About Sabbath

[pasifika]

This seems important to clarify before addressing some of the other.

The same is used in Hebrews 3:11, quoting Psalm 95, where the context is clearly a reference to God's oath that they would not enter in:

Heb 3:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου, εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.

Heb 3:10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’
Heb 3:11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘if they they shall enter my rest.’”


This is in reference to the generation in the wilderness:

Num 14:28 Say to them, ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you:
Num 14:29 your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me,
Num 14:30 not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

Deu 1:34 “And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore,
Deu 1:35 ‘Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers,

Deu 1:35 Εἰ ὄψεταί τις τῶν ἀνδρῶν τούτων τὴν ἀγαθὴν ταύτην γῆν, ἣν ὤμοσα τοῖς πατράσιν αὐτῶν,


He appears to be using an oath formula or idiom that was employed in several places in translating the LXX as listed below, and also occurs in the Greek of Mark 8:12.

Vincent's word studies;

Lit. if they shall enter, etc. A common Hebraistic formula in oaths. Where God is speaking, as here, the ellipsis is “may I not be Jehovah if they shall enter.” Where man is speaking, “so may God punish me if”; or “God do so to me and more if.” Comp. Mar_8:12 : lxx, Gen_14:23; Deu_1:35; 1Ki_1:51; 1Ki_2:8. Sometimes the ellipsis is filled out, as 1Sa_3:17; 2Sa_3:35.

An example of the filled out idiom when used by a person:

2Sa 3:35 Then all the people came to persuade David to eat bread while it was yet day. But David swore, saying, “God do so to me and more also, if I taste bread or anything else till the sun goes down!”


It is a quote of Psalm 95, which is Psalm 94 in the LXX

Psa 95:11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”

Psa 94:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου Εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.

So in short, it is an oath formula indicating they will not enter.

You could render it: "if they enter into my rest I am not the LORD. "

Thank you @tall73 yes Hebrews 4:5 is a quote from Psalms 95:11.."I declare on oath in my anger, "they shall Never enter my Rest".. thanks for bringing up this quote..

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66:23 settles it -- because it tells us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

It is pretty hard to be all that confused about such a simple direct and obvious text IMHO.

Very few Bible scholars claim that there is any fog at all in that text regarding the 'meaning' of the term "Sabbath" or "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for the author of the text - Isaiah, and his contemporary readers.

This part is apparently really really easy.

=====================

Isaiah 14 makes this same sort of mixed-application statement mixing in ultimate salvation history details in the midst of a chapter having local applications as well.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

It is applied to Lucifer whose sin of pride caused his fall - but it is mixed in with a local local context of "King of Babylon".

You can also see this mixed application in Ezek 28 with Satan - the "covering Cherub" -- mixed in with the "king of Tyre".


13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,

 

[HIM]

This seems important to clarify before addressing some of the other.

The same is used in Hebrews 3:11, quoting Psalm 95, where the context is clearly a reference to God's oath that they would not enter in:

Heb 3:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου, εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.

Heb 3:10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’
Heb 3:11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘if they they shall enter my rest.’”


This is in reference to the generation in the wilderness:

Num 14:28 Say to them, ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you:
Num 14:29 your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me,
Num 14:30 not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

Deu 1:34 “And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore,
Deu 1:35 ‘Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers,

Deu 1:35 Εἰ ὄψεταί τις τῶν ἀνδρῶν τούτων τὴν ἀγαθὴν ταύτην γῆν, ἣν ὤμοσα τοῖς πατράσιν αὐτῶν,


He appears to be using an oath formula or idiom that was employed in several places in translating the LXX as listed below, and also occurs in the Greek of Mark 8:12.

Vincent's word studies;

Lit. if they shall enter, etc. A common Hebraistic formula in oaths. Where God is speaking, as here, the ellipsis is “may I not be Jehovah if they shall enter.” Where man is speaking, “so may God punish me if”; or “God do so to me and more if.” Comp. Mar_8:12 : lxx, Gen_14:23; Deu_1:35; 1Ki_1:51; 1Ki_2:8. Sometimes the ellipsis is filled out, as 1Sa_3:17; 2Sa_3:35.

An example of the filled out idiom when used by a person:

2Sa 3:35 Then all the people came to persuade David to eat bread while it was yet day. But David swore, saying, “God do so to me and more also, if I taste bread or anything else till the sun goes down!”


It is a quote of Psalm 95, which is Psalm 94 in the LXX

Psa 95:11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”

Psa 94:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου Εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.

So in short, it is an oath formula indicating they will not enter.

You could render it: "if they enter into my rest I am not the LORD. "

Thank you @tall73 yes Hebrews 4:5 is a quote from Psalms 95:11.."I declare on oath in my anger, "they shall Never enter my Rest".. thanks for bringing up this quote..

First off context in Hebrew 4 supports "if they shall enter."

How so?

