About Sabbath

[dqhall]

As already pointed out on "page 1" and 2 of this thread as follows



And here we can see it from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19






No doubt essential services were also done - like temple guards and guards at the gates on Sabbath - even in the OT without any complaints from God or His prophets in that regard.

How many bulls, doves and sheep will you need to slaughter to please the God of your Hebrew covenant sealed by circumcision?

 

[tall73]

Whether pro-Sabbath observance or anti-Sabbath observance, the passages make it clear that sabbatismos means “sabbath observance” and not just a “sabbath-like rest.”

As already noted it doesn't mean resting on "the" sabbath. It means a sabbath rest.

However, there is more usage to examine that you have not referenced.

Origen 1


Origen in His commentary on the Gospel of John, book 2, 27:

Thus was he born to make ready for the Lord a people fit for Him, at the end of the Covenant now grown old, which is the end of the Sabbatic period.

Just as a side note he goes on to say:

Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection.

Which could be said to place him in the camp that does not think sacredness of Sunday was somehow transferred or derived from Sabbath.

In this quote he uses sabbatismos to refer to the totality of sabbath keeping coming to an end as the result of the covenant grown old.

Literally it would read at the end of the covenant grown old, which is the bent of Sabbath observance

In this case "bent" is being used metaphorically for "end" from what I am reading in various works. But either way, we have here a literal sabbath keeping coming to an end, but it is standing in for the whole practice, not just a single instance.

Origen 2

Origen On Prayer, 17
When a man has had vision of these things and has given thought to a week of ages with intent to contemplate a kind of holy sabbath—keeping and a month of ages to see God’s holy new moon, and a year of ages to survey the feasts of the year when every male must appear before the Lord God, and the corresponding years of so many ages to discern the seventh holy year, and seven weekly years of ages to sing a hymn to the Enactor of Laws so great, how can he after such consideration cavil over what is the merest fraction of an hour in the day of such an age, instead of doing everything to become, through his preparation here, worthy of obtaining the needful bread and to receive it while it is today and daily, what daily means being already clear from the foregoing explanations.

Here Origin relates the word to a week of ages sabbath keeping, which is getting a bit beyond the usual literal sabbath keeping.


More to come....

 

[tall73]

Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich give the lexical definition for sabbatismos as “Sabbath observance” or the more metaphorical “Sabbath kind of rest.” The first definition comes from the way the word is actually used in early Greek literature.

The metaphorical sense, such as the secondary lexical definition of Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich and the definition in Strong’s Concordance (“a sabbath keeping”), is a theological interpretion of the word rather than what it means in general use by Greek-speaking writers.

Origen 3

Origin Fragment of Psalms

The following usage shows a figurative application.

a sabbath rest, that is in rest and ceasing from sin

He said in the context that those who want to be justified by law have fallen from grace. But those who obtain faith in Christ if we understood Sabbath observance figuratively as rest and ceasing from sin then it is helpful to lead us to Christ.

 

[pasifika]

Origen 3

Origin Fragment of Psalms

The following usage shows a figurative application.

View attachment 298168

a sabbath rest, that is in rest and ceasing from sin

He said in the context that those who want to be justified by law have fallen from grace. But those who obtain faith in Christ if we understood Sabbath observance figuratively as rest and ceasing from sin then it is helpful to lead us to Christ.

Thank you @tall73...I think that is main theme of Hebrews 4 regarding a Sabbath rest from slavery to Sin..and it doesn't happen only one day a week but only one in a lifetime for believer..

Eg,

when God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days He completed His work and rest on the 7th day so He didn't go back and do the same work again...(7th day Sabbath )

So compare that to our work ("to believe the Gospel") Hebrews 3 which in turn free us from Sin. That work for us cannot be complete on the 7th day of the week because it takes years (or lifetime) for anyone to believe in the Gospel and free from Sin..this is what "Today" Sabbath Rest is..

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We already looked at Justin Martyr and the Apostolic Constitutions.

I have now located the additional ones.


