Getting Into Christ

[Nova2216]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Please give a Scripture.


...salvation which is in Christ Jesus...(2Tim. 2:10)

 

[Navair2]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Please give a Scripture.

I'll give several, as I think one is not nearly enough:

" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." ( Romans 8:29-30 ).

" who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," ( 1 Timothy 1:9 ).

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ).

Ephesians 2:1-10.

That is how I got into Christ...
He put me there.

 

[Jonaitis]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Faith (Galatians 3:26).

 

[Tigger45]

I was about ten years old and at an AoG church. It was fifty years ago and I remember it clearly.

Romans 5:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

 

[Nova2216]

I'll give several, as I think one is not nearly enough:

" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." ( Romans 8:29-30 ).

" who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," ( 1 Timothy 1:9 ).

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ).

Ephesians 2:1-10.

That is how I got into Christ...
He put me there.

He placed you into His body (church) before you were ever born!

How's that?

Why do people preach the gospel if your way is true? (1Cor.1:21)

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Don't you have to believe to be saved?

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[DerSchweik]

Col 2:8 - 12 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Rom 6:3-5 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Gal 3:26f For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Acts 2:38 "Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 19:1ff It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?”

Acts 8:35f - Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

 

[Nova2216]

Col 2:8 - 12 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Rom 6:3-5 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Gal 3:26f For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Acts 2:38 "Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 19:1ff It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?”

Acts 8:35f - Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

Love all the scriptures.

 

[aiki]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Please give a Scripture.


...salvation which is in Christ Jesus...(2Tim. 2:10)

It began with God moving toward me when I was as Paul described all unbelievers, lost in sin, to be:

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Colossians 1:21
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

Romans 8:5-8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

As all born-again believers once were, I was bound in sin, blind and deaf to God, to His truth, unable to move toward Him, without power to please Him, soiled by sin.

But God. He moved toward me, fouled by sin though I was, drawing me to Christ (John 6:44). He convicted me of sin (John 16:8), and placed me under the sound of the Gospel, which is "the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes" (Romans 1:16), and gave me "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Timothy 2:25). Having done all this for me, and having come to understand the truth of Salvation, in and through Christ, I chose to place my trust in him, by faith believing in him as MY Saviour and Lord (Romans 10:9-10), being spiritually born-again in doing so.

By the Holy Spirit, the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9), I am "in Christ," made a joint-heir with him (Romans 8:17). The new life I have in Christ is given to me in the Person of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5; 1 John 4:13; Romans 8:9) who comes to live within me (1 Corinthians 6:19). In the Spirit, I possess all of what I need to be the person God calls me to be, made forever acceptable to God, fully justified, sanctified and redeemed in and through Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Pretty outstanding, eh, what God has done?

 

[Nova2216]

It began with God moving toward me when I was as Paul described all unbelievers, lost in sin, to be:

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Colossians 1:21
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

Romans 8:5-8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

As all born-again believers once were, I was bound in sin, blind and deaf to God, to His truth, unable to move toward Him, without power to please Him, soiled by sin.

But God. He moved toward me, fouled by sin though I was, drawing me to Christ (John 6:44). He convicted me of sin (John 16:8), and placed me under the sound of the Gospel, which is "the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes" (Romans 1:16), and gave me "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Timothy 2:25). Having done all this for me, and having come to understand the truth of Salvation, in and through Christ, I chose to place my trust in him, by faith believing in him as MY Saviour and Lord (Romans 10:9-10), being spiritually born-again in doing so.

By the Holy Spirit, the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9), I am "in Christ," made a joint-heir with him (Romans 8:17). The new life I have in Christ is given to me in the Person of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5; 1 John 4:13; Romans 8:9) who comes to live within me (1 Corinthians 6:19). In the Spirit, I possess all of what I need to be the person God calls me to be, made forever acceptable to God, fully justified, sanctified and redeemed in and through Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Pretty outstanding, eh, what God has done?

You mentioned (Eph. 2).

Are you aware the Ephesians were converted in (Acts 19:1-5)?

They were baptized twice. (Mark 1:4)

Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:16) (1Peter3:20,21) (Rom. 6:3-6,16-18) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16)



You said - " I was bound in sin, blind and deaf to God, to His truth, unable to move toward Him,


You posted (Jn. 6:44) but have you read (Jn. 6:45)?