Because verse three indicates we have or at least some have entered. So "they shall not enter" is out of the question in respect to context.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


Second as you agreed, "if they enter into my rest" could be the proper translation because that is what the verse actually says in the Greek.

Third the Hebrew could also be translated either way. It depends on context. The word translated "if" Strong's citation is below. We highlighted in bold the word in the original so you can see it. If you have a KJV Bible you will notice that there is a footnote stating that the Hebrew is "if they enter into my rest" What is being shared here is probably why the LXX translators translated the way they did in the Greek. Because as was stated it can be understood either way. However the Greek word εἰ can't be. So if it is, it is not a translation but a paraphrase. Because the translator went from translating what is there to paraphrasing what they think it is. Sometimes that is good other times not so much.


Ps 95:11 אֲשֶׁר־ נִשְׁבַּ֥עְתִּי בְאַפִּ֑י אִם־ יְ֝בֹא֗וּן אֶל־ מְנוּחָתִֽי׃


H518
אִם
’im
eem
A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo!; interrogitive, whether?; or conditional, if, although; also Oh that!, when; hence as a negative, not:—(and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This will be my last post on the usage, because it is all that needs to be said. You indicated we needed to look at the usage. We did look at the usage. Out of 11 uses, 2 were clearly not usual sabbath rests. That means the word is capable of expressing non-usual sabbath rests. Whether Origin has "questionable" teachings is not what you proposed we talk about. You wanted to discuss usage, and we did. It is a usage close to the time, with a non-usual sabbath meaning. So the word is capable of being used that way.

And you continue to ignore Chrysostom, who was a native Greek speaking Arch Bishop who also indicated "sabbath-keeping" but applied it to other than the seventh-day Sabbath. So that is three historical instances of such applications. Hence, the word can be used of literal sabbath (weekly or otherwise), and non-usual sabbath applications. Your bid to consider it a limited technical term with no possible application to non-literal sabbath keeping is not accurate.

Yes I agree that all that has needed to be said has been said here in regards to the use and context of Sabbatismos to the weekly Sabbath. As shown from the scriptures alone in Greek and Aramaic the only use for σαββατισμός in Hebrews 4:9 is to "Sabbath keeping" or "Sabbath observance" which is done by resting as shown in the scriptures in Exodus 16:30; Leviticus 23:32; 26:34 and 2 Chronicles 36:21 from the Septuagint proving the meaning of the verb form of Sabbatismos which is Sabbatizo means "Sabbath keeping ".

All uses and meaning in Christian literature and outside of Christian literature (e.g. fPlutarch, De Superstitione 3, in Moralia 2. 166a; Justin (the Martyr), Dialog with Trypho 23.3; Epiphanius, The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis 30.2.2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitution 2.36.2; Origen, Celsus 5.59; Origen, Commentarii in Evangelium Joannis 2.33.198; Origen, Prayer 27.16; Origen, Selecta in Exodum 12.289.7; Origen, Excerpta in Psalmos 17.144.31) except for Origen alone apply the meaning of Sabbatismos to "Sabbath keeping" and "Sabbath observance" as to the literal Greek Aramaic and Latin language translations that all uphold what is being shared here. You have only shown two quotes written by the same author Origen that has questionable teachings that does not agree with both scripture meaning from three languages and nearly every other use of Sabbatismos.

The evidence here is against your claims here. Also no, I did not consider Chrysostom in the mix because his writing are 4th Century well after the time that Hebrews was written and also around the time that Sunday observance we beginning to enter into the Church. In the weight of the overwhelming evidence as shown above and making the scriptures our final word of authority and considering the full context of Hebrews 3:12-19 to Hebrews 4:1-9 that defines our rest through believing and following God's Word *Hebrews 4:1-3 and Gods' rest as the "seventh day" Sabbath from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:2 from Hebrews 4:3-4 we can see Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance still remains for the people of God who believe and follow His Word.

Anyhow I agree that this one has been addressed well already so we can move on to other things and agree to disagree. I liked this discussion though and thought it was helpful so thank you for this discussion regarding Hebrews 4:9 and Sabbatismos.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

For God spake in a certain place, Mt. Sinai of the Seventh Day on this wise, And God did rest, cease the Seventh Day from ALL His works. Including the works for our salvation through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. (Rev 13:8)

Hello HIM nice to see you. Hebrews 4:4 is not a reference to Mt Sinai. I posted this earlier to someone else but did not send you a link to it (my apologies). Let's look at the scriptures.

Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

is a direct reference to Genesis 2:2…

Genesis 2:2 [2], And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Then of course we read in Genesis 2:3 the making of the Sabbath for mankind (Mark 2:27)

Genesis 2:3 [3], And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

So the context of Hebrews 4:4 is in Hebrews 4:3 which also agrees with what is written above. Let's take a look..