Plutarch:


“O that our Greeks should found such barbarous rites, as tumbling in mire, rolling themselves in dunghills, keeping of Sabbaths [sabbatismous] monstrous prostrations, long and obstinate sittings in a place, and vile and abject adorations


The use is again anarthrous. And the translation for sabbatismos is fine, but you could also just render it "sabbath rests". But this is a plural, and has no indication that it is limited to the seventh-day Sabbath at all. It could apply to any or all the various Sabbath keepings.


Epiphanius:



Sabbath observance, circumcision, and all other Jewish and Samaritan observances


Again an anarthrous use.


Martyrdom of Peter and Paul:


Now here we have a different usage, with the article. And note how the translation you posted renders it:


because be has destroyed all the bulwarks of our law; for he has prevented the keeping of Sabbaths [sabbatismos] and new moons


This is an example of what I mentioned earlier. Even if you have an article it doesn't make it "the keeping of the sabbath". It makes it "the keeping of a sabbath". The later context does spell out the weekly sabbath is at least included. But there is nothing inherent in the word itself that indicates the weekly, even with the article. Because the nature of the noun form is "a sabbath."

This is all only distraction no one is arguing (strawman). I have never disagreed to the above or the last few posts you provided, so why are you claiming am arguing with what you claiming here and in similar posts you have provided on the same subject matter? It is not what I am talking about in my posts and not what I have been sharing here. You seem to be trying to make the argument about something I am not arguing for or against. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what I am posting.

 

[tall73]

Some highlights from Chrysostom's comments on Hebrews 3-4, from a Greek speaker closer to the time. He mentions the rest as "sabbath-keeping" but not the seventh day.

When David then, he says, speaking at a later period, and after these events, after that generation of men, said, Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, that you may not suffer the same things which your forefathers did, and be deprived of the Rest; he evidently [said this] as of some [future] rest. For if they had received their Rest (he says) why does He again say to them, Today if you will hear His voice harden not your hearts, as your fathers did? What other rest then is there, except the kingdom of Heaven, of which the Sabbath was an image and type?

What then does he say? Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. And see how he has summed up the whole argument. He swore, says he, to those former ones, that they should not enter into the rest, and they did not enter in. Then long after their time discoursing to the Jews, he says, Harden not your hearts, as your fathers, showing that there is another rest. For of Palestine we have not to speak: for they were already in possession of it. Nor can he be speaking of the seventh; for surely he was not discoursing about that which had taken place long before. It follows therefore that he hints at some other, that which is rest indeed.

And well did he conclude the argument. For he said not rest but Sabbath-keeping; calling the kingdom Sabbath-keeping, by the appropriate name, and that which they rejoiced in and were attracted by.

For that is indeed rest, where pain, sorrow and sighing are fled away Isaiah 35:10: where there are neither cares, nor labors, nor struggle, nor fear stunning and shaking the soul; but only that fear of God which is full of delight. There is not, In the sweat of your face you shall eat your bread, nor thorns and thistles Genesis 3:19; no longer, In sorrow you shall bring forth children, and to your husband shall be your desire and he shall rule over you. Genesis 3:16 All is peace, joy, gladness, pleasure, goodness, gentleness. There is no jealousy, nor envy, no sickness, no death whether of the body, or that of the soul. There is no darkness nor night; all [is] day, all light, all things are bright. It is not possible to be weary, it is not possible to be satiated: we shall always persevere in the desire of good things. Homily on Hebrews, John Chrysostom, Arch-bishop of Constantinople.

 

[tall73]

This is all only distraction no one is arguing (strawman). I have never disagreed to the above or the last few posts you provided, so why are you claiming am arguing with what you claiming here and in similar posts you have provided on the same subject matter? It is not what I am talking about in my posts and not what I have been sharing here. You seem to be trying to make the argument about something I am not arguing for or against. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what I am posting.

No, I don't thinks so. Origen makes it plain the word can certainly mean a metaphorical sabbath-like rest, which you earlier contested.

And Chrysostom, Greek speaking Arch Bishop of Constantinople, spells out the same when speaking of Hebrews 3-4.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, I don't thinks so. Origen makes it plain the word can certainly mean a metaphorical sabbath-like rest, which you earlier contested.
And Chrysostom, Greek speaking Arch Bishop of Constantinople, spells out the same when speaking of Hebrews 3-4.

