Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

[Douggg]

The end of 490 years was 34 AD.

That's what I love about math - it's concrete......definitive.....not changed by opinion. Just focus on the math....and historical facts that are agreed on by historians. It's historical fact that's agreed on that Jesus was born in 4 BC.....was 30 years old in 26/27 AD......had a 3.5 year ministry.....and was crucified by the Romans for sedition against the Roman empire (that is who they reserved the executions by cross for - seditionists) in 30 AD (the middle point between 26/27 AD and 34 AD).

Luke's writing gives a lot of clues to timing based on the historical details he includes. Look at Luke 1:

Gabriel Foretells John’s Birth

5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah, and whose wife Elizabeth was a daughter of Aaron

Luke 3:23
Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry. He was regarded as the son of Joseph, the son of Heli
​

Pay close attention to Acts 10. This is a "hinge point" (34 AD) where you can tell - if you pay close attention - things are changing.

Luke wrote that Peter said:

Acts 10
“I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem​

But calendar years are not necessary (or even possible because the calendars have built in flaws) for understanding Daniel 9. What is necessary is the events and the spacing.

The Jews and Jerusalem to embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation to happen in the middle of the 70th week.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The new covenant in Christ is about the redemption of the soul and the body. The redemption of the body will be in the resurrection for them who have died in Christ. And the rapture for them in Christ alive at the time.

The law of Moses covenant did neither.

Douggg,
More on the rapture...

These three scriptures below are speaking about our conversion, not the rapture or the second coming of Christ as is commonly taught.

1). CHRIST SAID IT THIS WAY:

Mat 24: 37-40 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

These verses are NOT speaking of the rapture as is commonly taught. They are speaking of the second coming of Christ when He brings the Latter Rain to His Elect for their conversion.

The two people in the field symbolize ONE called out believer. This believer is in the "field" (earth) which is where called out believers dwell. When Christ returns, He comes as a thief in the night while the person is dwelling in "peace and safety" (like the days of Noah). When Christ comes, He brings destruction to our Man of Sin and replaces him with the birth of the New Man in Christ. One is taken (the Man of Sin) and one is left (New Man in Christ).

PAUL SAID IT THIS WAY:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In verse 1, Paul writes about the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him. This appearance is the same as the “Day of Christ” (verse 2). As with the Early Rain, the Latter Rain of the Spirit is not a visible appearance to this earth but rather a spiritual event to the individual believer. At this time, Christ gathers us to Him to dwell with Him in the heavens. The New Man is born within the believer.

However, Paul says that the Day of the Lord cannot happen to a believer “except there come a falling away first and that Man of Sin be revealed”. This “falling away” is the return to Works of the Law for salvation and coupled with Satan’s lies and deceptions, a worsened carnal state is produced - the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition.

Only the Truth which is Jesus Christ can destroy this Man of Sin whom we have become.

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The spiritual terms “spirit of His mouth” & “brightness of His coming” represent Truth which we receive from the Holy Spirit.

From this point forward, if the believer remains faithful unto the end , his race will be won and he will be awarded the Crown of Righteousness. He will be included in the First-fruits of the harvest and will have overcome this world (carnality) just as Christ overcame this world. However, it is not by our works that this happens – it is by the work of Christ. We are His workmanship and that is why salvation is guaranteed for all mankind. Christ never fails.

PETER SAID IT THIS WAY:

2Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The Day of the Lord is when Christ converts a person. That day will come at a time when we do not expect Him, when we are asleep during the night (time of spiritual darkness within us). The "heavens" represents the place where our carnal mind is located and the "earth" represents our carnal nature. The "elements" represent our carnal beliefs. All this will be "burned up" which represents their destruction resulting from Christ's judgment (fire). The New Heavens and New Earth represent the Mind of Christ and Christ's holy nature which govern the New Man.

The parable of the Ten Virgins is another teaching on conversion, as is the story of the Woman taken in Adultery.

Once a person can "see" spiritually, the pathway to conversion shows itself in many places of scripture - even in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

There is distinction made in 1Thessalonian4:15-18 between them dead in Christ (to rise first) and then them alive in Christ (to be caught up) together with them (in the resurrected dead in Christ).