(Jn 6:45)...they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.


We can understand Gods word according to (Eph. 3:3,4) (Jn. 7:17) (Eph. 5:17).

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


Thanks for posting.

 

[DerSchweik]

Matthew 24:45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

John 12:42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Numbers 20:12 But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.” v24... "because you rebelled against My command at the waters of Meribah."

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,

Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Acts 6:7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

2 Thess 1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

I Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

 

[Nova2216]

Matthew 24:45 “Who then is the faithful anWould you say one s not in Christ until he has been immersedd sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

John 12:42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Numbers 20:12 But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.” v24... "because you rebelled against My command at the waters of Meribah."

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,

Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Acts 6:7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

2 Thess 1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

I Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Can I ask you, at what point you were freed from sin / baptized into Christ / placed into the church?

And were these done all at the same moment in time?

Thanks

 

[DerSchweik]

Forgive my verbosity, but I think what you're asking for is my testimony:

I was raised going to church, believing as a consequence I was therefore a Christian. Unfortunately, my behavior never matched that belief. And I knew it. Most of the time it didn't bother me either; I enjoyed my sins - oh yeah, I really enjoyed them. Unfortunately, it took me some 27 years and a lot of hard knocks to realize my sins were getting me nowhere. I wasn't happy, I wasn't fulfilled - and most importantly, I was constantly plagued with a growing sense of guilt over them. But it wasn't enough to simply want them gone, or even free myself from them for a period (c.f. parable of the cleaned house). They always came back, typically with a vengeance. I felt powerless over them (cuz... I was). I can't tell you how many times I knelt in front of the TV, listening to televangelists, praying Jesus into my heart - often drunk or in a drugged stupor, always highly emotional and sincere (I thought), and never effective (I would learn later just how ineffective it really was).

I was spiraling, I didn't care about Jesus, just me and ending my guilt - but I believe God did hear me because after a bit He put a guy into my life who invited me to a bible study and agreed to attend. I started studying the Word, attending church (occasionally) - not knowing where it was all leading me. In time, I grew to trust these people - they weren't "Jesus freaks," they weren't some weird cult or anything like that (I grew up in a major college town and ran into every imaginable type of spiritualism you could imagine). They were normal, but more importantly, they were devoted to an objective, honest study of God's Word. Well, my sins were still spiraling despite all this (satan never rests).

I'd recently broken up with a girl with whom I'd been having an immoral relationship - broke up not because of my bible studies, but because... I just got tired of her. Nice guy, huh? But because we worked together (restaurant), one night she asked if I'd want to go to the hot tubs with her. I thought what all guys think in such a moment and said 'yes,' thinking tonight would be a 'sure thing.' So we're in the hot tub and she drops a bomb on me, "I'm pregnant." I wanted to sink beneath the water and end it there. Sensing my discomfort, she added after (no pun intended) a pregnant pause, "But I had an abortion." To this day I still remember my response - instant relief, I dodged a huge bullet. Yet, not one iota of concern for her, how that made her feel, or even something a small as practical offer to help out with the expenses. I ONLY THOUGHT OF MYSELF.

It was then I realized just how corrupt an individual I truly was. I knew I was a "sinner," did bad things, drank, did drugs, sex (you name it), but all of that paled to the truth of just how corrupt I was, at my core. This was no longer about whitewashing my guilty conscience to feel "clean" again (for a time). I needed a REAL change.

I later attended a 3-day "revival" at church - lots of classes, sermons, singing, devotional, etc. On the last evening there was an invitation to come forward and submit to Christ. I'd done all the studies, I knew the basics by this time. I remember during the invitation song asking Jesus if I should go forward, and honestly - He said "Yes!" (no, no voices or anything weird like that) - I just knew He wanted me to go forward. I did. I went to the back and changed into baptismal garments, then a few minutes later I found myself in the water with the man who would later marry me and my wife. I wasn't nervous. In front of some 600 people, he asked me, "Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God?" "Yes, I do." "Do you believe He died for your sins?" "Yes, I do." "And are you ready to make Him the Lord of your life?" "Yes, I am." "Based on that response, I am now able to baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of your sins, to receive the promised gift of His indwelling Holy Spirit." And he put me under.