I am sorry I do not agree with that interpretation or application. The only reason I provided other reference outside of the bible was to show that there was consensus that the meaning of Sabbatismos was widely understood to mean "Sabbath keeping" or "Sabbath observance". I might tidy up a few misunderstandings in the next posts. Of course it is your choice to believe the theology or teachings of extra biblical references outside of the bible if you want to. I have only provided mine to show consensus of meaning and use and application of Sabbatismos which has application to Sabbath keeping and Sabbath Observance in most of it's uses inside and outside of the bible.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am not arguing against myself. I am arguing against your statements such as thiso you now agree that sabbatismos has application of keeping the sabbath through resting? It is incorrect to say keeping "the" sabbath.

Sorry, once again I respectfully disagree with your claims as your trying to make many arguments no one is making with you. Perhaps I did not use the best choice of words and some of the references I used may have helped to provide misunderstanding. If that is the case I will try and add more clarification here. I think enough evidence has been provided throughout this thread proving beyond doubt that Hebrews 4:9 is in reference to “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance” that is left behind for all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word. Just wanting to summarise a few points and add some clarification to help discussions.

1, As posted from the beginning, I have never argued for definite article to sabbatismos and an indefinite argument does not change the overall context and interpretation of Hebrews 4:1-9. I have never made any arguments that sabbatismos does not mean "a sabbath rest" and have already said it does.

It also means "a sabbath observance" or "a keeping of a sabbath through resting" already shown through the Greek. I have provided some Syriac translations that use "a keeping of the Sabbath" (Aramaic and Lasma) and the Historical use of sabbatizo in the Septuagint which always translates to sabbath keeping or sabbath observance through resting.

I have never said the words used in Hebrews 4:9 has definite article and an indefinite article to "a Sabbath keeping through resting does not change the word meanings or definitions. I have only provided the Aramiac or Syriac translations that both use "the Sabbath" translation in support with other evidence that is supportive how how the believers at that time interpreted Sabbatismos as "sabbath keeping".

2, The literal Greek meaning of Sabbatismos is to keeping a sabbath through resting. I have never made arguments in support of "a" Sabbath vs "the" Sabbath or Sabbath rest vs keeping a Sabbath or keeping the Sabbath and stated all views from the beginning. So this is only a distraction to my original post. None of the above effects the contexts already provided in Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11. Which defines our rest through believing and following God's Word in Hebrews 4:1:3 and God's rest that those who believe and follow Gods' Word enter into in Hebrews 4:3-4 that defines God's rest as the seventh day Sabbath referring back to Genesis 2:1-3.

3. The literal meaning of sabbatismos from various Greek dictionaries, Interlinear and Lexicons have been provided showing the literal Greek meanings of Sabbatismos to Sabbath observance or keeping of a/the Sabbath (I am not arguing a/the or definite or indefinite article just showing the different reference below and application to “Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance with collective evidence” (through resting) as shown in...

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)


GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

LIDDEL/SCOTT/JONES GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON - G4520
σαββατισμός
Σαββᾰτ-ισμός, ὁ, a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Heb 4:9, cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

STRONGS LEXICON
So ἄρα (ara) Conjunction Strong's Greek 686: Then, therefore, since. Probably from airo; a particle denoting an inference more or less decisive. there remains ἀπολείπεται (apoleipetai) Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 620: From apo and leipo; to leave behind; by implication, to forsake. a Sabbath rest σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos) Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people. of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός
σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

W. E. VINE, GREEK DICTIONARY
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. (Note the rest of Vines comments is not the Greek it is his opinion)

more to follow...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Continued from points 1-3

4, Aramaic translations were also provided that support the Greek definitions provide above from to show the Syriac language meanings here

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Lamsa Bible
Hebrews 4:9 It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

The Syriac translations also of course showing a different view of "sabbatismos" and an understanding of the words use at that time to “Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance”. Here is a section of an interesting paper by Morgan 2016 on the Syriac understanding and use of Sabbatismos below.