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Douggg,
When I mentioned the "twinkling of any eye" verse, I should have went back and read it again. It is speaking of the bodily resurrection of the dead and not conversion. The verses you mention in 1Thes 4 are likewise speaking of the resurrection of the dead.

The verses I quoted in my last post are the ones speaking of conversion.
Joe

 

[DavidPT]

Pay close attention to Acts 10. This is a "hinge point" (34 AD) where you can tell - if you pay close attention - things are changing.

Luke wrote that Peter said:

Acts 10
“I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem​

All of this still misses the point, and that is, where can we see anything in Daniel 9:25-27 involving that period of time specifically? It for sure isn't in verse 27, yet verse 27 is the 70th week.

And speaking of math...

A person works Monday through Friday and works 40 hours.

First of all there are obviously more than 40 hours in 5 twentyfour hour days. There is no way to work 40 hours Monday through Friday unless there are gaps. And when there are gaps, none of the work hours are even being counted, yet the math still works out anyway and still ends up equalling 40 hours, regardless. The same would be true for the 70 weeks if there are any gaps in them. During any gap none of the 70 weeks are being counted. After the gap when the 70 weeks resume, the 70 weeks are then being counted again, and in the end it still adds up to 70 weeks total the same way it still adds up to 40 hours total in the example I used above.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The premill’s so-called 2,000 year gap theory is false. It’s a man made theory that doesn’t support by Scripture.

The Cross was when the 62 weeks ended with the cut-off of the Messiah the Prince (Dan 9:26) AND the 70th week beginning with the covenant confirmed by the Messiah the Prince with His Blood for His Congregation (Dan 9:27, Hebrews 9:15-17).

 

[DavidPT]

The premill’s so-called 2,000 year gap theory is false. It’s a man made theory that doesn’t support by Scripture.

The Cross was when the 62 weeks ended with the cut-off of the Messiah the Prince (Dan 9:26) AND the 70th week beginning with the covenant confirmed by the Messiah the Prince with His Blood for His Congregation (Dan 9:27, Hebrews 9:15-17).

There is a gap in the 70 weeks. Either it's between the 69th and 70th week, or it's between the middle of the 70th week and the 2nd half of that week. Verse 27 alone proves there is a gap somewhere since it is impossible, if Christ is meant per the one ending sacrifices in the middle of the week, that the remainder of that verse can be fulfilled without it involving any gaps. The way most non gappers try and get around this, they insist that not everything recorded in verse 27 is meaning during the 70th week.


Speaking of someone causing sacrifices to end, I guess per the following one should take this to mean Christ as well since it is basically the same thing the one in Daniel 9:27 is doing in the midst of the week.

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down(which sounds rather abominable to me)----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So IOW, Daniel 8:11 tells us what this one is going to do, and that Daniel 9:27 tells us specifically when he is to do it.
But why continue wasting time debating any of this with others when others are not even wanting to at least use some common sense here, meaning in this particular case, and not meaning in general? The common sense I'm referring to here, Daniel 9:27 proves there is a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, the fact that entire verse is meaning the 70th week.

 

[keras]

There is no tribulation period, coming antichrist, rapture or visible second coming of Christ to this world.

Anyone who thinks this, may as well not bother to open their Bibles.

Shame really; Paul said: we Christians should not be in the dark about God's plans for our future. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Are Daniel's people the Jews, Israel, in a state of having been saved? No.

Some of them are. Why do you act as if none of them are?

Is Jerusalem in a state of everlasting righteousness? No.

When do you think that will happen?

Have the Jews repented of their transgression of having rejected Jesus ? No.

Many of them have over the years. Why do you act as if none of them have? Where does it say that all of them need to do that in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled?

Jesus is the one who finished the transgression. You are waiting for sinful, Christ-rejecting people to accomplish what only Jesus could do.

John 19:29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed...8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Romans 4:13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.

 

[TribulationSigns]

There is a gap in the 70 weeks. Either it's between the 69th and 70th week, or it's between the middle of the 70th week and the 2nd half of that week.

Sorry, you are not accurate.

Luke 21:7

• "And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?"

Clearly, it's not talking about two periods, but one period where "these things" would take place. It is the confusion of scripture to attempt to make "these things" in the first part of the verse refer to AD 70, and the "these things" in the second part refer to the end of the world. And when we compare the parallel passages, that is exactly what we would have to do.