He pulled me up and I felt - at home. I felt - right. Calm, warm, just... blessed. I rejoiced. I couldn't help but rejoice.

To answer your question, I believe at that point His Holy Spirit entered me to dwell within me. I believe He'd forgiven me of all my sins, for His Son's sake. I believe at that point I was now right with Him. I believe the evidence of my belief was (among other things) my submitting to His will for me - for "obeying the gospel" message.

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

How do we "disbelieve?" I believe the Scripture is clear - by refusing to obey Him. But obedience has it's rewards - most notably REJOICING.

 

[DerSchweik]

Acts 2:36ff Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Acts 8: 34ff The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 16:25ff But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened. When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

 

[aiki]

You mentioned (Eph. 2).

Are you aware the Ephesians were converted in (Acts 19:1-5)?

They were baptized twice. (Mark 1:4)

Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:16) (1Peter3:20,21) (Rom. 6:3-6,16-18) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16)

Ah. I see. You're looking for an argument. I thought you wanted to hear salvation testimonies.

You realize that the baptism of John the Baptist was not of the sort described by Paul in Romans 6:1-6? John's baptism was one of repentance, not symbolic of spiritual conversion and regeneration, as was the second baptism.

The last half of Mark 16, from about verse 11 or so onward to the end of the chapter, is actually considered by some Bible scholars to be a later accretion rather than original to the Gospel. I wouldn't, then, argue from these verses with any kind of serious dogmatism.

1 Peter 3:20-21 describes baptism as the "answer of a good conscience toward God," not a salvific factor in a Christian's conversion. As Peter explained, just as the water of the Flood flowed about the Ark, doing nothing to save Noah and his family, the water of baptism flowing about a person does nothing to save them, either. Baptism is merely the response of a born-again person to the saving work of the "Ark" that is, the Holy Spirit, who washes by regeneration, renewing the believer spiritually. (Titus 3:5; Romans 8:9-11)

Romans 6 describes a spiritual event: the believer's union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. Baptism symbolizes this spiritual reality which was necessarily accomplished before any believer was baptized. Inasmuch as Christ had to have died before any could be united with him in his death, baptism can only recognize what has already been done.

The references from Acts you offer say nothing about baptism saving anyone. This you appear to assume, reading your assumption into the various accounts of baptism.

One may read in many places in Scripture that faith, belief, trust in Christ are what brings them into God's family (John 3:16; John 3:36; John 11:25-26; John 12:36; John 20:31; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:22, etc.). Very few of those places say anything at all about baptism which is very strange if baptism is salvific. And then we have Paul's remarks to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

So Paul was baptizing some people but not others and was glad, even, that he had not baptized more! This is an astonishing thing for him to have written, if baptism is vital to a person's salvation! Paul is basically saying, then, that he was glad he hadn't helped some of the Corinthians to be saved! Why would Paul preach the Gospel of salvation and then refuse to help some who wanted to be saved by refusing to baptize them? Why did Paul clearly separate preaching the Gospel from baptism as though baptism was not an integral part of salvation, as you seem to think it is? What Paul wrote above is bizarre (at the very least) if baptism is truly salvific.

And there's also the thief on the cross, saved by Christ without baptism.

And, too, Scripture denies salvation is by any good work (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5), which baptism obviously would be.

You said - " I was bound in sin, blind and deaf to God, to His truth, unable to move toward Him,


You posted (Jn. 6:44) but have you read (Jn. 6:45)?

Yes. I've been a born-again believer for nearly fifty years.

We can understand Gods word according to (Eph. 3:3,4) (Jn. 7:17) (Eph. 5:17).

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Who is "we"? Believers understand, yes. But the lost, apart from God's illumination, cannot.

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 4:5-6
5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Romans 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

And so on.