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

So the scripture context of Hebrews 4:4 here is from creation (foundation of the world) not Sinai. That said however, of course God’s 4th commandment is linked directly to Sabbath keeping and God's 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and the reason for Gods’ Sabbath commandment is also stated in Exodus 20:11 which is because God after he created all things in Heaven and earth, blessed the “seventh day” and made “the seventh day” a holy day of rest for His people. So God's 4th commandant also links directly back to creation in Genesis 2:1-3 and to Hebrews 4:9.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have asked this before, but had no response: What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?

• Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
  I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.
• Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
  See above.
• Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
  Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.
• Take one day out to worship God?
  I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.
• The 7th day belongs to God?
  ALL days belong to God - he made them.

Answered with the following...

Hi SIM this might be helpful from the scriptures...

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

Exodus 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?
v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. The "seventh day" (our Saturday or Friday sunset to Saturday sunset bible time) is the last day or the week while according to the scriptures the first day (Resurrection day) is sunset Saturday to sunset Sunday evening our time.

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

Genesis 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

Exodus 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

Matthew 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mark 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exodus 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Exodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matthew 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts of the Apostles 16:13; Matthew 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Exodus 34:14; 1Kings 9:6; Revelation 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 16:22-23; Matthew 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in following any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is not done through faith that works by love because it is only as God writes His Law to love in our hearts that we can take up our beds to follow him. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4). Hope this is helpful. If you would like something specific please feel free to ask.

God bless

Your response here...

Yes, but that doesn't answer my question.

My apologies as I thought that my earlier post directly did answer your questions through the scriptures. Anyhow my bad let me see if I understand you better in the rest of your post as I thought I directly answered your question as shown above from the scriptures already.

I don't have a paid job and do not work 6 days a week; what does it mean to keep the Sabbath? I do voluntary work, yes - occasionally, not every day.

This was already answered in the post you said did not answer your questions. Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but the seventh day is a holy day of rest and in it we should not do any work that we normally do every other day of the week (see Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12.

I don't have sons, daughters, manservants, cattle or strangers within my gate.

Great that makes Sabbath keeping easy for you. If you did have other people staying with you then they would have to also keep the Sabbath and your animals if you used them for working during the week would to also need to have a rest on the Sabbath and do no work according to God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11

Fine; but often what I do, or don't do, on a Saturday is no different to the rest of the week.

According to the scriptures the "seventh day" is to be a holy day of rest to remember God as the creator of Heaven and Earth and a celebration of God as the only true God of creation and our creator. God set this day aside for us to be with us. I am sure you can find many things you can do to make Gods' Sabbath day a special day of rest and dedication solely to God as shown in my earlier post to you?

God is outside time - he only dwelt within it when he came to earth in Jesus.The hours of light and darkness vary considerably depending on what country you're in and the time of the year. At the moment for us in the UK, it gets dark at about 9pm - though even that varies across the country - and is light at about 6.a.m (though I'm not awake to verify that.) On our shortest day in Dec it gets light around 8.30 a.m and is dark by 3.30pm. So if your day is when it is light, and night is when it is dark; the saying "no 2 days are alike" must be literally true.

True, God is outside of time but we are inside time and the "seventh day" of the week in God's specified time (day starting evening and ending the following evening - Genesis 1) is the time that God wants us to start the Sabbath according to the scriptures *Exodus 20:8-11. Evening is sunset the time a new day starts according to the scriptures. You are correct in regards to day length which changes based on the time of the year and location. It is easy to know when the Sabbath starts and ends though (sunset to sunset being a day).

Again, the time of sunset varies - every day it is a minute earlier or later. Are we supposed to work out when sunset occurs on all the Fridays in the year, just so that we don't do some work at the wrong time?

See previous section. It does not really matter as sunset to sunset is a day no matter how short or long. Also you may like to know what I do? Each Sabbath I google my location and regions Sunset time so I know the exact time that the Sabbath starts. Just google and type in your locations "sunset" each Friday you will know the exact time that every Sabbath starts on your location so once known you can prepare to get ready a little earlier than the starting time.

Again, that doesn't answer my question; I do no paid work, just voluntary work for charities. It sounds like I can therefore do this any day; sabbath or not.

I thought it did answer your question as Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. What we cannot do though is our own work including buying and selling of any kind and forget His Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11. There is many things you can do to keep Gods' Sabbath as a holy day of rest as shown in the earlier post shared with you. If you can do your charity work any other day of the week do it any other day of the week and Keep the Sabbath as a holy day of rest dedicated only to God. If your charity might need unpaid help from time to time to help others go and do some good on the Sabbath. God's blessings come to those who seek to follow His Word.

I try to do this every day; it doesn't answer my question about why set aside one special day to do what I do pretty much all the time?

That is great! Then following God's 4th commandment should be easy for you.

For many, cooking is not work, but an act of love. Some cook for friends, those who are sick or the homeless - and you've already said that we can do good on the sabbath. Ditto shopping and cleaning - shopping for others, cleaning their houses, and your own; using your gifts as a homemaker. Matthew 21:13 says nothing about the Sabbath and you have taken the Exodus verses out of context.