Verse 27 alone proves there is a gap somewhere since it is impossible, if Christ is meant per the one ending sacrifices in the middle of the week, that the remainder of that verse can be fulfilled without it involving any gaps.

It is impossible for those who do not accept the truth.

There really is no "Biblical warrant" to conclude that it's talking about two eras separated by over 2000 years. There is no Biblical evidence that it's talking about anything but one time period when the Lord would return in judgment at the end of 70 weeks. These "signs" were "these things" that would be the harbinger of the Lord's Second Advent. When we carefully examine the whole chapter in order, in context, we conclude the whole idea of AD 70 is forced and untenable.

Matthew 24:33-36

• "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
• Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
• Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
• But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

See? The time when all "these things" shall be fulfilled is the end of the world. And all "these things" shall not be fulfilled until the end of the world. For a list of all "these things" one has only to carefully examine Matthew 24. Not some of these things, but "ALL" of these things must be fulfilled, and they weren't in AD 70.

The way most non gappers try and get around this, they insist that not everything recorded in verse 27 is meaning during the 70th week.

Where is the VERSE that allows gap or were you making it up to fit your doctrine? The Framework Hypothesis, Evolution, the Gap theory, even Dispensationalism, and many other intricate doctrines, all feign harmony through intricate convolutions. But when you take away the fancy cover and the intricately enfolding explanations, you find that there is no substance there, just a lot of assumptions, suppositions, and theories. Like a fancy gift box with nothing inside it.

Speaking of someone causing sacrifices to end, I guess per the following one should take this to mean Christ as well since it is basically the same thing the one in Daniel 9:27 is doing in the midst of the week.

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down(which sounds rather abominable to me)----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So IOW, Daniel 8:11 tells us what this one is going to do, and that Daniel 9:27 tells us specifically when he is to do it.

Yes, it is Christ who will have caused the daily sacrifice to be taken away. There are many people misunderstanding the prophecy of the "taking away of the daily sacifice" because they usually look at this (daily sacrifice) as an old testament ritual, and yet they place it within the New Testament dispensation. It is a CONTRADICTION to me to have God prophesy of Old Testament ceremonies occurring within the New Testament.

The daily (sacrifice), which is the word [tamiyd], was the sacrificial offering that was to be presented continually. The actual Hebrew word [tamiyd] literally means continual, and illustrates extension, such as a perpetual action. e.g.:

Exodus 29:37-38

• "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy.
• Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually."

That word translated "continually" is the same Hebrew word [tamiyd] that is translated "Daily" (sacrifice), and of course, these Old Testament acts are "types" that point to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. Please keep that in mind! Jesus Christ is the one true perpetual/continual sacrifice for our sins. So when Aaron and the Priests offered the daily/continual animal sacrifices for sins, they were merely a shadow of the coming Messiah, the only true continual sacrifice for sin.

Ephesians 5:2

• "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."

Those animals that were commanded by God to be continually sacrificed, were never enough to take away anyone's sin. You realized this?! Only Christ sacrificing Himself could do that! Period! But these (the sacrificial laws) were ONLY A SHADOW that people saw darkly, prefigured things to come! In the New Testament era, the old shadow is done away with. We, Christians, would/should no longer offer the daily or continual sacrifice, because that would in effect deny the anti-type. God's election no longer holds to ceremonies in the type, but the anti-type. All things in Christ, our one-time sacrifice that daily/perpetual/continually atones for our sin.

Hebrews 7:27

• "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."

My point is, Christ is now the "daily sacrifice" of the believers in the New Testament, therefore, Daniel 9:27 is talking about the New Testament Congregation! And this is what will be taken away!

Daniel 8:11

• "Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down."

Now tell me, what is the place of whose sanctuary? Which sanctuary? Old Testament or the New? Remember, the daily, which is Christ! And the place, which is His house, the Church in the New Testament! It has NOTHING to do with Old Testament type sacrifices as many believe. The old shadow being passed into history, and the anti-type replacing it. So when you see prophesies in the New Testament concerning sacrifices, it is the spiritual anti-type application, not the former animal types. All instances in Scripture of future prophesy concerning the daily sacrifice reference the atonement of Christ for man, and by extension the work of Christ in salvation. They do not, and could not reference the re-institution of a literal animal sacrificial system, and a subsequent taking away of it from some future physical temple! That would be confusion to have Christ's sanctuary re-instituting animal sacrifices. YOu need to read Hebrews 10 carefully as God is clear on this matter.