 

[DerSchweik]

< snip >
1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

So Paul was baptizing some people but not others and was glad, even, that he had not baptized more! This is an astonishing thing for him to have written, if baptism is vital to a person's salvation! Paul is basically saying, then, that he was glad he hadn't helped some of the Corinthians to be saved! Why would Paul preach the Gospel of salvation and then refuse to help some who wanted to be saved by refusing to baptize them? Why did Paul clearly separate preaching the Gospel from baptism as though baptism was not an integral part of salvation, as you seem to think it is? What Paul wrote above is bizarre (at the very least) if baptism is truly salvific.

First, this is a classic logical fallacy, called denying the antecedant.

The premise of the objection is, "If Christ had sent Paul to baptize, then baptism would be part of the gospel message."
The conclusion is, "Christ did not send Paul to baptize, therefore baptism cannot be part of the gospel message."

Formally:

"If A is true, then B is true"
"A is false, therefore B is false"​

This is tantamount to saying:

"If I am a Texan, then I am also an American"
"I am not a Texan; therefore, I am not an American."​

Hopefully that puts to bed the [logical] basis of the argument. But there's more. Consider the CONTEXT of the statement, which this argument necessarily ignores (noting verses 10-13 are conveniently absent). Historically, even as early as the second century, this argument has been floated, and quickly debunked. Tertullian (A.D. 145 - 220):

Chap. XIV – of Paul’s assertion, that he had not been sent to baptize.

But they roll back an objection from that apostle himself, in that he said, “For Christ sent me not to baptize;” as if by this argument baptism were done away! For if so, why did he baptize Gaius, and Crispus, and the house of Stephanas? However, even if Christ had not sent him to baptize, yet He had given other apostles the precept to baptize. But these words were written to the Corinthians in regard of the circumstances of that particular time; see than schisms and dissensions were agitated among them, while one attributes everything to Paul, another to Apollos. For which reason the “peacemaking” apostle, for fear he should be seen to claim all gifts for himself, says that he had been sent “not to baptize, but to preach.” For preaching is the prior thing, baptizing the posterior. Therefore the preaching came first; but I think baptizing withal was lawful to him to whom preaching was.

Finally, the argument begs a couple questions:

1. Why did Paul say Christ did not send him to baptize? The answer can't be merely that Christ sent him to preach instead. I trust even those using the fallacious logic would dare not posit that.
   a. If that wasn't what Paul was saying, why attempt to make people infer it was?
2. Given Paul didn't actually say that baptism wasn't part of the gospel message, what do the objector’s assert Paul was saying?
3. With his statement (viz. verses 13 – 17 of chapter 1), is Paul creating here a theology of baptism (as the objectors would have us believe) or is he merely using the subject of baptism for other reasons?
   
