WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

[LoveGodsWord]

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Part 1/2)

From the scriptures it was shown God's grace is linked to MERCY and PEACE and TRUTH because all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death. *Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23. But God so loved our world that he sent his only SON to die on our behalf for the sins that we all have committed in order to bring us back to GOD.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 8:3-4 [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

God's grace is shown that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Romans 5:6-10 [6], For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[7], For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. [8], But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [9], Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. [10], For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This leads us to the next question.

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

If we are all sinners in need of a Savior for all of us have sinned according to Romans 3:23. If we do not know that we are sinners will how can we see God's grace? Notice this next question from Jesus to the Pharisees that thought they were righteous in God's eyes.

Matthew 7:12-13 [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

and again...

MATTHEW 5:20 [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

According to the scriptures Jesus came to magnify the law from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds or is greater than the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the the kingdom of heaven *Matthew 5:20. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil begins in the heart *Mark 7:21; John 5:42; Jeremiah 18:12 which is why we need to be born again *John 3:3-7 into God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 and receive a new one *Ezekiel 36:24-27.

Jesus says that it is the breaking of any one of God's 10 commandments from the heart is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28. Jesus magnified the law to the inside out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and that sin originates in our heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the new covenant promise and need to be born again by Faith in God's Word for God's salvation is to be set free from the sins we have become a slave to (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *John 8:31-36; Romans 6:1-23

If we are not born again *John 3:3-7 into God's nee covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 John 2:3-4; John 3:3-7. All those who knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin according to James *James 2:10-11. All those who knowingly continue in unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom according to Paul in *Hebrews 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Righteousness comes from love because love is the fulfilling of God's Law in all those who believe and follow God's Word and is the very expression of what love is according to Romans 13:8-10. He that does not love does not know God for God is love according to John in 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are born again have a new heart to love and follow God *1 John 4:7. This is the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.

According to God's Word those who are born again to love do not practice sin (breaking God's Commandments) *1 John 3:4-9. This is why John finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 John 5:2-3 and is why Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments *John 14:15. Unless we are born again under God's new covenant promise to give us a new heart to love we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven *John 3:3-7 as we need to be changed from the from the inside out and God's salvation is from the inside out.

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

Absolutely not! "They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." (Matthew 9:12-13). The purpose of God's law is to show us that we have all sinned and are all sinners in need of God's salvation from the great Physician. God's law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. This also includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments according to Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:9

We will go more into this question in PART 2 of this post....

God bless.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Can God be gracious to a newborn infant?

Anyone feel free to answer.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Can God be gracious to a newborn infant?

Anyone feel free to answer.

-CryptoLutheran

Absolutely, here you go Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17.

 

[Nathan@work]

I am sorry we will agree to disagree. Even in this post I do not know what your talking about to be honest. My whole argument is the the Greek Word gospel means good news. It does not seem you have any scriptures for your view. Of course you are free to believe as you wish I have only provided God's Word here in this OP and Gods' Word is not mine but Gods. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them.

I never agree to disagree.

The definition of the Greek word is good news.

The meaning of Gospel varies in its use.

How many Nathan’s do you know of? Our name has the same definition, but it has a different meaning for each of us.

I am not the same person as another man named Nathan, even though we share the same word for a name.

You shouldn’t make nothing of the word, as if to try and water down it’s meaning. There is a reason it is used versus just saying ‘good news’.

Just like you have a name and I do, they mean something more than the definition of them.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Absolutely, here you go Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17.

Neither of those passages say anything about grace or infants.

Now, allow me to be clear: God does show His mercy to newborn infants.

I'm just not convinced by your answer that you believe that.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HIM]

The Law was a paidagogos, an instrument of punishment for our waywardness. It taught us how we were evil, showing us we were evil, condemning us in our sin. The Law did not lead us to Christ as a friend introducing a friend; but as God's wrath poured out against sin. The Law driving us to our knees in grief, sorrow, humility, and repentance over our sin does not itself bring us to Jesus; but it is there in our condemnation that the Gospel finds us, and God wraps us up in the white robes of His righteousness. That though our sins be as crimson, yet shall we be white as snow. Therefore God freely justifies the unjust.

Go ahead, read through Galatians ch. 3.

