Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church orthodox

[Gregory Thompson]

Do SDA even agree with the Nicene/Trinitarian theology of the historic Church?

I was curious about that also.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only one Gospel
Gal 3:8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is that Gospel

And it is unchanged in the NT according to Heb 8:6-12

I'm more of a dual covenant theology kind of guy.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm more of a dual covenant theology kind of guy.

But you do agree that the verbatim quote in Heb 8:6-12 of the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant shows it to be unchanged in the NT - right?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But you do agree that the verbatim quote in Heb 8:6-12 of the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant shows it to be unchanged in the NT - right?

I understand how the NT writings quote the OT writings, yes.

 

[BobRyan]

They certainty seem to depart from historic Orthodoxy in their embrace of certain Ideas/practices. The emphasis on the Sabbath is clearly Jewish in origin,

1. Paul preached in the synagogue every Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - in fact believing gentiles and Jews since it was "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4.
2. All the Apostles were Jewish.
3. There are over a 100 denominations today in that group of Sabbath keepers.
4. All major Christian denominations in the world today have their scholarship affirming the TEN as included in the moral law of God that is written on the heart.

as is their practice of eating Kosher.

I think there is a form of Kosher that requires an orthodox Rabbi be involved. We do not do that. We follow Lev 11

Do SDA even agree with the Nicene/Trinitarian theology of the historic Church?

Only to the extent of "three persons of the Godhead"

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God in three Persons.

All knowing, all powerful, from everlasting to everlasting... no beginning and no end.

So then in John 17 - Jesus is not "praying to Himself" but rather to God the Father.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree there is only one gospel, which one gospel should we believe then, there are a lot of denominations you know.

In my response I point to the New Covenant as that one Gospel.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In my response I point to the New Covenant as that one Gospel.

I would agree that our current covenant is the one written of in Jeremiah, the one unlike the previous one established with Moses and the wilderness walkers.

 

[BobRyan]

However, in following the mosaic law after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the writer of Galatians says this means Christ died in vain.

Not correct -- one may choose not to take God's name in vain even after becoming a Christian

And Paul affirms the moral law of God which also includes the Ten that have the 5th commandment as "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

Jesus became the basis of the new covenant, replacing the function of the law.

That works better as a direct quote from scripture rather than an ad hoc statement

Strawman.
I was actually discussing the methodology of knowing what is right and wrong. Not what is right and wrong.
i.e. learning from the Holy Spirit instead of only the written text.
The Holy Spirit is supposed to be the primary guide into all truth.

That works as a difference between being lost vs being saved - but it does not work for OT vs NT.

Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah are standing in glory with Christ - before the cross fully saved under the "one gospel" that Jeremiah specifies in Jer 31:31-34 - the one Gospel has forgiveness of sins, the born again new-heart and new-mind and adoption into the family of God.

 

[BobRyan]

I would agree that our current covenant is the one written of in Jeremiah, the one unlike the previous one established with Moses and the wilderness walkers.

The only covenant that works under the Gospel - is the one that Jeremiah states - and Moses also speaks of it. This is the only way that Moses can stand in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross.

As Christ said - "Abraham saw my day and was glad".

Heb 4:1 "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"
1 Cor 10:3-4 "they all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that Rock was Christ"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not correct -- one may choose not to take God's name in vain even after becoming a Christian

And Paul affirms the moral law of God which also includes the Ten that have the 5th commandment as "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2



That works better as a direct quote from scripture rather than an ad hoc statement



That works as a difference between being lost vs being saved - but it does not work for OT vs NT.

Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah are standing in glory with Christ - before the cross fully saved under the "one gospel" that Jeremiah specifies in Jer 31:31-34 - the one Gospel has forgiveness of sins, the born again new-heart and new-mind and adoption into the family of God.

It appears you're either attempting to misunderstand me on purpose, or our premise of understanding is so far apart it just intrinsically results in dualling monologues. (pretty sure it's just a misunderstanding though.)

Whatever the case, thank you for sharing, God bless.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The only covenant that works under the Gospel - is the one that Jeremiah states - and Moses also speaks of it. This is the only way that Moses can stand in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross.

As Christ said - "Abraham saw my day and was glad".

