Creationists: Explain your understanding of microevolution and macroevolution

[SelfSim]

If your son asks for a ladder so he can play on the roof, and you say NO; and he tries to get on the roof by climbing a tree and falls and hurts himself, is it your fault?

Your post#310, 'Theology: items 1-3' contains objectively untestable concepts, whereas 'Science items 1-3' contains the necessary elements to objectively test out. Thus, the two aren't directly analagous.

Your post #310 is therefore a failure for demonstrating your original point (which has now shifted).

 

[AV1611VET]

Partly his for climbing it, and partly mine for not making sure that he followed my instructions. But that's dodging the issue.

The reason why the Hindenburg used hydrogen instead of helium was because the US controlled the exports of helium and they refused to sell it to Germany because they didn't want Germany to break article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles which states: "The armed forces of Germany must not include any military or naval air forces ... No dirigible shall be kept."
The Nazi Party, in control of Germany during the construction of the Hindenburg, made sure that the zeppelin was built, regardless of the engineers not having the stocks of helium needed so they had to use hydrogen or they were out of a job or worse.
Politics, plain and simple.

So if the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

 

[AV1611VET]

Your post#310, 'Theology: items 1-3' contains objectively untestable concepts, whereas 'Science items 1-3' contains the necessary elements to objectively test out. Thus, the two aren't directly analagous.

Your post #310 is therefore a failure for demonstrating your original point (which has now shifted).

I hear ya.

 

[SelfSim]

So if the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

You have some kind of crystal ball to make your point then?

 

[SelfSim]

I hear ya.

.. (but rarely ever listening though) ..

 

[AV1611VET]

You have some kind of crystal ball to make your point then?

I believe my point is called a "Catch-22."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So if the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

But that's the nub; the Hindenburg wasn't a zeppelin used by either the military or air force of Germany, it was a private company(ish. The company who had the Hindenburg built was owned by Herman Goerring but was also owned by the company that built, the German Air Ministry and Lufthanza) not a national military, so it would have been a private sale to a private company. But the US refused the sale.

You can try and argue whatever way you want it go until you're blue in the face, but it does boil down to politics in the end, along with your smug fixation on using disasters to try and make scientists look bad for no reason other than what seems like an incredibly petty grudge.

 

[AV1611VET]

But that's the nub; the Hindenburg wasn't a zeppelin used by either the military or air force of Germany,

Warden, I'll ask again, because I think I just made a good point.

If the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Warden, I'll ask again, because I think I just made a good point.

If the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

But they weren't and wouldn't. The Hindenburg was a privately owned, commercial zeppelin, not a military aircraft.

 

[AV1611VET]

But they weren't and wouldn't. The Hindenburg was a privately owned, commercial zeppelin, not a military aircraft.

Okay -- have a good day.

 

[SelfSim]

But they weren't and wouldn't.

That was before Trumpism, right?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That was before Trumpism, right?

I honestly don't care for any of that.

 

[SelfSim]

I honestly don't care for any of that.

Caring about that real phenomenon is an important first step in stomping it out .. (along with its cohort - ie a willing ignorance of science).

Caring for it, is a consequence of ignorance itself.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Caring about that real phenomenon is an important first step in stomping it out .. (along with its cohort - ie a willing ignorance of science).

Caring for it, is a consequence of ignorance itself.

No, I just don't care about Trump, Trumpism or anything do with the guy. I'm just done with the whole mess of his, the mess about him and everything with American politics right now.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

Why should you? You have BoJo and Brexit.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Warden, I'll ask again, because I think I just made a good point.

If the U.S. would have sold it to them ... against U.S. policy ... and they would have used it to break Article 198 of the Treaty of Versailles, then what?

WW2 may have started earlier? Perhaps preparations for war in the "allied" countries would have started earlier? US may have joined in rather than sit back and watch? Aircraft development wouldn't have progressed so fast? Who knows.....

 

[Speedwell]

Politics didn't put hydrogen in vessel that was made for helium.

Neither did science.

 

[AV1611VET]

Neither did science.

Point taken.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

WW2 may have started earlier? Perhaps preparations for war in the "allied" countries would have started earlier? US may have joined in rather than sit back and watch? Aircraft development wouldn't have progressed so fast? Who knows.....

It's that all countries by this point had found that zeppelins were now worthless in warfare due to the advent to monoplane fighter aircraft and multi-engine bomber aircraft.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

It's that all countries by this point had found that zeppelins were now worthless in warfare due to the advent to monoplane fighter aircraft and multi-engine bomber aircraft.

As I said in an earlier post, the Hindenburg disaster led to Germany abandoning airships and concentrating on aircraft. That led to the early dominance of the German Luftwaffe and the development of large bombers by the allies. So in answer to the question from @AV1611VET "how many lives did the US embargo save?" the answer is, arguably, that it cost thousands of lives.