There is a preparation day before the Sabbath (all Friday) to prepare for the Sabbath for shopping and buying and selling, cooking and cleaning etc. (Exodus 16:4-5; Exodus 16:23-28; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31 etc). These can all be done before the Sabbath starts. God does not want us to do these things on His holy day according to Exodus 20:8-11 if it can be done on any other day of the week. All these things you mentioned in your post can be done on the preparation day before the Sabbath starts according to the scriptures.

Thank you for your time, but none of what you have said actually answers my question. Over the years, people have said and argued that I SHOULD keep the sabbath - given my status as someone who does not work 6 days a week and worships, and lives for, God every day; how do I keep 1 day that is different? And what, in fact, will be different about it to what I do every day?

Your very welcome but I disagree that your questions have not been answered. God's 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is to those who believe His Word and love him. It is time that God has asked his people to put aside as a holy day of rest that he has blessed and set apart for us to be with him and come aside from all the daily cares of the world and breaking it just like stealing is dishonoring God and sin according to the scriptures in James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 if we know Gods' Word and do not do what Gods' Word says *James 4:17. By breaking Gods' 4th commandment we are in fact stealing Gods' time that he has set apart as a Holy full day of rest to be with him.

God bless

 

[BobRyan]

A question I have and is always on my mind during all of it:

Jesus is the Son of God and would never make anyone break the commandments. Everyone agrees on that. For example, Jesus would NEVER make anyone covet the neighbor or to steal, to not love the neighbor, etc.
So, what is the explanation of Jesus making other people break the Sabbath, both on Luke 6:1 and John 5:8-11?

1. Jesus never broke the Sabbath. But His false accusers among the Jews would often accuse Him
2. Jesus never made anyone else break the Sabbath. But His false accusers among the Jews would accuse
3. "Even in the New Testament" - "SIN IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
4. Even in the New Testament "to break one is to break them all" James 2:8-12


James 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom"

This is such an easy and obvious Bible detail - that Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate freely admit to the "all TEN are still valid" teaching of the Bible -- as I pointed out on page 1 and also on page 2 of this thread.

=======================

Luke 6:1 Now it happened that Jesus was passing through some grainfields on a Sabbath, and His disciples were picking the heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands, and eating them.

The point was not "Jesus arose and said let us harvest wheat in a stranger's field and steal his crop - so might as well do that sort of deed on Sabbath" as the Jews of Christ's day might have wished to cast it.

Rather it was going from A to - B and on the way plucking up some wheat and eating. Instead of the mission being to harvest - it as the incidental plucking of some plant as one is walking along the way.

Mark 2:23-28
23 And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” 25 And He *said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry; 26 how he entered the house of God in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?” 27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind made for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

1. Sabbath was made for mankind... the very point being debated
2. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath... the Lord's Day - the very point debated
3. the making of both mankind and the Sabbath in the 7 day Creation week.

 

[HIM]

Hello HIM nice to see you. Hebrews 4:4 is not a reference to Mt Sinai. I posted this earlier to someone else but did not send you a link to it (my apologies). Let's look at the scriptures.

Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

is a direct reference the original rest in Genesis 2:2…

God bless.

You are surmising my friend.
Verse 3 has God speaking.
Verse 4 has God speaking and that certain place was on Mt. Sinai. For it is written.

God spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt. Sinai not on the Seventh Day. In Genesis one the words "God said" is used on each day. In Chapter 2 verse 2 it is not. Therefore He did not speak of the Seventh Day in any wise. He rested. If He would have said anything in any wise in respect to the Seventh Day it would be stated as in chapter 1. Please do not add what is not there.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are surmising my friend.
Verse 3 has God speaking.
Verse 4 has God speaking and that certain place was on Mt. Sinai. For it is written.

God spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt. Sinai not on the Seventh Day. In Genesis one the words "God said" is used on each day. In Chapter 2 verse 2 it is not. Therefore He did not speak of the Seventh Day in any wise. He rested. If He would have said anything in any wise in respect to the Seventh Day it would be stated as in chapter 1. Please do not add what is not there.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

No dear friend I posted scripture verbatim, it is God's Word not mine.

It is you who is summarizing as your reading into Hebrews 4:3 Mt Sinai when is not in the scriptures when the scriptures are talking about creation.

Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

is a direct reference the original rest in Genesis 2:2…

Genesis 2:2 [2], And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Then of course we read in Genesis 2:3 the making of the Sabbath for mankind…

Genesis 2:3 [3], And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

So the context of Hebrews 4:4 is in Hebrews 4:3 which also agrees with what is written above. Let's take a look..

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

So the scripture context of Hebrews 4:4 here is to creation (foundation of the world) which is what the scriptures say, not Mt Sinai which the scriptures do not say.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[HIM]

No dear friend I posted scripture verbatim, it is God's Word not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish.

Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

is a direct reference the original rest in Genesis 2:2…

It is a direct reference to God speaking of the Seventh day on Mt. Sinai.
It is not verbatim and God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh day in any wise.
He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.