Hebrews 10:1-14

• "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
• For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
• But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
• For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
• Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
• In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
• Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
• Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
• Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
• By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
• And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
• But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
• From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
• For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Those daily/continual sacrifices were for a [skia] that we have remembrance of sin, but Christ was the true offered once forever, continually, perpetually. Because that is what the types really foreshadowed. The daily/continual sacrifice today is Spiritual, the salvation of God through Christ, which we minister to the world, giving thanks to God for the privilege.

Hebrews 13:15-16

• "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
• But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.""

So, understanding all this, we know that when Daniel 9:27 talks about the daily (sacrifice) being taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, refers not to animal sacrifices, but to the removal of Christ, our daily/continual sacrifice. And the set up of a false God as a replacement in God's house. Selah! That is the abomination that will leave the New Testament Congregation!

Therefore, please remember that I have shown you with Scripture that Christ, our high priest, works through His New Testament Congregation to build Church UNTIL all Elect He want to seal have been sealed, THEN He will cause the daily sacrifice needed for salvation to CEASE. Yes, He ultimately did this. How? To use Satan to accomplish it! Remember Christ is in full control of everything. He bind Satan and restrained him, so He could build the church. After this, Christ loosen Satan and used him to bring an end to dailyi sacrifice as a judgment upon His unfaithful congregation - - AFTER Christ has secured all of His people!

ting to at least use some common sense here, meaning in this particular case, and not meaning in general? The common sense I'm referring to here, Daniel 9:27 proves there is a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, the fact that entire verse is meaning the 70th week.

Common sense? LOL! Daniel 9:27 does NOT say anything about the gap. I have explained my position and its biblically!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is a gap in the 70 weeks. Either it's between the 69th and 70th week, or it's between the middle of the 70th week and the 2nd half of that week. Verse 27 alone proves there is a gap somewhere since it is impossible, if Christ is meant per the one ending sacrifices in the middle of the week, that the remainder of that verse can be fulfilled without it involving any gaps. The way most non gappers try and get around this, they insist that not everything recorded in verse 27 is meaning during the 70th week.


Speaking of someone causing sacrifices to end, I guess per the following one should take this to mean Christ as well since it is basically the same thing the one in Daniel 9:27 is doing in the midst of the week.

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down(which sounds rather abominable to me)----and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So IOW, Daniel 8:11 tells us what this one is going to do, and that Daniel 9:27 tells us specifically when he is to do it.
But why continue wasting time debating any of this with others when others are not even wanting to at least use some common sense here, meaning in this particular case, and not meaning in general? The common sense I'm referring to here, Daniel 9:27 proves there is a gap somewhere in the 70 weeks, the fact that entire verse is meaning the 70th week.

You go ahead and use your own common sense to interpret scripture while I try to do what Paul says is needed to interpret scripture, which is by way of spiritual discernment given by the Holy Spirit. Your approach to interpreting scripture is not supported by scripture itself. In case you weren't aware, the Holy Spirit is not governed by human common sense.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

'b'riyth' H1285, means a compact, a covenant, a confederacy or a league. [league means a treaty or agreement]

It isn't normal for two people to make a covenant and in the case of Daniel 9:27, it is a peace agreement between the prince, referred to in the previous verse, as the invading prince and the many.
Also it will be a fixed term treaty, which God does not do. His New Covenant will be everlasting.

Obviously, no one who sees the covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27 as referring to the New Covenant believes that the New Covenant lasts only 7 years. It took 7 years to confirm or establish the New Covenant. The first half of the 70th week consisted of Christ's ministry up to His death, resurrection and ascension. The second half had to do with the gospel of Christ going out first to the Jews in the power of the Holy Spirit before later going out to the Gentiles, as we can read about in the book of Acts.

 

[keras]

When I mentioned the "twinkling of any eye" verse, I should have went back and read it again. It is speaking of the bodily resurrection of the dead and not conversion. The verses you mention in 1Thes 4 are likewise speaking of the resurrection of the dead.