"The original Syriac of the verse, “ מדין קים הו למשבתו לעמה דאלהא ” (read it right to left), clarifies sabbatismos further. A translated transliteration is: “MDYN (so then) QYM HU (it remains) LaMSheBaTU (to keep the Sabbath)11 LEMH (to the people) DALHA (of God).” A translated transliteration of the Greek of Hebrews 4:9 reads: “ara (so then) apoleipetai (remains) sabbatismos (Sabbath observance) tō laō (to the people) tou theou (of God).” From this we see that the Syriac and the Greek are very similar. Several scholars see the Greek as a translation of the Syriac. (See, for example, the evidence cited by Glenn David Bauscher in footnote 10.) Even if it is the other way around, it tells us what early Eastern believers understood the verse to mean. The Syriac word LaMSheBaTU in this verse is not a noun, but a verb. It begins with LaM-, which adds “to” before the verb. The rest of the verb means “keep the Sabbath.” Murdock’s translation of the Syriac is: “Therefore it is established, that the people of God are to have a sabbath.” Lamsa’s translation is more literal: “It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath.” What is remarkable about Lamsa’s translation is that he observed Sunday. So his translation is not because of his theological bent. Bauscher’s interlinear confirms Lamsa’s translation. (See his Plain English version, p. 260.) Victor Alexander’s interpretation inserts words that do not exist in the original language: “For if then Eashoa were to give them rest after He had called it, He would not have said that there would be another Day, Therefore, He rose to be the Sabbath for the nation of God” (Heb. 4:8, 9, Victor Alexander’s modern English translation of the Peshitta Aramaic New Testament, emphasis supplied). Alexander’s interpretation is not a proper translation of the verse.12 Cumulative evidence supports Lamsa’s translation. Bauscher’s translation of the Syriac shows the context for and the connection between verses 4 and 9.” (K. Morgan; 2016, Sabbatismos in Hebrews)

More to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Continued from points 1-4

5. Historical use of the root verb to sabbatismos which is sabbatizo that is used in the Septuagint has also been provided which is only ever used and applied to “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance” as shown in Exodus 16:30; Leviticus 23:32; 26:34 and 2 Chronicles 36:21. This same consensus of meaning has also already been shown to the meaning and application of sabbatismos, which also appears in other writings, both Christian and non-Christian with some being posted in this thread earlier in reference to “sabbath keeping or sabbath observance” (e.g. fPlutarch, De Superstitione 3, in Moralia 2. 166a; Justin (the Martyr), Dialog with Trypho 23.3; Epiphanius, The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis 30.2.2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitution 2.36.2; Origen, Celsus 5.59; Origen, Commentarii in Evangelium Joannis 2.33.198; Origen, Prayer 27.16; Origen, Selecta in Exodum 12.289.7; Origen, Excerpta in Psalmos 17.144.31).

*Note I am not saying I believe or support anything in these extra biblical references. I have only provided them to show application and known meaning of Sabbatismos to "Sabbath keeping" or Sabbath observance" outside of the bible and the old and new testament and it's use.

One of the ways to establish the meaning of a word is to look at the context of other uses of it in writings from the period. All these other uses of the word have the meaning "Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance". It is interesting as picked up by others that while the author of Hebrews declares the Levitical priesthood and services as “abolished” *Hebrews 10:9, “obsolete” and “ready to vanish away” in Hebrews 8:13, he explicitly teaches that a “Sabbath keeping is left behind for the people of God” in Hebrews 4:9 which are for those who believe and follow Gods’ Word *Hebrews 4:1-3.

6. The meaning of every word in the bible is not separated from context and interpretation is directly linked and tied into the scripture and chapter contexts of what is written before. It is the context here that is being argued linked to the Greek meaning of sabbatismos. For example, even if I was to only use the "Sabbath rest" interpretation of sabbatismos it also does not effect the context that I have already provided in Hebrews 4:1-5 showing that there are two rests being discussed here. One being to our rest that we receive by believing and following God's Word from Hebrews 4:1-3 and Gods rest/My rest/ His rest that is defined as the seventh day Sabbath from the foundation of the world in Hebrews 4:3-5 that those who believe Gods' Word (the gospel) enter into by faith.