You are surmising, adding what is not written.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is a direct reference to God speaking of the Seventh day on Mt. Sinai.
It is not verbatim and God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh day in any wise.
He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.

You are surmising, adding what is not written.

No dear friend. I posted what was written verbatim (word for word). They are God's Word not my words and God's Word says Hebrews 4:4 is in reference to Genesis 2:2. Check Hebrews 4:4 verbatim with Exodus 20:8-11. It does not say what Hebrews 4:3 (foundation of the world) says and Hebrews 4:4 says. Now compared this with Hebrews 4:3-4 and Genesis 2:2. It is verbatim and fits the context of Hebrews 4:3 which is creation (foundation of the world). These are God's Words verbatim. Not my words.

...................

Some Commentaries of Hebrews 4:4 that might be helpful

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
For he spake in a certain place,.... Genesis 2:2 that is, Moses, the penman of that book spoke, or God by him: of the seventh day on this wise; of the seventh day of the world, or from the creation of the heavens and the earth:and God did rest the seventh day from all his works: of creation, but not of providence; for in them he works hitherto; nor does this rest suppose labour with fatigue and weariness, and ease and refreshment from it; only cessation from working in a creative way, and the utmost delight, complacency and satisfaction in what he had done. The Alexandrian copy leaves out the phrase, "the seventh day".

Bengel's Gnomen
Hebrews 4:4. Εἴρηκε, He said) viz. GOD, who also speaks in Hebrews 4:5; Hebrews 4:7.—ἑβδόμης) viz. ἡμέρας.—καὶ κατέπαυσεν ὁ Θεὸς ἐν τῇ, κ.τ.λ.) Genesis 2:2, LXX., καὶ κατέπαυσε τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τῇ ἑβδόμῃ ἀπὸ πάντων τῶν ἔργων αὐτοῦ, ὧν ἔποιησε, He rested, He withdrew Himself, so to speak, to His eternal tranquillity. It is remarkable that Moses has mentioned the end of the former days, but not of the seventh: Heb. from His work. It was one work, comprehending many works. The single term κατέπαυσεν corresponds to the Heb. מנוחה and שבת, by most suitably connecting the two passages Psalms 95 and Genesis 2.

Meyer's NT Commentary
Hebrews 4:4. Scripture proof for the thought implicitly contained in καίτοι κ.τ.λ., Hebrews 4:3, viz. that the actual existence of the divine κατάπαυσις, from which the Israelites were to be excluded, has not been wanting. The citation is from Genesis 2:2, according to the LXX., with some non-essential variations.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
For he spake - Genesis 2:2. "And God did rest."

Benson Commentary
Hebrews 4:4-8. For he spake in a certain place — Namely, Genesis 2:2

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
4. he spake—God (Ge 2:2).

............

Hope this is helpful.

 

[HIM]

No dear friend. I posted what was written verbatim (word for word). They are God's Word not my words and God's Word says Hebrews 4:4 is in reference to Genesis 2:2. Check Hebrews 4:4 verbatim with Exodus 20:8-11. It does not say what Hebrews 4:3 (foundation of the world) says and Hebrews 4:4 says. Now compared this with Hebrews 4:3-4 and Genesis 2:2. It is verbatim and fits the context of Hebrews 4:3 which is creation (foundation of the world). These are God's Words verbatim. Not my words.

Hope this is helpful.

Not at all.
NO they are not verbatim in the Greek or Hebrew. You are adding what is not there to fit your theology. God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh Day. That really is all that is to it. He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.

We are done in respect to this my friend and will not continue in this line any further with you.

May the Lord our God continue to Bless us in all His Way, Jesus Christ.

Love you brother.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Not at all.
NO they are not verbatim in the Greek or Hebrew. You are adding what is not there to fit your theology. God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh Day. That really is all that is to it. He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.

We are done in respect to this my friend and will not continue in this line any further with you.

May the Lord our God continue to Bless us in all His Way, Jesus Christ.

Love you brother.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. Anyhow we will agree to disagree as I have already posted you the scriptures, the contexts of the scriptures, comparing Hebrews 4:4 to the context of Hebrews 4:3, then compared Hebrews 4:3-4 with Exodus 20:8-11 and shown that the scriptures in Hebrews 4:3-4 do not match Exodus 20:8-11. Then we compared Hebrews 4:3-4 with Genesis 2:2 showing scripture match. This view also being supported by the majority other bible commentaries on Hebrews 4:4 not much else can be said here accept I am not really much for commentaries as there normally is not much consensus on interpretation although they seemed to be fairly unified that Hebrews 4:4 is referring to Genesis 2:2 which was what already believe and studied before I even visited there for you, as I did not know their view before I did my own personal study on this topic I thought it was interesting that they all support what I was sharing with you here in this thread though. That was the only reason they were posted to be honest. Anyhow I shared with you what I believe is supported from the scriptures. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is up to you.

Much love in the Lord as always.

