About Sabbath

[tall73]

Amazing post yet you spam the thread with a multitude of one sided very long posts and say to the OP who has been a Christian for 5 months read and digest?

You mean actually look at the texts? Yes, because that is the only way to know what they say.

And I spelled out which texts were strong for the pro-sabbath side, and why.

You may add to that if you like.

 

[BobRyan]

Come on folks. The guy has been a Christian for five months, and is discouraged over this difficult decision. He doesn't have a lot of background. And it is a complicated subject.

Yes - that is why I have kept to a very simple solution getting to "square 1". Just take a look at where "both sides agree" (and I show where that is in my relatively short post on page 1) and "then start from there".
Today at 9:53 AM #11

Because some Bible details are so incredibly obvious that both sides will admit to them.

 

[tall73]

Yes - that is why I have kept to a very simple solution getting to "square 1". Just take a look at where "both sides agree" (and I show where that is in my relatively short post) and then start from there.

Because some Bible details are so incredibly obvious that both sides will admit to them.

He asked for only Bible.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You mean actually look at the texts? Yes, because that is the only way to know what the say.

And I spelled out which texts were strong for the pro-sabbath side, and why.

You may add to that if you like.

No I mean what I said earlier you just spammed the thread with very long one sided posts saying your wanting a discussion of both views but your spamming does not allow discussion of both view points so essentially promoting a one sided view that does not allow discussion.

 

[tall73]

No I mean what I said earlier spam the thread with very long one sided posts to a 5 month old christian and say read and digest. Without allowing a right of reply and investigation into the premise claims and interpretations of the scriptures you provided.

I didn't say don't reply or investigate. I said I am not going to respond to the back and forth until we lay out the texts.

Feel free to add what you want.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I didn't say don't reply or investigate. I said I am not going to respond to the back and forth until we lay out the texts.

Feel free to add what you want.

So you believe it is a good thing to spam a thread with one sided long posts to a 5 month old Christian and say read and digest without allowing him to know if what you are saying is true or not true while saying to him simply read and digest?

Anyhow I have to go out for now have a nice day all..

 

[tall73]

So you believe it is a good thing to spam a thread with one sided long posts to a 5 month old Christian and say read and digest without allowing him to know if what you are saying is true or not true?

I have presented arguments on both sides. You have presented only one side. I will let the readers decide who is being one-sided.

And yes, I made long posts discussing the various Scriptures that are part of the debate. How do you think he is going to know they are true without prayer, reading the texts, and asking the Lord to guide him?

So I am pointing out the various texts that are usually brought up, and discussing why each side brings them up.

You should add anything you wish to. I am suggesting we address the texts, rather than each other.

 

[pasifika]

So you believe it is a good thing to spam a thread with one sided long posts to a 5 month old Christian and say read and digest without allowing him to know if what you are saying is true or not true?

Anyhow I have to go out for now have a nice day all..

@tall73 has already mentioned in his previous post that @fatherforgivethem will decide given all the post from the two sides of the Sabbath debate..don't worry someone will plant a seed but God is the one who grows it..

 

[John Mullally]

SDAs are taught that all other churches are part of "babylon", false churches. Why would you hang your hat on what those false churches say or do?

As a new Christian many years ago, I remember being around groups that viewed their denomination (Local Church) as having a lock on all scriptural truth with their special prophet and viewed all others as being false churches. After hearing enough of that my gut reaction was: Run Away!

 

[fatherforgivethem]

Do you love Jesus Christ of Nazareth?

Yes definitely.

IMO, don't worry about religious rules, christianity is all about life transformation.

When I turned into a Christian, everything was "easy". I mean, I thought it was all about loving, accepting and believing in Jesus and God, loving your neighbor (which branches out into everything else) and not committing the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), etc.

But there are so many more things. I'm getting anxious about this everyday since I wake up until late night when I sleep. I keep questioning myself about 90% of what I do during the day, if I can watch movies, play games, watch series, read books, listening to music and more recently this subject about Sabbath. I'm so afraid of going to hell because all of it.

Looks like how much more I dive into learning religions, faiths, Christianism, the more lost I get on what should I do or shouldn't.



Just like someone said in one of the replies above, Jesus asked His Father that we could be one. But what is the Truth, the place where we can reunite as one? There are so many "ones" around the world. How can one born in this world discover the correct denomination in an ocean of hundreds, maybe thousands of them?

Don't get me wrong, no matter what happens I'll still believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible and still love them.