Christ also said many prophets and holy men wanted to hear what you hear when speaking to the apostles.

It just doesn't add up.

In general, if I read what you say, and a scripture is brought back to remembrance that contradicts what you're saying - I just dismiss it. Same goes for sermons and other similar things.

 

[BobRyan]

It appears you're either attempting to misunderstand me on purpose,

you specified a detail that works for the lost vs saved condition - but not as a division between OT and NT.. The Holy Spirit and the work of Christ to cause the born-again experience is not "a nice to have" not optional to the one and only Gospel - it is in fact the only way it works.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

you specified a detail that works for the lost vs saved condition - but not as a division between OT and NT.. The Holy Spirit and the work of Christ to cause the born-again experience is not "a nice to have" not optional to the one and only Gospel - it is in fact the only way it works.

Hmm, implying I don't have the Holy Spirit and am not born again because I disagree with your bible interpretation. That's pretty suspect.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ also said many prophets and holy men wanted to hear what you hear when speaking to the apostles.

It just doesn't add up.

try this -

1 Pet 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

Even Abraham saw it according to Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Hmm, implying I don't have the Holy Spirit and am not born again because I disagree with your bible interpretation. That's pretty suspect.

I did not say that , I did not imply that, and I have no idea how you inferred it.

I am simply saying that the mechanism you identified works well when describing lost vs saved... but is not very useful for describing OT vs NT.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

1. Paul preached in the synagogue every Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - in fact believing gentiles and Jews since it was "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4.
2. All the Apostles were Jewish.
3. There are over a 100 denominations today in that group of Sabbath keepers.
4. All major Christian denominations in the world today have their scholarship affirming the TEN as included in the moral law of God that is written on the heart.

Your reasons for justifying your practice don't mean you have deviated less from the historic Church. If anything it only means there's a restorationist character to the SDA and suspect SDA do not put much stock into the Church Fathers, the history of the Church or the councils.

I think there is a form of Kosher that requires an orthodox Rabbi be involved. We do not do that. We follow Lev 11

You abstain from Pork and most other foods Jews also abstain from right? If so it appears to be a distinction without a difference. An attempt to have a Christian dietary law then, whatever you choose to call it.

Only to the extent of "three persons of the Godhead"

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
One God in three Persons.

All knowing, all powerful, from everlasting to everlasting... no beginning and no end.

So then in John 17 - Jesus is not "praying to Himself" but rather to God the Father.

This sounds Orthodox on the face of it, but how much of it is rooted in historic ideas about the Trinity as talked about by the Fathers? Athanasius, Basil and the like? How does the SDA regard such teachers and defenders of Orthodoxy?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

try this -

1 Pet 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

Even Abraham saw it according to Christ.

This reminds me of debates of how Peter is not the rock, your interpretation frequency is very similar to Catholics.

Just as an explanation of why I cannot understand what you're saying.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I did not say that , I did not imply that, and I have no idea how you inferred it.

I am simply saying that the mechanism you identified works well when describing lost vs saved... but is not very useful for describing OT vs NT.

I have a unique spiritual function in the body of Christ, so I don't expect to reach agreement over anything except the bare bone essentials.

 

[BobRyan]

They certainty seem to depart from historic Orthodoxy in their embrace of certain Ideas/practices. The emphasis on the Sabbath is clearly Jewish in origin,

1. Paul preached in the synagogue every Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - in fact believing gentiles and Jews since it was "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4.
2. All the Apostles were Jewish.
3. There are over a 100 denominations today in that group of Sabbath keepers.
4. All major Christian denominations in the world today have their scholarship affirming the TEN as included in the moral law of God that is written on the heart.

===============

Your reasons for justifying your practice don't mean you have deviated less from the historic Church. If anything it only means there's a restorationist character to the SDA

You have free will you can ignore the bible details given above and believe as you wish. This is not an exercise to get you to change your view.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
I think there is a form of Kosher that requires an orthodox Rabbi be involved. We do not do that.

We follow Lev 11

You abstain from Pork and most other foods Jews also abstain from right? If so it appears to be a distinction without a difference. An attempt to have a Christian dietary law

An attempt to read and accept the Word of God is a better way to say it. Lev 11.

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Lev 11 - some rules about not eating rat sandwiches.

yep that is pretty much the idea.