4. Since Christ did not send Paul to baptize, why did he (Paul) - by his own admission, baptize?
   1. Why did Paul baptize Crispus and Gaius (v. 14)?
   2. Why did Paul baptize the household of Stephanas (v. 16)?
5. Was Paul sinning or being disobedient to Christ in baptizing those whom he did?
6. Paul thanked God (v. 14) that he hadn't baptized any others.
   1. Did Paul regret baptizing those he did?
   2. Did Paul feel as if he'd sinned in baptizing those he did?
   3. Was it a slip, forgetting his mission once, twice, three times or more why Christ had sent him?
   4. Was baptizing them a mistake?
   5. Was there some special reason he baptized those he did and not others?
   6. Were they 'special cases?' Maybe it seemed like the right thing to do at the time?
7. The people to whom Paul was speaking - were they baptized? Paul certainly speaks to them as if they were.
   1. How many of them were baptized (some, all)?
8. In whose name were they baptized (cf. v. 13, if not in Paul's name)?
9. Given baptism is part of our commission (Mt 28:18-20); was Paul's commission different from everyone else's?
   1. Did Paul deny this commission by not baptizing more than he did?
   2. Did Christ send Paul to speak out against Christian baptism?
10. Is there a difference between the act of baptizing and the act itself, that is, between those who administer the act, and the act itself?
    1. Is it somehow necessary [to the gospel] that Paul be the administrator of baptism?
    2. What is more important - who baptizes us, or that we be baptized?
11. Is submitting to baptism unimportant?
    1. If "yes," then why did Jesus command it? And are Jesus' commands [generally] unimportant?
    2. If “yes,” then why did Peter command it at the conclusion of his first sermon?
    3. If “yes,” then why did Ananias command it of Paul?
    4. If “yes,” then why mention baptism at all?
       1. Why did Luke (Peter's first sermon and examples of people becoming Christians) and Peter (first sermon and his letters) and Paul (to explain it, to appeal to it) mention it as often as they did?
       2. Why did Paul use it as his appeal here to the Corinthians that they not be divided?
    5. If "no," then what level of importance ought we ascribe to it?
       1. Is it say, "Important but not required?"
       2. If it's not required, then how important must it [really] be?
       3. To what end must it be important?
          1. That we be more mature?
          2. That we experience greater blessing?
          3. That we "show the world" of our commitment to Christ?
    6. If "no," and it's important AND required, then how can we assert "required, yes - but not for salvation?"
    7. If "no," what is the penalty for refusing to submit to baptism? Is there one? Does God treat it like He treats all our other sins, like our ongoing struggle with sins of the flesh?
    8. "Yes" or "no," where in Scripture is the backup for your response?
12. Of all those who DID baptize people in the New Testament, could it be said of any of them that that was their [sole] purpose in Christ? John? Ananias? Philip? Peter? Paul? Others?
13. Did Paul himself teach that baptism was not part of God’s gospel or salvation plan? If so, where did he teach that?
14. The objector’s conclusion is that baptism is not part of the gospel message; nor is it relevant to salvation. However, in chapter 2, verse 2 Paul asserts “for I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” If that is true, how did the Corinthians hear about baptism; and why did they submit to baptism? Why did Paul even bring up the topic of baptism?
15. When Jesus asserted “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved…” (Mark 16:16a) was He asserting something other than the gospel message? If so, what?

Oh, and btw - claiming Mark 16:9-20 is not part of the New Testament is rather lame. Yes, not all the early manuscripts contained it. But many did. If your claim is the former were wrong and the latter right - we'd love to hear your argument.

And there's also the thief on the cross, saved by Christ without baptism.

...and also saved before Christ's death (as well as His burial, and resurrection). Are you suggesting Christ's actual death (and that other stuff) is not relevant to salvation?

And, too, Scripture denies salvation is by any good work (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5), which baptism obviously would be.
< snip >

Please explain how submitting to baptism is somehow an "obvious good work."

 

[aiki]

First, this is a classic logical fallacy, called denying the antecedant.

The premise of the objection is, "If Christ had sent Paul to baptize, then baptism would be part of the gospel message."
The conclusion is, "Christ did not send Paul to baptize, therefore baptism cannot be part of the gospel message."

Actually, I was more modest in my assertions in regards to Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 1, asking questions rather than offering conclusions dogmatically. You seem to have ignored this, eager, it appears, to assume the role of pedant.

In light of the argumentative tone of your post, I am not at all interested in engaging you on the matter of baptism. I contributed to this post to offer a testimony to God's saving power and work, not scrap with strangers about baptism. Wow.

 

[Nova2216]

Ah. I see. You're looking for an argument. I thought you wanted to hear salvation testimonies.

You realize that the baptism of John the Baptist was not of the sort described by Paul in Romans 6:1-6? John's baptism was one of repentance, not symbolic of spiritual conversion and regeneration, as was the second baptism.

The last half of Mark 16, from about verse 11 or so onward to the end of the chapter, is actually considered by some Bible scholars to be a later accretion rather than original to the Gospel. I wouldn't, then, argue from these verses with any kind of serious dogmatism.

1 Peter 3:20-21 describes baptism as the "answer of a good conscience toward God," not a salvific factor in a Christian's conversion. As Peter explained, just as the water of the Flood flowed about the Ark, doing nothing to save Noah and his family, the water of baptism flowing about a person does nothing to save them, either. Baptism is merely the response of a born-again person to the saving work of the "Ark" that is, the Holy Spirit, who washes by regeneration, renewing the believer spiritually. (Titus 3:5; Romans 8:9-11)

Romans 6 describes a spiritual event: the believer's union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. Baptism symbolizes this spiritual reality which was necessarily accomplished before any believer was baptized. Inasmuch as Christ had to have died before any could be united with him in his death, baptism can only recognize what has already been done.

