin and no longer can be reached. Only God knows when that time has come. Right now it's not to late for anyone, but you must be willing to repent, turn from sin, which means keeping God's commandments. Jesus even promises a Helper John 14:15-18. Weird Jesus would offer this if the whole law was shadows.

Once again, I think we have a different interpretation of that passage

 

[Leaf473]

Unless I missed something this section is called the Sabbath and the law, which is something I 1000% believe in.

If you mean the title of the thread, of course we all know that it is
JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Also, to correct your statement about God's laws, God said He wrote them in our hearts in the New Covenant and Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments.

Yes, Amen!

I believe your definition of "fulfilled" means a shadow law,...

No, that's not my definition.

...which means "not required" yes, I disagree with this definition because you would literally have to remove the majority of the bible to make this fit. Including one of the last verses in the Bible before those who do keep His commandments, entering into eternal life

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Why would it matter if all laws are shadows?

Well, my dear Sister, at this point I believe you are disputing something that I'm not saying.

God bless!

 

[Leaf473]

According to the scriptures on Romans 3:19-20 we are only "under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law.

I mean this very gently, but this is a common error.

The Greek phrase behind "under the law" in Romans 3 is different from the phrase used in Galatians and Corinthians.

If you agree that love is not separate from Gods' law and is expressed in obedience to Gods law as shown through the scriptures already here linked and here linked, then the rest is easy (Hebrews 4:1-9) which of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which is our duty of love to God.

I'm not ignoring this part of your post, but it seems like it would make sense to resolve the first part first.

 

[Leaf473]

John 3:19-21 comes to mind here [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God. I love these scriptures from Jesus as there is so much truth here and this is why I love God's Word (excuse the pun). We should not be afraid to come to God's Word because it is through Gods' Word that we can know if we are truly following Gods' Word or not following Gods' Word. It is a light to our path where the road is dark and narrow. Even if we can see through Gods' Word that we are not following Gods' Word we should take it as Gods' blessing to us if we truly love Jesus and wish to follow him. So Gods word is the light and lamp to our feet and a guide to those who love God and as Jesus says if we continue in His Word we will know the truth and the truth will set us free *John 8:31-36

God bless

I agree!

One thing that keeps nagging me, though, and I don't know if this is what you think or not... probably not...

If being led by the spirit in practice means following our understanding of the scriptures, then it is really no different than what the Israelites were called to do under the old covenant.

The scriptures were necessarily written in human language, which is necessarily limited. The spirit does not have that limit.

Obviously, we don't do things that are clearly against the scriptures, keeping in mind that it's what the scriptures say as a whole.

The Bible is a really big book, deceptively so, because it's almost always printed on super thin paper.

If a particular teaching requires that a passage be stretched or squished, I'm suspicious of it.

 

[Leaf473]

One thing I do know about most legalistic denominations, there convinced that they are the only club in town that has it right. It doesn't matter if they think a Ford is really a Dodge, doesn't matter how many Fords you show them with Ford nameplates attached to the car, to them it is a Dodge and many will not allow you to clutter their thinking with facts.
I had two JWs come to my home and knocked on the door. After about twenty minutes they told me they would like to come back after doing a little research, I told them they were welcome any time. Haven't seen them since.

I've done a lot of interactions with Jehovah's Witnesses.

"We'll research that and get back to you" means they can't answer your questions, and they won't come back.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I mean this very gently, but this is a common error.

The Greek phrase behind "under the law" in Romans 3 is different from the phrase used in Galatians and Corinthians.


I'm not ignoring this part of your post, but it seems like it would make sense to resolve the first part first.

There is nothing that needs resolving the context and subject matter to Romans 2:13-29 to Romans 3:1-19 is that we are all guilty of sin (breaking God's commandments) and none of us a righteous in God's eyes. Yes we are all sinners in needs of God's salvation and the scriptures saying in v19 Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. The context here shows we are all under the condemnation of the law because we have broken it therefore we all stand guilty before God. That is no one is justified by the law as all the law does is give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken as shown in the very next verse [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Context and meaning determine interpretation and application. Meaning is dependent on within scripture and chapter subject matter and application. The error us your side if you think "under the law" in Romans 3:19 is not in application to standing guilty before God of breaking the law as that is what the scripture says verbatim. Context shown below...

Romans 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

As posted earlier the context is to everyone being under the condemnation of the law standing guilty before God of sin which God's law gives us a knowledge of...

Romans 3:19 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The mistake here is your side.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I agree!

One thing that keeps nagging me, though, and I don't know if this is what you think or not... probably not...