The Law was not a gentle tutor, but a harsh disciplinarian until Christ. Having nothing to do with faith (Galatians 3:12), the Law serves only to tell us what to do (or what we ought not do) and shows us our transgression of the Law, that we are indeed sinners condemned and held in contempt under the Law.

The Law was our disciplinarian until Christ; the harsh beatings we endure under the Law is not God's good news, grace, or love poured out on sinners. That is what the Gospel is, the soothing, good word of God to sinners of His love, compassion, and unconditional mercy toward us all in Jesus Christ our Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

Galatians is a letter that needs to be understood in it's full context. You are not alone in your misrepresenting it.

 

[Nathan@work]

There is no grace without law as God's law leads to Gods' Grace according to the scriptures *Galatians 3:22-25.

Galatians 3:24-25 (ESV) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

Once under grace, no longer under law.

 

[HIM]

Neither of those passages say anything about grace or infants.

Now, allow me to be clear: God does show His mercy to newborn infants.

I'm just not convinced by your answer that you believe that.

-CryptoLutheran

At this point I don't think you or Nathan are serious.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I never agree to disagree.

The definition of the Greek word is good news.

The meaning of Gospel varies in its use.

How many Nathan’s do you know of? Our name has the same definition, but it has a different meaning for each of us.

I am not the same person as another man named Nathan, even though we share the same word for a name.

You shouldn’t make nothing of the word, as if to try and water down it’s meaning. There is a reason it is used versus just saying ‘good news’.

Just like you have a name and I do, they mean something more than the definition of them.

Already addressed in detail through the scriptures showing why your claims are not true and posted here linked. If you disagree your welcome to address the linked post and the scriptures provided that disagree with you.

 

[HIM]

Galatians 3:24-25 (ESV) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

Once under grace, no longer under law.

You should stop quoting Galatians. You don't know what you are sharing. You are misrepresenting the context of the letter

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Galatians 3:24-25 (ESV) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

That is what I just said to you earlier. The law teaches us that we are all sinners in need of God's salvation leading us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.

 

[HIM]

At this point I don't think you or Nathan are serious.

I really believe this to be so.

 

[ViaCrucis]

At this point I don't think you or Nathan are serious.

I don't know that I could be anymore serious.

To preach a false gospel, as is happening in this thread, is something that the Apostle St. Paul calls anathema--accursed. That's pretty serious.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't know that I could be anymore serious.

To preach a false gospel, as is happening in this thread, is something that the Apostle St. Paul calls anathema--accursed. That's pretty serious.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes I agree. We have already discussed this false gospel here in this thread linked.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You should stop quoting Galatians. You don't know what you are sharing. You are misrepresenting the context of the letter

I remember many years ago now being in a debate with a friend over a particular subject in the Bible. In order to be as prepared as I could be, I spent days pouring over Scripture, looking at context, grammar, looking to as many sources I could on the subject.

When I presented my arguments, I cited Scripture, I provided cross-references, delved into the depths of the text as much as I could. When provided with counter-arguments, I responded with my own, in the same way.

Our debate ended when my friend shut his Bible closed, told me I was taking everything out of context, didn't explain to me how I was taking it out of context, and then just walked away.

Now, I'm not saying I am some grand debater--I'm not--but I make an earnest attempt to read, comprehend, and then read and study more so as to properly make sense of Scripture. I make a conscious effort to not just read something and then assume my first impulse about its meaning is true--I go and check my work against what others who are miles above me in almost every way have to say on the subject.

I develop a confidence about the meaning of the text when I learn that I'm not just making something up, when I am in fact reading it the way it has been read for centuries, even millennia.

When I first read in Scripture that there was a resurrection of the dead--something that had never really been taught to me growing up--I was very confused. I thought maybe I was misunderstanding what the Bible was saying. And then to my total surprise, it turned out that literally EVERY Christian throughout history believed in the resurrection of the dead, and that it has always been a fundamental part of the Christian faith. So how come nobody told me? How come when I talked to my parents they didn't know what I was talking about?

If I am in error over the meaning of Scripture, then I should be corrected. I should be better educated, and I freely invite and encourage anyone to challenge me. But don't just tell me I'm wrong, tell me how I'm wrong, and why. And then provide corroborating evidence that backs up your understanding.