God bless

 

[BobRyan]

Y In the weight of the overwhelming evidence as shown above and making the scriptures our final word of authority and considering the full context of Hebrews 4:1-9 that defines our rest through believing and following God's Word *Hebrews 4:1-3 and Gods' rest as the "seventh day" Sabbath from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:2 from Hebrews 4:3-4 we can see Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance still remains for the people of God who believe and follow His Word.

Amen!

And the question "remains from when?" - needs to be answered. Heb 4:7 -says it remains from the way it was in Ps 95:7 - at the time of David. hmm so that means it worked just fine at that time and it "remains" as it was then for us today. It worked so well back then that Moses and Elijah stand in glory with Christ - even before the Cross (see Matt 17) - and we have the "giants of faith" in Heb 11 -- all of them from Old Testament times.

So fine - given that it was perfect then -- did that perfect form of it - mean that they were all supposed to downsize the "ten commandments" to "zero" or to "nine" so they could have such a wonderful Sabbath "that remains" even for us today?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

DELETE Sorry for some reason was a double post not sure what happened

 

[tall73]

Perhaps you need to pray for yourself here dear friend and consider what is being shared with you from the scriptures. Please stop putting prayer ratings on my posts thankyou.

We are done in respect to this my friend and will not continue in this line any further with you.

You all have kind of an odd dynamic going here. I will just make one more post on the topic, then I think I am finished.

Let's take a look pasifika, tall73. Please follow along.

We called to exhort one another continuously lest any of us be hardened in the heart through the deceitfulness of sin. For we only remain partakers of Christ if our hearts are not hardened by sin and remain in the confidence, the faith of Christ.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 for we have become partakers of the Christ, if we may hold fast the confidence we had at the beginning to the end,
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

For some whom believed in the wilderness did provoke, roused indignation and their carcases fell in the the desert and they did not enter God's rest, the promised land. Which here in chapter 3 is synonymous to the rest we NOW have in partaking of Christ if we hold firm our confidence, faith firm unto the end. Not having our hearts hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Because we see that they in the wilderness could not partake of the prefigured rest due to unbelief; disobedience.

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Agreed with the context.

So fear, lest the promise of His Rest, the partaking of Christ any of us be accounted deficient, fall short of it. For unto us the Gospel was preached, the partaking of Christ, His Rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem (be accounted) to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.



And we who have believed do enter into His rest, the Gospel, the partaking of Christ.

Shall they enter in my Rest, the partaking of Christ, the Gospel ALTHOUGH THE WORKS FOR THIS REST WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD? For God spake in a certain place, Mt. Sinai of the Seventh Day on this wise, And God did rest, cease the Seventh Day from ALL His works. Including the works for our salvation through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. (Rev 13:8)


Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.

And this again HE SAYS in verse 5. IN THIS AGAIN WHAT? Context and grammar bring us back to verse 4. So, IN this Again He speaks.

Here I disagree.

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

It appears to refer back to verse 3. He lays out that we who believe enter His rest. And he notes that God's works were finished since the foundation of the world--He has been resting from His creative work since then.

In verse 4 he gives the Scriptural support of God's rest being from the foundation of the world. After reviewing both arguments I think @LoveGodsWord is correct, this is referring to Genesis based on the wording. And no, God is not seen speaking there. However, He appears to be referring to the Spirit speaking there, as we saw in 3:7:

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,

Verse 5 ties 3 and 4 together, again quoting Psalm 95, as did verse 3, to explain that those who believe enter the rest of God which has been going since the cessation of His created works.

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

WHAT DOES HE SPEAK? HE SPEAKS, of the Seventh Day IF they shall enter in my rest, the rest that is of the Gospel, the partaking of Christ. THIS with verse 9 IS THE COMMANDMENT for the Sabbath for ALL that say IT IS NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

Then it is a commandment of the rest of the gospel.

SO how does He speak it? As He did on Mt Sinai. As a Matter of fact, as a commandment for all who partake of Christ, His Rest which is of the Gospel. For God has said, There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God. For he that has entered into his rest, the rest in which is of the Gospel. He ALSO hath Ceased from his own works AS GOD did from His. (vs 9 and 10)


Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

A few things NEED TO BE NOTED from verse 9. Two separate things are being mentioned contextually. THE rest which is of the Gospel, the partaking of Christ And a ceasing from work AS God did. HOW DO WE KNOW there are 2?
Because the word "ALSO" tells us there are two separate things being spoken of here. THIS IS A FACT One is the rest, the partaking of Christ which has been entered. And because of entering into that Rest we are ALSO to cease from our work AS God did from His.

How did God cease from working? He stop working. Did He enter into a Spiritual Rest? NO, He is always in that state He is God. HE CEASED FROM WORK, physical work. THE WORD AS denotes a direct comparison. So we who have entered into the Rest, the partaking of Christ, a rest which is Spiritual ALSO cease from our own work AS GOD DID from His. WE Stop our physical labor on the SEVENTH DAY AS HE DID and We keep the DAY holy through our partaking of CHRIST, the rest which He offers that is of the Gospel..