Neither 1 Corinthians 15:52 or 1 Thess 4:17 are the 'bodily resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:50-56, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment after the Millennium and the faithful dead will be raised to spiritual immortality, along with those who are alive at that time. Only those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. The rest go into the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:11-15

1 Thess 4:15-17 is about the Return of Jesus, when only the dead martyrs, killed during the Great Trib, will be raised. Revelation 20:4
The living people of God, those who stood firm in their faith and endured during all the graphically prophesied events of the end times, will be gathered to where Jesus will reign from for the next 1000 years. Matthew 24:30-31

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Are Daniel's people the Jews, Israel, in a state of having been saved? No.

Ahem...Daniel people are all Elect in Christ, both Old and New Testament. First the Jews, then the Gentiles. Do you realize that Gentiles who are born again are automatically a Jew which qualifies to be Daniel's people! You premills are working too hard to divide God's people into two by keeping the Jews separated from the Gentiles so that you could apply Daniel 9:24 only to the ethnic Jews. Sad!

Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Is Jerusalem in a state of everlasting righteousness? No.

Wrong Jerusalem! It is Jerusalem made up of all Elect IN CHRIST, an everlasting Father! Christ is Jerusalem a beloved city. Not literal city! Selah!

Have the Jews repented of their transgression of having rejected Jesus ? No.

Only the remnants of Old Testament Jews repented, including the Gentiles. While the rest of the Jews remain are blind.

The 70 weeks are not complete.

Well, you are correct, for once. It won't be completed until the consummation which is the Second Coming.

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 has not taken place

The battle of Gog and Magog is taking place if the Lord reveals who they are to you. Sorry, it is not Russians nor armies with guns and missiles.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The idea is to stick to what is written in the text, and that there is zero written in the text in verses 25-27 that could possibly be meaning any of this that you said----"and the actual end of the week was AD34. The event that marks off the endpoint was the gospel going to the Gentiles as promised. (Acts 10)". But if I am wrong, then point out in verses 25-27 where anything written in them covers that period of time specifically? To show what I'm meaning, let's look at those texts.the blocks of text I just submitted do you see any of that involving an entire week, the fact you deny that all of verse 27 involves the entire week? Per your interpretation you can only produce half of that week, rather than all of it. Per your interpretation Daniel 9:25-27 is silent on what occurs in the last half of the 70th week, so you then need to add to the text things not present in the text.

Are you not adding things to the text by claiming that there is a gap? Sure you are. There's no indication anywhere that there would be a gap in the 70 weeks. But you believe that, anyway. It's silly to think that the prophecy would spell out every detail about its fulfillment.

Tell me what happened during week 43. I don't see that described anywhere. So, does that mean I can conclude that week 43 hasn't happened yet just because there aren't any specific details about it?

 

[keras]

Obviously, no one who sees the covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27 as referring to the New Covenant believes that the New Covenant lasts only 7 years. It took 7 years to confirm or establish the New Covenant. The first half of the 70th week consisted of Christ's ministry up to His death, resurrection and ascension. The second half had to do with the gospel of Christ going out first to the Jews in the power of the Holy Spirit before later going out to the Gentiles, as we can read about in the book of Acts.

I do not believe that the New Covenant is established yet.
The 6 tenets of it are not operational yet. We have the Promise of them, but it awaits until we Christians gather into all of the holy Land.

Your belief that the 70th 'week' was over in the 1st Century, ignores the many mentions of the halves of that week in Revelation; yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Thanks David for laying this out nice and logically.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Can the 3.5 year period of time you are referring to, that ends in 34 AD, be found within this block of text?

No, verse 25 refers to the first 7 weeks

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

Can the 3.5 year period of time you are referring to, that ends in 34 AD, be found within this block of text?

No, verse 26(a) refers to Christ’s death sometime after the silent years. (62 weeks)

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Can the 3.5 year period of time you are referring to, that ends in 34 AD, be found within this block of text?

No, verse 26(b) refers to the destruction by the soldiers of prince Titus.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Can the 3.5 year period of time you are referring to, that ends in 34 AD, be found within this block of text?