When I read Galatians and talk about Galatians here, I'm not just speaking my personal opinion. This isn't my private interpretation. And I'm not just parroting what I was raised to believe or taught to think.

I'm working with literally hundreds of years of biblical scholarship and exegesis on my side. That is the only reason I have any confidence at all for what I'm saying.

I have no confidence in myself. But I do have confidence in the truth-bearing witness of God's people through history.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HIM]

I don't know that I could be anymore serious.

To preach a false gospel, as is happening in this thread, is something that the Apostle St. Paul calls anathema--accursed. That's pretty serious.

-CryptoLutheran

Really? You asked a question in regards to A baby 's salvation and LovesGodWord shared James. He said, " He that knows to good and does it not to Him it is sin". And then you go on to tell him that none of the verses he shared have anything to do with your question and you doubt he believes babies fall under God's grace.

Now you tell me you could not be any more serious?

The rules of this forum prevent from telling you what you really need to hear.

Enough said. Galatians is the topic. I imagine you will respond to what is said here but unless you respond to the last post on Galatians there is nothing further coming from here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I remember many years ago now being in a debate with a friend over a particular subject in the Bible. In order to be as prepared as I could be, I spent days pouring over Scripture, looking at context, grammar, looking to as many sources I could on the subject.

When I presented my arguments, I cited Scripture, I provided cross-references, delved into the depths of the text as much as I could. When provided with counter-arguments, I responded with my own, in the same way.

Our debate ended when my friend shut his Bible closed, told me I was taking everything out of context, didn't explain to me how I was taking it out of context, and then just walked away.

Now, I'm not saying I am some grand debater--I'm not--but I make an earnest attempt to read, comprehend, and then read and study more so as to properly make sense of Scripture. I make a conscious effort to not just read something and then assume my first impulse about its meaning is true--I go and check my work against what others who are miles above me in almost every way have to say on the subject.

I develop a confidence about the meaning of the text when I learn that I'm not just making something up, when I am in fact reading it the way it has been read for centuries, even millennia.

When I first read in Scripture that there was a resurrection of the dead--something that had never really been taught to me growing up--I was very confused. I thought maybe I was misunderstanding what the Bible was saying. And then to my total surprise, it turned out that literally EVERY Christian throughout history believed in the resurrection of the dead, and that it has always been a fundamental part of the Christian faith. So how come nobody told me? How come when I talked to my parents they didn't know what I was talking about?

If I am in error over the meaning of Scripture, then I should be corrected. I should be better educated, and I freely invite and encourage anyone to challenge me. But don't just tell me I'm wrong, tell me how I'm wrong, and why. And then provide corroborating evidence that backs up your understanding.

When I read Galatians and talk about Galatians here, I'm not just speaking my personal opinion. This isn't my private interpretation. And I'm not just parroting what I was raised to believe or taught to think.

I'm working with literally hundreds of years of biblical scholarship and exegesis on my side. That is the only reason I have any confidence at all for what I'm saying.

I have no confidence in myself. But I do have confidence in the truth-bearing witness of God's people through history.

-CryptoLutheran

Some people want to be corrected according to the scriptures and other harden their hearts *Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. Jesus said he spoke to the people in parables because of the words of Isaiah 6:9-10. Jesus quoted Isaiah to those who refused to hear His Word in Matthew 13:13-15 as did Paul in Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. So in order to receive God's correction we need to pray for God's Spirit to guide us and teach is and be teachable like the faithful Bareans who studied the scriptures daily to see if these things are true or not true.

 

[HIM]

I remember many years ago now being in a debate with a friend over a particular subject in the Bible. In order to be as prepared as I could be, I spent days pouring over Scripture, looking at context, grammar, looking to as many sources I could on the subject.

When I presented my arguments, I cited Scripture, I provided cross-references, delved into the depths of the text as much as I could. When provided with counter-arguments, I responded with my own, in the same way.

Our debate ended when my friend shut his Bible closed, told me I was taking everything out of context, didn't explain to me how I was taking it out of context, and then just walked away.