No, I don't think that is the reference, though I agree it says we rest from our works. It is the same rest spoken of throughout--the rest of faith--but it culminates in entering the promised land, just as it should have for those who doubted in the wilderness, but they hardened their heart.

This is why the term used is indefinite, with no article, as it is referring to a sabbath rest of a different sort, not the weekly Sabbath (as we saw Chrysostom a native Greek speaker acknowledge).

The rest remains to be entered from the time of the Psalmist, Psalm 95. Even though Joshua led the next generation into the promised land, the opportunity to enter the true rest of God still remained--if they did not harden their hearts.

This is in line with the context in chapter 3:

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

They were to trust in Him by holding the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. That was the problem with those who fell in the wilderness. They began the journey, but they did not hold their confidence fast to the end, but hardened their hearts and faltered due to unbelief, so that they could not enter the promised land.

He has been saying do not harden your hearts, but encourage one another daily, today. This is in line with the whole context of the book in which repeated appeals are made to endure, and not fall back. They have been faithful to Christ for years, standing up for Him even though they had their goods confiscated, etc., but had not been growing in their faith as they should have, per the larger context. And now that they have need to continue to stand firm, as they are drawing to the goal--rest in the promised land--they are not to fall back as did those in the wilderness.

And if they endure then they do truly rest from their works, just as He did, continuously after His labors, and not just once a week. They rest permanently, because they enter the fulfillment of the promised land, they enter God's rest, where they are done with their labors, done struggling with sin, and are at home with Him.

I realize not all are Adventists here, but for those who are Ellen White takes the ceasing from labors as our labors here on earth as well, and the rest a spiritual rest here and in the life to come:

[Hebrews 4:9, 11 quoted.] The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace, obtained by following the prescription, Labor diligently. Those who learn of Jesus His meekness and lowliness find rest in the experience of practicing His lessons. It is not in indolence, in selfish ease and pleasure-seeking, that rest is obtained. Those who are unwilling to give the Lord faithful, earnest, loving service will not find spiritual rest in this life or in the life to come. Only from earnest labor comes peace and joy in the Holy Spirit—happiness on earth and glory hereafter. Let us therefore labor. 7BC

 

[Strong in Him]

Answered with the following...

Sorry, but it doesn't really answer my questions.

What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?

• Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
  I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.
• Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
  See above.
• Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
  Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.
• Take one day out to worship God?
  I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.
• The 7th day belongs to God?
  ALL days belong to God - he made them.

Ok, so you say I SHOULD refrain from work on a Saturday - I don't have a job, so what is work?
"6 days shall you labour"; I don't labour any days, aside from voluntary charity work, which is apparently allowed on the Sabbath anyway.

The was already answered in the post you said did not answer your questions. Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but the seventh day is a holy day of rest and in it we should not do any work that we normally do every other day of the week (see Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12.

I don't have any work that I normally do the rest of the week; that's the point.
I have voluntary shifts with a couple of charities; these, hobbies and church pastoral work make up my week. It seems that all these activities would be permitted on the Sabbath - doing good, and relaxing.
So there's no difference.

And those Scriptures you keep posting are out of context.

According to the scriptures the "seventh day" is to be a holy day of rest to remember God as the creator of Heaven and Earth and a celebration of God as the only true God of creation and our creator.

As I said, I do that every day - so what's the difference?

I am sure you can find many things you can do to make Gods' Sabbath day a special day of rest and dedication solely to God as shown in my earlier post to you?

As I said: EVERY day belongs to God, and Scripture says that whatever you do do, whether in word or deed, do it ALL in the name of the Lord, Colossians 3:17. A few verses on Paul says, "whatever you do work at it with your whole heart", Colossians 3:23.
So any kind of work - even the dull, routine stuff - is to be done wholeheartedly, in the name of the Lord. That's why I said that work = worship; we are serving him, in his presence, with his strength and honouring him by using the gifts that he has given us.
As I do on a Saturday what I do for the rest of the week; what's the difference?

I thought it did answer your question as Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

So I can do charity work - which is my usual work - on a Saturday just as much as at any other time.
So what's the difference? How do I refrain from my normal work, when my normal work is to do good, and that is allowed?

What we cannot do though is our own work

All work that's done with our whole heart for God, is his work.

God does not want us to do these things on His holy day

All days that are begun with God, in which we walk with God and receive his Spirit to enable us to work in his power, are holy days.

All these things you mentioned in your post can be done on the preparation day before the Sabbath starts according to the scriptures.

You're missing my point.
You mentioned cooking was not allowed; I said that for some, cooking is relaxing and they use it for the benefit of others; like cooking meals for a homeless shelter or a neighbour who is in need.
You mentioned cleaning - ditto.
Besides WHATEVER we do we are to work at it with our whole heart as for the Lord. Even if someone does not cook or clean for anyone else; it's a way of showing love to the family. Cooking, cleaning, gardening can be doing good - and you said that doing good is allowed on the Sabbath.