If being led by the spirit in practice means following our understanding of the scriptures, then it is really no different than what the Israelites were called to do under the old covenant.

The scriptures were necessarily written in human language, which is necessarily limited. The spirit does not have that limit.

Obviously, we don't do things that are clearly against the scriptures, keeping in mind that it's what the scriptures say as a whole.

The Bible is a really big book, deceptively so, because it's almost always printed on super thin paper.

If a particular teaching requires that a passage be stretched or squished, I'm suspicious of it.

Not at all. Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God according to the scriptures *John 6:63 and as we believe Gods' Word it is the Spirit of God that works in all those who believe so that we can follow and walk in Gods' Word *Philippians 2:13; Galatians 5:16; John 8:31-36; John 17:17. This is the purpose of God's law it shows us that we are wholly dependent on God's Word for God's salvation and without Jesus we are as Paul says the chiefest of sinners. What do you think Matthew 9:12-13 and 2 Corinthians 12:10 mean? As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, no one loves God by breaking his commandments when Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments in John 14:15 and he that keeps Gods commandments is he who loves God in John 15:10 and on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. If you agree that love is not separate from Gods' law and is expressed in obedience to Gods law as shown through the scriptures already here linked and here linked, then as posted earlier, the rest is easy (Hebrews 4:1-9) which of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which is our duty of love to God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Simply posting the same scriptures over and over again doesn't further the discussion, imo.

I'll go into a little more detail about what I posted earlier from Galatians
Galatians 5:14 Interlinear: for all the law in one word is fulfilled -- in this: 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;'

The above isn't just a quote, it's a link where you can see the original language with some study helps.

Part of the page says
πεπλήρωται
is fulfilled
V-RIM/P-3S

Do you see that "R" above? That means it's the greek perfect tense.

Greek Verbs Help Tutorial
"Action that has been completed in the past yet has results occurring in the present are expressed by the perfect tense."


Strong's Hebrew: 2320. חֹ֫דֶשׁ (chodesh) -- new moon, a month

"1 new moon = day, time, of new moon, as religious festival 1 Samuel 20:5,18,24,27,34 (Dr); compare ׳יאֹכְלֵם ח Hosea 5:7 a new moon shall devour them, Hi St VB, but on text see We; usually "" שַׁבָּת Amos 8:5; 2 Kings 4:23; Isaiah 1:13 (+ קְרֹא מִקְרָא), מִדֵּי חֹדֶשׁ בְּחָדְשׁוֺ Isaiah 66:23..."


I do believe all the words of Jesus! You and I just have a different interpretation of them, I think.

I mean this next part is gently as possible, and absolutely without any put-down or bragging.

Are you willing to consider that maybe, just maybe, our differences in interpretation are because maybe I have done more research into the original languages?

Thanks for the message. I admit, I have not studied the original languages, but I would not put that as a reason for knowing and understanding scripture better one way or the other necessarily.

As I stated previously, you can't take one scripture and think it trumps all other scripture. All scripture needs to reconcile, sometimes what you are reading is true, but there is other scripture that builds on that scripture, so it may be true, but there is more to it. The Bible did not begin or end in Romans or Galatians and Paul is the most misquoted and misunderstood apostle.

From reading the one scripture you isolated Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The one word Paul is referring to is love. Does this verse trump what Jesus said?

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

What you are suggesting is what Paul is saying that we do not need to keep the commandments but all we have to do is Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;' And do we just ignore what Jesus said?

Maybe there is more to what Paul is saying and you have to read on to understand the context....

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Seems really similar to Revelation 22:14,15

Is Paul saying that the laws are shadows and we do not need to keep? Paul clearly is saying if we sin we will not inherit the kingdom of God. Also Paul has told us what really matters but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.1 Corinthians 7:19 Paul is clearly not saying the laws are "fulfilled= void" which seems to be your definition right now when you said all laws are shadow laws. In the recent past you agreed the Ten were required, but I see your stance has changed from a few weeks ago.

Love is the key word and while I know you don't like to repeat scripture but Jesus said if you love Me keep my commandments John 14:15 If you keep My commandments you will abide in My love John 15:10, Exodus 20:6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

So does your one scripture in Galatians trump all other scripture including direct quotes from Jesus or does is build on it? We do not show love to Jesus according to Jesus if we sin. Jesus is not going to keep us from sinning, He did not make robots, we have free will, we have to make the right decisions that come in our life daily. Jesus will give us a Helper, but it's still our actions that we will be accountable for. When we love Jesus we will not want to sin (keep God's laws) and be more like Him.