Little more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Continued from points 1-6 above

7, The “Sabbath rest” or “Sabbath keeping” that remains for the people of God from Hebrews 4:9 linked into the contexts of those who believe and those who do not believe as shown in Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:1-9 show that we cannot enter into God’s seventh day Sabbath rest *Hebrews 4:3-4 unless we first believe and follow God’s Word (gospel rest) *Hebrews 4:1-3. This links in very nicely with God’s promises in Ezekiel 20:12 and Ezekiel 20:20 of God’s perpetual Sabbath covenant to His people in Exodus 31:16 that show that Gods’ Sabbath remains as a sign to His people that we worship the true God of creation and it is this same God that created all things in Heaven and earth that sanctifies (saves) us from our sins (the gospel rest).

8, It makes absolutely no sense to claim that sabbath keeping is not the meaning in Hebrews 4:9 when the Greek word shows σαββατισμός being used in verse 9. It that was true the Greek word κατάπαυσις σάββατον would have been used rather than σαββατισμός. This would be more consistent with the rest of the chapters use of κατάπαυσις in Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4; 8; 10; 11 but it doesn't. Clearly a different meaning is intended by using σαββατισμός to what was written previously. This is why historical use was provided in the earlier posts that show the root word sabbatizo in the Septuagint of the old testament shows the only time this word is ever used is to Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance. Even outside of the scriptures historical use of sabbatismos is also, applied and used for sabbath keeping or sabbath observance.

So to make a claim that this was not intended use is not biblical or historical as evidence has been shown that is supportive of the use of sabbatismos being applied to sabbath keeping and sabbath observance all through my posts. Once again this very same interpretation agreeing to the scripture contexts to God’s rest that is defined as the seventh day Sabbath in Hebrews 4:3-4 that Gods’ people enter into as they believe and follow Gods’ Word (the gospel) *Hebrews 4:1-3. Furthermore the Syriac interpretation is also supported in the Greek in the Aramaic and Lasma translations as "Sabbath keeping"

………………

SUMMARY: The above evidence has only been provided to show that Sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9 means that “Sabbath keeping” or Sabbath observance remains for the people of God. This supports the chapter contexts of Hebrews 3:12-19 to Hebrews 4:1-11. These scriptures are a warning to us as Gods’ people that if we do not believe and follow Gods’ Word (the gospel) then we cannot enter into God’s seventh day Sabbath rest. We which do believe enter into God’s rest by keeping the Sabbath that remains for the people of God.

 

[tall73]

5.59; Origen, Commentarii in Evangelium Joannis 2.33.198; Origen, Prayer 27.16; Origen, Selecta in Exodum 12.289.7; Origen, Excerpta in Psalmos 17.144.31).

*Note I am not saying I believe or support anything in these extra biblical references. I have only provided them to show application and known meaning of Sabbatismos to "Sabbath keeping" or Sabbath observance" outside of the bible and the old and new testament and it's use.

One of the ways to establish the meaning of a word is to look at the context of other uses of it in writings from the period.

I assume you are working your way through the posts. Origen does not use them that way. And Chrysostom does not, while speaking of Hebrews 4.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I assume you are working your way through the posts. Origen does not use them that way. And Chrysostom does not, while speaking of the Hebrews 4.

Sorry I am not interested in an interpretation of the scriptures outside of the bible. In my extra biblical Christian and non Christian references they were only provided not in support of what the authors interpret or believe but for application and historical use to show word meaning and application of Sabbatismos which from the Septuagint in the old testament and outside sources (Christian and non Christian) is mostly understood to mean Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance which both agree with the Greek and Syriac word meanings of Sabbatismos used in Hebrews 4:9 which agree to chapter contexts of Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:11 that Sabbath keeping remains for the people of God. That is those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Sabbatismos in non-Christian as well as Christian literature is always used literally meaning Sabbath observance, although sometimes pejoratively, with the exception of Origen who uses the term twice figuratively.

P.S This will probably be my last post for a little while as I have some real life work to complete.

Thanks all.