No, verse 27(b) refers to Christ ending the former method of atonement.

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Can the 3.5 year period of time you are referring to, that ends in 34 AD, be found within this block of text?

No, verse 27(c) refers to the continuation of animal atonement in contradiction of Christ’s finished work.

… you are assuming it is found in this block of text instead---"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.”

Yes, verse 27(a) refers to the entire 70th week from AD 27 to AD 34. So does verse 24 refer to the entire 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Neither 1 Corinthians 15:52 or 1 Thess 4:17 are the 'bodily resurrection of the dead.

Spiritual bodies are still bodies. So, those passages do speak of the bodily resurrection of the dead.

1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Obviously, no one who sees the covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27 as referring to the New Covenant believes that the New Covenant lasts only 7 years.

I am glad that you see the covenant that Christ confirmed is the New Covenant. But it was not 7 years in making. Christ confirmed it instantly for HIS PEOPLE which obviously extended to His Elect long past your 7 years or 70AD, as long as there will be a daily sacrifice for it.

It took 7 years to confirm or establish the New Covenant.

Not true. The 70th week become a strength the exact moment Christ died.

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

That's the Word of the Living God telling us that the New Covenant had no strength until Christ died on the cross, cut off for our sins. And then was it made strong! Christ Confirmed or made strong the Covenant for many in His blood. It's a promise or agreement to hand over an inheritance to Israel. The Messiah had to die in order for us to receive the inheritance in that will. This He did at the cross. He confirmed the covenant with many (NOT ALL) for this one week. The Covenant is like a will. Like today, when someone dies, there will become a force. Right there! Not waiting 7 years for the will to mature. Selah!

The first half of the 70th week consisted of Christ's ministry up to His death, resurrection and ascension.

First half? No. The 70th week is not divided into "half." It says "after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off. It is not "half" of the whole 70th week. The only "half" being spoke of is when Christ has caused the sacrifice and the obliation to cease "IF" you know what daily sacrifice is being spoken of. Not Jewish animal sacrifice system. See my reference post above.

The second half had to do with the gospel of Christ going out first to the Jews in the power of the Holy Spirit before later going out to the Gentiles, as we can read about in the book of Acts.

Yes, the 70th week applies to the New Testament Congregation, first the Jews then the Gentiles. This covers the whole New Testament period. And after 1,260 spiritual days, when Christ has finished sealing all of His people in the congregation, Satan was loosened that ended the end of daily sacrifice and the abomination of desolation be set up in the New Testament congregation.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I do not believe that the New Covenant is established yet.

I find that to be completely mind boggling for any Christian to believe this. Do you somehow not understand that the New Covenant has to do with Christ's shed blood for our sins and how He has provided the way to salvation and the forgiveness of sins? Without the New Covenant being established, you are not saved. And the Old Covenant would still be in effect as well. Do you think the Old Covenant is still in effect?

Your belief that the 70th 'week' was over in the 1st Century, ignores the many mentions of the halves of that week in Revelation; yet to be fulfilled.

I don't ignore anything. None of those references have anything to do with Daniel's prophecy. Where does the book of Revelation talk about the fulfillment of the things listed in Daniel 9:24? Where does it say anything about a covenant (or peace treaty) being confirmed?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I am glad that you see the covenant that Christ confirmed is the New Covenant. But it was not 7 years in making. Christ confirmed it instantly for HIS PEOPLE which obviously extended to His Elect long past your 7 years or 70AD, as long as there will be a daily sacrifice for it.

I have no interest in arguing with you about this. I'm content that we agree that the New Covenant was confirmed long ago.

First half? No. The 70th week is not divided into "half." It says "after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off. It is not "half" of the whole 70th week. The only "half" being spoke of is when Christ has caused the sacrifice and the obliation to cease "IF" you know what daily sacrifice is being spoken of. Not Jewish animal sacrifice system. See my reference post above.

Can you try to tone it down a couple notches? Your tough guy, bully act and Mr. Authoritarian way of speaking doesn't fly with me. While I agree with a good amount of what you believe, I don't agree with everything. I don't like the way you talk to people, as if you know everything and can't possibly be wrong about anything.

I believe it is referring to animal sacrifices and nothing you've said changes my mind about that.