Hope this helps.

God bless

 

[Bob S]

If you really believe in Jesus you are going to obey. It's really that simple.

That is the truth. The question is obey what? Do we obey the 613 laws of the covenant given only to Israel. Where does scripture give us any indication that the words God spoke from His mouth are any more sacred than what He wrote with His finger? Please answer the question. Who gave you permission to just observe the ten and clean and unclean meat laws and the SDAs modified false tithing system? Not one jot can be removed from the 613 laws of the covenant given to Israel. please answer.

You can take many one line scriptures in the Bible and can believe that it wipes out the other plethora of scripture you seem to want to disregard.

I am sorry, but it is the SDAs that are masters of the one liners. I believe Adventists refer to them as "proof texts". When I use Jesus words like Jn15:9-14 where we all know that He kept the laws of the covenant given to Israel, Jesus's Father's laws to Israel, and then tells us what laws we are to keep, we know, since He differentiates between the two, that we are not under the laws He was under. That should be very clear to you and your brother yet you ignore what is so plain. I then back up Jn 15 with 1Jn 3:19-24 where John is telling us we belong to the TRUTH if we believe "this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

That was God on this Earth as a man telling us His new command to us. Israel failed keep the commands the Father gave them except Jesus. What makes you believe you are any better at keeping the old covenant's many laws then the Israelites did? Our duty is to keep the commands God on this Earth gave us.

The Bible is one fluid book and many verses build on others. There is no contradictions in the Bible only grave misunderstandings.

This is so true and there are people that are so adamant in their beliefs that they will not consider their misunderstandings. I, at one time, was just as adamant as you are today. I would not listen to anything other than what I was taught from SDAs. The first thing to remember is that God never ever in all of history given Gentile nations the covenant He gave to Israel. Question: when did that change? Where in all of scripture does it tell Gentiles they are under the obligation to keep any part of the ritual laws or civil laws of the Sinai covenant?

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I don't believe you have ever really explained which commandments of God we are to keep. Jesus did in Jn 15. You think Rev14:12 is referring to what? Oh I know, the ten commandments. Well, we are not to add our thinking to what the Word is telling us. The verse does not indicate that it is the ten commandments we are to keep. personally, I will go with Jesus words there in Jn15. I know that is true.

God’s saints both keep God’s commandments and has the faith in Jesus. So when you really believe in Jesus you believe Him when He says, if you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 , John 15:10

Thank you, you just proved my point.

 

[Leaf473]

There is nothing that needs resolving the context and subject matter to Romans 2:13-29 to Romans 3:1-19 is that we are all guilty of sin (breaking God's commandments) and none of us a righteous in God's eyes. Yes we are all sinners in needs of God's salvation and the scriptures saying in v19 Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. The context here shows we are all under the condemnation of the law because we have broken it therefore we all stand guilty before God. That is no one is justified by the law as all the law does is give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken as shown in the very next verse [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Context and meaning determine interpretation and application. Meaning is dependent on within scripture and chapter subject matter and application. The error us your side if you think "under the law" in Romans 3:19 is not in application to standing guilty before God of breaking the law as that is what the scripture says verbatim. Context shown below...

Romans 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

As posted earlier the context is to everyone being under the condemnation of the law standing guilty before God of sin which God's law gives us a knowledge of...

Romans 3:19 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The mistake here is your side.

Hope this is helpful.

If we are led by the spirit we are not under the law.

The phrase "under the law" as it appears in Galatians and Corinthians is a different set of Greek words then what is used in Romans 3:19?

Are we in agreement on the above things?

 

[Leaf473]

Not at all. Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God according to the scriptures *John 6:63 and as we believe Gods' Word it is the Spirit of God that works in all those who believe so that we can follow and walk in Gods' Word *Philippians 2:13; Galatians 5:16; John 8:31-36; John 17:17. This is the purpose of God's law it shows us that we are wholly dependent on God's Word for God's salvation and without Jesus we are as Paul says the chiefest of sinners. What do you think Matthew 9:12-13 and 2 Corinthians 12:10 mean? As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, no one loves God by breaking his commandments when Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments in John 14:15 and he that keeps Gods commandments is he who loves God in John 15:10 and on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. If you agree that love is not separate from Gods' law and is expressed in obedience to Gods law as shown through the scriptures already here linked and here linked, then as posted earlier, the rest is easy (Hebrews 4:1-9) which of course includes Gods' 4th commandment which is our duty of love to God.

Do you believe that being led by the spirit is in practice the same as reading the Bible and doing what it says?