 

[tall73]

Of course this is referring to the weekly Sabbath as this is the context of Hebrews 4:9. If we follow Hebrews 3:8-19 to Hebrews 4:1-3; 5-8 the reason God’s people did not enter into God’s rest is because of sin and unbelief;

I spelled out the context at length. And yes, they failed due to sin and unbelief.

And He is warning them not to fall away, and to exhort each other "today" so that they do not fall short of the rest that they are to seek to enter.

God ceased His creative works from the foundation of the world and rested from them. And we are to rest from our works. It is talking about salvation.

Hence, the emphasis on not turning away "today" and encouraging each other while it is "today".

Heb 4:7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

There is still a promised land to enter. And it is not the weekly Sabbath. But it is a sabbath-like rest, entering God's rest from His works, as we rest from our works.

Sorry I am not interested in an interpretation of the scriptures outside of the bible. In my extra biblical Christian and non Christian references they were only provided not in support of what the authors interpret or believe but for application and historical use to show word meaning and application of Sabbatismos which from the Septuagint in the old testament and and outside sources is mostly to Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance which both agree with the Greek and Syriac word meanings of Sabbatismos used in Hebrews 4:9 which agree to chapter contexts of Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:11 that Sabbath keeping remains for the people of God. That is those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Sabbatismos in non-Christian as well as Christian literature is always used literally meaning Sabbath observance, although sometimes pejoratively, with the exception of Origen who uses the term twice figuratively.

You missed the point. I quoted Chrysostom because he directly comments about sabbatismos, in this very passage, and takes it as a spiritual rest other than the 7th day.

He noted the indication of "sabbath-keeping." But not the 7th day.

So that is three references, but this one is even more pivotal because it is looking at the very same instance from the point of a Greek speaking Christian.

Now since you don't care for Chrysostom you can hear it from the SDA Bible Commentary:

Regarding the meaning of sabbatismos in general:

Accordingly, the fundamental idea expressed by sabbizo in the LXX is that of rest or ceasing from labor or other activity. Hence usage of the related Greek and Hebrew words implies that the noun sabbatismos may denote either the literal Sabbath "rest" or simply "rest" or "cessation" in a more general sense. Thus, a linguistic study of the word sabbatismos in Heb. 4:9 leaves it uncertain whether the weekly Sabbath "rest" is here referred to, or simply "rest or "cessation" in a general sense.

And regarding the passage itself, here are some highlights from the SDA Bible commentary:

The writer of Hebrews appears to use katapausis and sabbatismos more or less synonymously.

Because Joshua could not lead Israel into spiritual "rest" (katapausis, v. 8), a sabbatismos (v. 9) remains for Christians. Consistency seems to require that what remains be the same as what was there to begin with. Because Joshua did not lead literal Israel into spiritual "rest" would be no reason for the Christian to observe the Sabbath.

From vs. 1, 6 it is clear that what remains for the people of God in NT times is a katapausis; in v. 9 it is said that a sabbatismos remains.

The fact that in the LXX, the Bible of the NT church, Katapauo (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 20:11) and sabbatizo (Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32) are used interchangeably to denote the seventh-day Sabbath, would tend to preclude the suggestion that the writer of Hebrews intended to make a distinction between the noun forms of these words in Hebrews 3; 4.

Furthermore, it may be observed that the section of the book of Hebrews consisting of chs. 3 and 4 opened with an invitation to "consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (ch. 3:1), and closes with an earnest plea to "come boldly" before Him in order to "obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (ch. 4:16). What relationship a protracted argument designed to prove Sabbath observance remains an obligation to the Christian church might have to the declared theme of chs. 3 and 4--the ministry of Christ as our great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary--is obscure indeed.

Now I imagine that will not convince you either. But then they refer to two Ellen White comments:

"The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace" (EGW Supplementary Material on Heb. 4:9)

I will quote a bit more of the context for the second than the SDA Bible commentary does:

And thus the mountain from which the words of benediction were spoken came to be known as the mount of blessing. But it was not upon Gerizim that the words were spoken which have come as a benediction to a sinning and sorrowing world. Israel fell short of the high ideal which had been set before her. Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith. No longer is Gerizim known as the mount of the Beatitudes, but that unnamed mountain beside the Lake of Gennesaret, where Jesus spoke the words of blessing to His disciples and the multitude.
Ellen White--Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing Chapter 1

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I spelled out the context at length. And yes, they failed due to sin and unbelief.