Now, I'm not saying I am some grand debater--I'm not--but I make an earnest attempt to read, comprehend, and then read and study more so as to properly make sense of Scripture. I make a conscious effort to not just read something and then assume my first impulse about its meaning is true--I go and check my work against what others who are miles above me in almost every way have to say on the subject.

I develop a confidence about the meaning of the text when I learn that I'm not just making something up, when I am in fact reading it the way it has been read for centuries, even millennia.

When I first read in Scripture that there was a resurrection of the dead--something that had never really been taught to me growing up--I was very confused. I thought maybe I was misunderstanding what the Bible was saying. And then to my total surprise, it turned out that literally EVERY Christian throughout history believed in the resurrection of the dead, and that it has always been a fundamental part of the Christian faith. So how come nobody told me? How come when I talked to my parents they didn't know what I was talking about?

If I am in error over the meaning of Scripture, then I should be corrected. I should be better educated, and I freely invite and encourage anyone to challenge me. But don't just tell me I'm wrong, tell me how I'm wrong, and why. And then provide corroborating evidence that backs up your understanding.

When I read Galatians and talk about Galatians here, I'm not just speaking my personal opinion. This isn't my private interpretation. And I'm not just parroting what I was raised to believe or taught to think.

I'm working with literally hundreds of years of biblical scholarship and exegesis on my side. That is the only reason I have any confidence at all for what I'm saying.

I have no confidence in myself. But I do have confidence in the truth-bearing witness of God's people through history.

-CryptoLutheran

Galatians please. Please show how chapter 3 fits into the context of the whole letter.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ON THE TRUE GOSPEL AND THE FALSE GOSPEL?

1. What is the true gospel according to the scriptures?
2. What is the false gospel according to the scriptures?

Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4

May God bless you all as you seek Him through His Word.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Really? You asked a question in regards to A baby 's salvation and LovesGodWord shared James. He said, " He that knows to good and does it not to Him it is sin". And then you go on to tell him that none of the verses he shared have anything to do with your question and you doubt he believes babies fall under God's grace.

Now you tell me you could not be any more serious?

The rules of this forum prevent from telling you what you really need to hear.

Enough said. Galatians is the topic. I imagine you will respond to what is said here but unless you respond to the last post on Galatians there is nothing further coming from here.

My position is that newborn infants are sinners and need the mercy of God. And God graciously brings infants into His kingdom through the power of His grace, by the preaching of the Gospel and the Holy Sacraments.

When an infant is brought to the fount of Baptism, there is God's grace present, physically present. The meeting of God's word with the water (Ephesians 5:26). And the baptized infant receives the very mercy of God that cleanses them of all unrighteousness, and grants them new birth as a child of God and heir of the kingdom.

This isn't problematic for me, because I don't believe that the Law plays any role in our salvation. I don't need to explain to an infant that they are a sinner, an infant does not need to have a fully cognizant understanding of the Atonement in order to be saved.

All that is needed for salvation is what God freely gives us in the Gospel

Therefore salvation is freely and wonderfully for all, the least and greatest, small and the big, infants and old men. It doesn't matter.

Christ came to save sinners, and He does that. He does that all by Himself.

Now maybe you don't believe that children are sinners, though Scripture says all have sinned, not just some. And Scripture says that through one man's disobedience sin and death came to all men, not just some. So, it is a very simple matter of fact that each and every single one of us entered into this world as sinners, condemned under the Law.

Now, if one believes that infants aren't sinners, and that we only become sinners later in life, well two things: 1) They're wrong for the above mentioned reasons and 2) That's the heresy of Pelagianism. Or rather, Pelagianism is the heresy that man is born in the same state of innocence as Adam was before the Fall, and therefore even though unlikely, it is entirely possible for a human being to live righteously in accordance with God's commandments. Indeed, Pelagius even taught that the common "grace" to man is His commandments, as Pelagius believed that through self-effort one can indeed attain righteousness, the Law was a grace that aided man in righteousness. That's Pelagianism.

This was condemned many, many centuries ago in the Church, and rightfully so.

But if what the Apostle says is true, that all are indeed sinful sinners that sin and that we are all all, equally, held under the condemnation of the Law--whether Jew or Gentile--then it follows that God's grace is for everyone.

Grace comes to us, we don't come to grace.

God comes down.
God always comes down.

-CryptoLutheran