 

[Leaf473]

Thanks for the message. I admit, I have not studied the original languages, but I would not put that as a reason for knowing and understanding scripture better one way or the other necessarily.

It could certainly explain the differences in our interpretations of scripture passages, couldn't it?

As I stated previously, you can't take one scripture and think it trumps all other scripture. All scripture needs to reconcile, sometimes what you are reading is true, but there is other scripture that builds on that scripture, so it may be true, but there is more to it. The Bible did not begin or end in Romans or Galatians and Paul is the most misquoted and misunderstood apostle.

From reading the one scripture you isolated Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The one word Paul is referring to is love. Does this verse trump what Jesus said?

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

What you are suggesting is what Paul is saying that we do not need to keep the commandments but all we have to do is Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;' And do we just ignore what Jesus said?

Maybe there is more to what Paul is saying and you have to read on to understand the context....

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Seems really similar to Revelation 22:14,15

Is Paul saying that the laws are shadows and we do not need to keep? Paul clearly is saying if we sin we will not inherit the kingdom of God. Also Paul has told us what really matters but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.1 Corinthians 7:19 Paul is clearly not saying the laws are "fulfilled= void" which seems to be your definition right now when you said all laws are shadow laws. In the recent past you agreed the Ten were required, but I see your stance has changed from a few weeks ago.

Love is the key word and while I know you don't like to repeat scripture but Jesus said if you love Me keep my commandments John 14:15 If you keep My commandments you will abide in My love John 15:10, Exodus 20:6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

So does your one scripture in Galatians trump all other scripture including direct quotes from Jesus or does is build on it? We do not show love to Jesus according to Jesus if we sin. Jesus is not going to keep us from sinning, He did not make robots, we have free will, we have to make the right decisions that come in our life daily. Jesus will give us a Helper, but it's still our actions that we will be accountable for. When we love Jesus we will not want to sin (keep God's laws) and be more like Him.

Hope this helps.

God bless

I agree that all scripture needs to reconcile and it's not a matter of one verse trumping others.

But you and I have different interpretations of all those different passages, like we've been talking about.

Now, I can believe that you have carefully searched the scriptures on this subject, that you earnestly seek God and want to do his will. Can you accept the possibility that the same is true about me?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It could certainly explain the differences in our interpretations of scripture passages, couldn't it?


I agree that all scripture needs to reconcile and it's not a matter of one verse trumping others.

But you and I have different interpretations of all those different passages, like we've been talking about.

Now, I can believe that you have carefully searched the scriptures on this subject, that you earnestly seek God and want to do his will. Can you accept the possibility that the same is true about me?

Leaf,

There is only one will of God and one Truth. God wrote His will on stone and its the only scripture God wrote with His own finger and spoke with His own voice, stored in the most holy of God's temple. I provided a lot of scripture that shows how sacred God's commandments are to God. TBH I haven't seen a lot of scriptures in your posts over the last few months and you have changed your stance on your interpretation in the past couple weeks. I also noticed you never really address any scripture I provide, you just state your opinion that my interpretation is wrong and yours is right.

Maybe you do know a lot about the Hebrew or Greek languages, I haven't really noticed that in your posts so I couldn't say you are an "expert" at language as I would have no idea. My father studied the old languages and he does not interpret scriptures the way you do and he also has a Ph.D. in theology and a masters in history.

I think we are at an impasse and we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe in God's laws, I love Jesus and He asked me to obey. I'm not sure how you could interpret it any other way, but for your sake I hope you're right and I am wrong that me obeying God's laws is just something extra I'm doing. I do it though out of love for Jesus. I know when my child disobeyed me , I never felt the love like when she cared about my rules and obeyed, not because she wanted to, more out of respect and because she loves me.

God bless

 

[Bob S]

It could certainly explain the differences in our interpretations of scripture passages, couldn't it?


I agree that all scripture needs to reconcile and it's not a matter of one verse trumping others.

But you and I have different interpretations of all those different passages, like we've been talking about.

Now, I can believe that you have carefully searched the scriptures on this subject, that you earnestly seek God and want to do his will. Can you accept the possibility that the same is true about me?

Hi Leaf, I believe you will never get the real straight answer as to what SDAs believe. Maybe this will suffice, they believe they are the only true church, the remnant, and all other churches are teaching falsehood. What a member might tell you could be much different than what the church doctrines are. They take their cue from Ellen White's writings. Those writings supersede everything. That is why one poster starts most of his/her posts with something like "that is not true ...".

There are many books out there that expose Adventism's doctrines in a very detailed way. They are great people that have been led to believe they are the true church.