And He is warning them not to fall away, and to exhort each other "today" so that they do not fall short of the rest that they are to seek to enter.

God ceased His creative works from the foundation of the world and rested from them. And we are to rest from our works. It is talking about salvation.

Hence, the emphasis on not turning away "today" and encouraging each other while it is "today".

Heb 4:7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

There is still a promised land to enter. And it is not the weekly Sabbath. But it is a sabbath-like rest, entering God's rest from His works, as we rest from our works.



You missed the point. I quoted Chrysostom because he directly comments about sabbatismos, in this very passage, and takes it as a spiritual rest other than the 7th day.

He noted the indication of "sabbath-keeping." But not the 7th day.

So that is three references, but this one is even more pivotal because it is looking at the very same instance from the point of a Greek speaking Christian.

Now since you don't care for Chrysostom you can hear it from the SDA Bible Commentary:

Regarding the meaning of sabbatismos in general:

Accordingly, the fundamental idea expressed by sabbizo in the LXX is that of rest or ceasing from labor or other activity. Hence usage of the related Greek and Hebrew words implies that the noun sabbatismos may denote either the literal Sabbath "rest" or simply "rest" or "cessation" in a more general sense. Thus, a linguistic study of the word sabbatismos in Heb. 4:9 leaves it uncertain whether the weekly Sabbath "rest" is here referred to, or simply "rest or "cessation" in a general sense.

And regarding the passage itself, here are some highlights from the SDA Bible commentary:

The writer of Hebrews appears to use katapausis and sabbatismos more or less synonymously.

Because Joshua could not lead Israel into spiritual "rest" (katapausis, v. 8), a sabbatismos (v. 9) remains for Christians. Consistency seems to require that what remains be the same as what was there to begin with. Because Joshua did not lead literal Israel into spiritual "rest" would be no reason for the Christian to observe the Sabbath.

From vs. 1, 6 it is clear that what remains for the people of God in NT times is a katapausis; in v. 9 it is said that a sabbatismos remains.

The fact that in the LXX, the Bible of the NT church, Katapauo (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 20:11) and sabbatizo (Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32) are used interchangeably to denote the seventh-day Sabbath, would tend to preclude the suggestion that the writer of Hebrews intended to make a distinction between the noun forms of these words in Hebrews 3; 4.

Furthermore, it may be observed that the section of the book of Hebrews consisting of chs. 3 and 4 opened with an invitation to "consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (ch. 3:1), and closes with an earnest plea to "come boldly" before Him in order to "obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (ch. 4:16). What relationship a protracted argument designed to prove Sabbath observance remains an obligation to the Christian church might have to the declared theme of chs. 3 and 4--the ministry of Christ as our great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary--is obscure indeed.

Now I imagine that will not convince you either. But then they refer to two Ellen White comments:

"The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace" (EGW Supplementary Material on Heb. 4:9)

I will quote a bit more of the context for the second than the SDA Bible commentary does:

And thus the mountain from which the words of benediction were spoken came to be known as the mount of blessing. But it was not upon Gerizim that the words were spoken which have come as a benediction to a sinning and sorrowing world. Israel fell short of the high ideal which had been set before her. Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith. No longer is Gerizim known as the mount of the Beatitudes, but that unnamed mountain beside the Lake of Gennesaret, where Jesus spoke the words of blessing to His disciples and the multitude.
Ellen White--Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing Chapter 1

Hello, correct, I do not agree with the commentary for the reasons outlined in points 1-8 in the previous posts. Yes I agree with the SOP quotes. They are supportive of what is being shared here. No one enters into God's rest without first believing and following what God's Word says (gospel rest). The Sabbath and believing and following Gods' Word are not separate from each other. It is the Word of God (see point 7 above in previous posts). Thank you for the discussion but it seems I am a little busy at the moment with work. We may have to chat more latter.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1- The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1- Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

Jesus' own words ought to be included in the mix: "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."