 

[tall73]

While I'm writing this, I'm constantly thinking that the more I dive deep and try to learn Christianism, faith... the more I think it's a minefield. If I do one slip, one misstep and choose the wrong "followings", I'm eternally condemned to hell. Even if I love and believe in Jesus and God with all my heart, try my best to be a good person to others, if I choose the wrong one and follow it I'm doomed.

1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

Php 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[fatherforgivethem]

You are not in a minefield. And the Father is not trying to trip you up.



1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

Sure, I love this passage. It is one of my favorites in the entire Bible.

But if salvation and going to Heaven was only it on this passage, we would not have hundreds, thousands differents denominations that follow different things. For example, in SDA point of view, every single denomination that don't follow Sabbath is condemned eternally to hell. Even if they do what is said on this passage you mentioned.

And that doesn't apply only for SDA. It applies for every denomination that follows different things between them. I don't know every single of them, but if it wasn't like it, we would not have so many of them.

 

[tall73]

For example, in SDA point of view, every single denomination that don't follow Sabbath is condemned eternally to hell. Even if they do what is said on this passage you mentioned.

Actually, Adventists don't believe those in hell burn eternally, but that is another thread.

Did Jesus say He would send you to hell if you got something wrong, or did somebody else?

There is no way around the current situation of many denominations. But you still have to trust the Lord to lead you. And Adventists would also agree that He leads all of His children, whether in the Adventist church or not. If you are seeking you will find, according to Jesus. And He said that in regards to giving His Spirit, not to finding the right denomination. So just trust Him, and trust the Spirit which He says will lead you into truth. If that involves sending you to whatever denomination He wants, even better.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have presented arguments on both sides. You have presented only one side.

I am sorry I respectfully disagree. You have not presented both sides of the argument at all. The truth however is you have presented your side of the argument while simply not allowing the other side of the argument to be heard while claiming your doing all this for us while giving us no say in what has been shared in your posts. Seems like a one sided discussion in my view when you do not know for example what my view is while spamming the thread with a one sided view of how you think it is and how it should be.

 

[tall73]

I am sorry I respectfully disagree. You have not presented both sides of the argument at all. The truth however is you have presented your side of the argument while simply not allowing the other side of the argument to be presented while claiming your doing all this for us.

I said present anything you think needs presenting. I just asked folks not to do the usual slights against each other.

So if you feel you haven't presented something that you ought to, go ahead.

 

[tall73]

Moving to the other texts you mentioned,

Romans 14
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.


5 One person esteems a day above another; another esteems every day. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe.

He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”


12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in a brother’s way.


The overall idea of the text is that we are not to judge people over disputable matters.

There is some dispute about what the specific examples are discussing. The one who eats only vegetables may well refer to those who will not eat meat that has been sacrificed to idols, and so avoids eating meat that could have been so sacrificed. I Corinthians chapter 8 discusses these issues if you are not familiar.

Some think it is talking about a partial fast.

The larger question is whether the food portion and the days portion are linked, or just two separate disputable matters. If it is a fast the two could be linked if some think you should fast certain days. In the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee the pharisee says:

Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.

There was a practice of fasting on certain days, so some think that the two issues are related and the days would be fast days.

Another possibility regarding the days is that some think the text is talking about the pilgrim feasts in the law where the people would appear before the Lord three times each year.

The text does not specify which days. So it is not as specific as saying some observe the Sabbath, and some do not. So it is hard to base a rejection of the Sabbath on just this text.

On the other hand, some say it doesn't specify days because it is all encompassing, that you don't need to worry about holy days at all, since some esteem one above another, and some esteem all. One observes to the Lord, and one doesn't observe, but also does so to the Lord.

 

[tall73]

Duplicate

 

[Yarddog]

I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1- The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1- Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

I'm not going to try to add to the debate but instead tell you that none of us can understand scripture without God's Holy Spirit revealing it to them, so, you may want to back away from this thread and ask God.

You were given God's Spirit when you were baptized. This means that God lives within you. Take some alone time and seek God's will for you and live it.

 

[Cis.jd]

Yes definitely.

When I turned into a Christian, everything was "easy". I mean, I thought it was all about loving, accepting and believing in Jesus and God, loving your neighbor (which branches out into everything else) and not committing the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), etc.

Yes! That's pretty much it.. there are those who have their politics involved, but what you wrote here is what matters.

 

[Freed Man]

I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1- The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1- Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

You don't have to keep the sabbath in order to be saved. End of matter. Nothing else to say.