Your very welcome but I disagree that your questions have not been answered.

The practicalities haven't been answered; no.
What is work? Especially for someone who is unemployed/retired/too disabled to have paid work?
What if someone's work is doing good - which as you have correctly said, is allowed on the Sabbath?

We live in a different time to that of the Hebrew slaves in the OT.
We do not have to seek God through prophets and priests; we can approach him for ourselves.
We should not think of categorising work and worship - i.e 6 days for our work and one day for God; we are told to put him first, rejoice always, pray at all times and give thanks in all circumstances, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18. And to do all our work in his name.
We are told to live each day for the Lord and as if it is our last; being prepared for his coming. If the Lord tells me to do something on a certain day, I'm not going to disobey and say "Oh but I can't; it's Saturday." Supposing that was my last day on earth and I'd spent it a) disobeying God and b) sitting around doing nothing? Supposing I had an opportunity to speak to someone/do something for them that might lead them coming to faith, and because I didn't do it, that person suffered?
We do not have to go to a special place to find God; he is with us all the time and lives in us by his Holy Spirit. So we can pray to him, sing, worship and meditate on him always - just as much on the bus as kneeling by a bed.

It is time that God has asked his people to put aside as a holy day of rest that he has blessed and set apart for us to be with him

No, it is a day on which he asked the Hebrews to rest and be with him - we are with him always, and he with us. We are to abide in the vine 24/7, 7 days a week; not just one.

By breaking Gods' 4th commandment we are in fact stealing Gods' time that he has set apart as a Holy full day of rest to be with him.

We can't steal God's time - he literally has all the time in the world. And he is with us, and has asked us to be with him EVERY day.

 

[BobRyan]

Strong in Him said: ↑
What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?

• Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
  I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.
• Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
  See above.
• Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
  Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.
• Take one day out to worship God?
  I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.
• The 7th day belongs to God?
  ALL days belong to God - he made them.

Ok, so you say I SHOULD refrain from work on a Saturday - I don't have a job, so what is work?
"6 days shall you labour"; I don't labour any days,

First of all - this is not a case of one person who happens to like taking Saturday as a day off - proposing that some Sabbath texts should "exist" in the Bible.

So unless the Sabbath person is God Himself we cannot say "you say I should not work" to anyone but God.

Ex 20:8-11 - says "10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The one speaking there is God.

In vs 11 He makes this same point

Gen 2:1-3 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Is 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

==================

As a person who is now retired - I "do not have a job" but I do mow the lawn some days, and work on a garden, burn leaves, cut trees, saw up logs, wash the car.. you name it -- I do stuff during the week. But I don't "do that in church" which means I also don't do it on the Sabbath - an entire day dedicated to worship, sharing the gospel, prayer, fellowship, etc.

church pastoral work make up my week. It seems that all these activities would be permitted on the Sabbath - doing good, and relaxing.
So there's no difference.

A pastor's work of praying for the sick or preaching the Gospel or giving Bible studies is a special case of "work" that is normal during the six working days also being in harmony with the Bible Sabbath.

(Actually I am not sure you even have a question that you are asking about that point - or am I missing something)

 

[BobRyan]

As I said: EVERY day belongs to God, and Scripture says that whatever you do do, whether in word or deed, do it ALL in the name of the Lord, Colossians 3:17. A few verses on Paul says, "whatever you do work at it with your whole heart", Colossians 3:23.
So any kind of work - even the dull, routine stuff - is to be done wholeheartedly, in the name of the Lord.

And yet we are not sawing down trees or sawing up logs in the middle of church on Sunday or Saturday. Neither do we run the leaf blower or wash the windows or schedule a work bee in the middle of church.

This idea of having something sanctified and set apart for worship and devotion to God is not some new idea that only Bible Sabbath keeping Christians acknowledge.

The point on this thread is whether God's Holy day should be acknowledged. "The Holy day of the LORD" Is 58:13

 

[BobRyan]

No, it is a day on which he asked the Hebrews to rest and be with him - we are with him always, and he with us. We are to abide in the vine 24/7, 7 days a week; not just one.
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Gal 1:6-9 there are not two gospels -- there is only one.
Gal 3:8 - that Gospel was preached to Abraham
Heb 4:1 the Gospel was preached to us JUST as it was to them also.
1 Cor 10:4 they all drank from the same Spiritual Rock - and that Rock was Christ.

They did not have a gospel of "live for self 6 days a week and then let God abide with you for one".

Moses and Elijah stand in glory "with Christ" in Matt 17 - before the cross even happened.

The "Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27 not "the Sabbath was made just for Hebrews" --and that is the pre-cross statement on the doctrine of the Sabbath.

Is 56:6-8 -- gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Even in the NT - in Acts 13 gentiles ask that MORE Gospel preaching be given "on the next Sabbath" instead of "tomorrow"

For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23