There is no doubt in my mind that the original Sabbath is Saturday, but that the church for some historical reasons began to switch to Sunday.

Then the question becomes whether the Sabbath is THE seventh day or A seventh day. Since the Hebrew term shabbat just means to rest from work, it suggests that it doesn't matter which day it is. That is echoed by the early Christians who met every day or did not consider one day more important than another.

So while I am happy to agree that Saturday is Sabbath (in line with Jews and SDA), I also think that our only requirements as Christians is to observe a day of rest spending time with Jesus and that can be any day - whichever is convenient for you and your church. For most that is Sunday.

If you are convinced that Saturday is the Sabbath and that is the day you should be spending with God then do it, but also remember not to cease meeting with other Christians (who may be meeting on Sundays). It will do you no harm to have two Sabbaths, though it might crimp your social life.

 

[Danthemailman]

Save it. You tried this with me and others here

If honestly answering a question about one's beliefs gets you banned from a "Christian" forum, then what does that say about one's beliefs?

 

[Danthemailman]

As already noted it doesn't mean resting on "the" sabbath. It means a sabbath rest.

However, there is more usage to examine that you have not referenced.

Origen 1


Origen in His commentary on the Gospel of John, book 2, 27:

View attachment 298163

Thus was he born to make ready for the Lord a people fit for Him, at the end of the Covenant now grown old, which is the end of the Sabbatic period.

Just as a side note he goes on to say:

Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection.

Which could be said to place him in the camp that does not think sacredness of Sunday was somehow transferred or derived from Sabbath.

In this quote he uses sabbatismos to refer to the totality of sabbath keeping coming to an end as the result of the covenant grown old.

Literally it would read at the end of the covenant grown old, which is the bent of Sabbath observance

In this case "bent" is being used metaphorically for "end" from what I am reading in various works. But either way, we have here a literal sabbath keeping coming to an end, but it is standing in for the whole practice, not just a single instance.

Origen 2

View attachment 298167
Origen On Prayer, 17
When a man has had vision of these things and has given thought to a week of ages with intent to contemplate a kind of holy sabbath—keeping and a month of ages to see God’s holy new moon, and a year of ages to survey the feasts of the year when every male must appear before the Lord God, and the corresponding years of so many ages to discern the seventh holy year, and seven weekly years of ages to sing a hymn to the Enactor of Laws so great, how can he after such consideration cavil over what is the merest fraction of an hour in the day of such an age, instead of doing everything to become, through his preparation here, worthy of obtaining the needful bread and to receive it while it is today and daily, what daily means being already clear from the foregoing explanations.

Here Origin relates the word to a week of ages sabbath keeping, which is getting a bit beyond the usual literal sabbath keeping.


More to come....

In regards to Hebrews 4:9, Sabbatismos is only used once in the Bible and is properly translated "sabbath rest," yet in context in Hebrews 4, we can see the author of Hebrews is attaching to the sabbath a new and expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, which is otherwise used to denote the weekly sabbath day under the law.

*Had the writer of Hebrews wanted to indicate the 7th day sabbath, he would have used sabbaton, the standard word for sabbath. But he didn't. The whole context is about rest, so sabbatismos must be understood as "sabbath rest" in an expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, as WE Vine's correctly points out.

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. That person has entered in God’s rest through Jesus "rests from his own work" (in contrast with law keeping) as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of Creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work. The "sabbatismos" rest enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly sabbath under the law, is found only in Christ and not Law keeping.

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance, the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Christians find "sabbatismos" rest in Christ's finished work on the cross through faith in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, which is what it means to "believe" the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Rest for the Christian is entered into by ceasing from one’s "works" of trying to earn salvation though keeping the law, namely, "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) Paul explains that the Jewish holy days, including the weekly sabbath, were merely a “shadow” which pointed to Christ; therefore, Christians should not feel obligated to observe them once the "reality" has come.

 

[HIM]

If honestly answering a question about one's beliefs gets you banned from a "Christian" forum, then what does that say about one's beliefs?

I don’t know what you’re talking about. But Ask Jesus He was more than banned.