The references from Acts you offer say nothing about baptism saving anyone. This you appear to assume, reading your assumption into the various accounts of baptism.

One may read in many places in Scripture that faith, belief, trust in Christ are what brings them into God's family (John 3:16; John 3:36; John 11:25-26; John 12:36; John 20:31; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:22, etc.). Very few of those places say anything at all about baptism which is very strange if baptism is salvific. And then we have Paul's remarks to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

So Paul was baptizing some people but not others and was glad, even, that he had not baptized more! This is an astonishing thing for him to have written, if baptism is vital to a person's salvation! Paul is basically saying, then, that he was glad he hadn't helped some of the Corinthians to be saved! Why would Paul preach the Gospel of salvation and then refuse to help some who wanted to be saved by refusing to baptize them? Why did Paul clearly separate preaching the Gospel from baptism as though baptism was not an integral part of salvation, as you seem to think it is? What Paul wrote above is bizarre (at the very least) if baptism is truly salvific.

And there's also the thief on the cross, saved by Christ without baptism.

And, too, Scripture denies salvation is by any good work (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5), which baptism obviously would be.



Yes. I've been a born-again believer for nearly fifty years.



Who is "we"? Believers understand, yes. But the lost, apart from God's illumination, cannot.

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 4:5-6
5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Romans 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

And so on.

You are mistaken, I am not looking for an argument.

I am not looking for so called "testimonies."

The OP was very precise.

I asked for people to give me the scriptures which shows how they got "into Christ."


Here is what am lovingly trying to do.

1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Try = Test

because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


Thanks for posting.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Please give a Scripture.


...salvation which is in Christ Jesus...(2Tim. 2:10)

As soon as God saves you, you are "in Christ," Paul's favorite phrase. Look it up to see its extensive use by him.

 

[DerSchweik]

Actually, I was more modest in my assertions in regards to Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 1, asking questions rather than offering conclusions dogmatically. You seem to have ignored this, eager, it appears, to assume the role of pedant.

In light of the argumentative tone of your post, I am not at all interested in engaging you on the matter of baptism. I contributed to this post to offer a testimony to God's saving power and work, not scrap with strangers about baptism. Wow.

< snip >
Very few of those places say anything at all about baptism which is very strange if baptism is salvific (emphasis mine). And then we have Paul's remarks to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

So Paul was baptizing some people but not others and was glad, even, that he had not baptized more! This is an astonishing thing for him to have written, if baptism is vital to a person's salvation! Paul is basically saying, then, that he was glad he hadn't helped some of the Corinthians to be saved! Why would Paul preach the Gospel of salvation and then refuse to help some who wanted to be saved by refusing to baptize them? Why did Paul clearly separate preaching the Gospel from baptism as though baptism was not an integral part of salvation, as you seem to think it is? What Paul wrote above is bizarre (at the very least) if baptism is truly salvific. (emphasis mine)

With all due respect, your "questions" were quite obviously rhetorical, intended to assert a point. And the dogma behind the rhetoric was equally obvious - the belief that baptism is not part of the salvation process, am I right or did I get that wrong?

I get not wanting to debate baptism with me - fine, I won't - and I sincerely apologize if I came across overly strong to your "modest" assertions, but you did open the door for a concise rebuttal.

That said, don't you think it a little disingenuous for someone to assert their beliefs on baptism, then turn around and question another's motives when they rebut them (and quite effectively, apparently), calling them a "pedant" and "argumentative?"

FWIW, my point was not at all to be argumentative (outside the normal use of the word, involving an honest back-and-forth of ideas) but to point out - for your benefit and everyone else's who read this thread, that the employ of the "Christ Did Not Send Me to Baptize" objection to Christian baptism is a fatally flawed argument, employing a very common logical fallacy and several other transparent errors in logic that's been successfully rebutted since the second century (an objection, btw, that was first raised by Gnostics). That's all. Grace and blessings to you...

 

[Theologyofone]

How did you get "Into Christ" ?

Please give a Scripture.


...salvation which is in Christ Jesus...(2Tim. 2:10)

Read the book of Epbhesians and circle the words in Him. You will realize many of the things you have In Christs