Why Am I Eating a Pork Chop?

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BobRyan

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Judaism = no bacon
Islam = no bacon

Was Noah a Jew or a Muslim in your POV?

Gen 7:Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. 2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth.
 
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Religiot

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Not so much my love of swine as my dislike of people removing Scripture and replacing it with their own hand-rolled dogma and then proclaiming the result blob to be the Word of the Lord. So maybe it's just my dislike to dishonesty, intellectual and otherwise, layered on top of arrogance and seasoned with sanctimony, hold the bacon.
The quadruple-down! --I must say, I'm starting to become a fan.

Again, the only one of us in this conversation, that has indeed, omitted scripture from their conclusion, is you!

Continuing to falsely accuse me of what you are actually doing, cannot alter the facts: reality won't change, man, just because you insist on emotionally asserting the same chant.

This isn't a Disney film for hog lovers, man: you've actually gotta prove your claim, otherwise, you're just another heckler, with nothing new to say.
 
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atpollard

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The New Covenant -- is it for you or "just Jews"?

Heb 8:7 "“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,"

Rom 2:26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.
Acts 15:1-35 ... the Jerusalem Council rendered a decision on the need for Gentiles to follow the Law of Moses (as the Judaisers wanted). For Paul’s opinion, see Galatians 5:12
 
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Jipsah

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Really? Yet mine stands on what is actually written, but yours on an emotional assertion.
Ah, so y'all have excised Acts 10 from your bible! Well, it was the logical thing to do.

The irony of your doubling down on accusing me of what you're actually doing, is very entertaining, but also very dishonest: I'm the one actually proving by the scriptures what the vision meant, by citing Peter's very understanding of it; yet you are contradicting Peter's own understanding, simply by assertion.
Ah, proving what it meant! That's the ticket right there, innit? If Scripture says runs counter to your sect's dogma, then that can't be what it really means, now can it? So now the necessity is to remove the offensive bits that say something other than what your dogma requires it to mean. So since Acts 10 explicitly says something that contradicts your dogma, and which St. Peter quite correctly inferred to also mean with a belief that your sect happens to agree with, you simply act as though part you don't like doesn't actually mean what it explicitly says, or you pretend it isnt there at all.
When called on this bit of verbal legerdemain, you opt for the old reliable ad hominem, as witness:
I get it, you're a pork lover
Yesirree, compelling stuff right there. Makes me want to run headlong to the nearest SDA branch and sign up.
 
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atpollard

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Was Noah a Jew or a Muslim in your POV?
You do understand that eating bacon is not MANDATORY.
I am not attempting to claim that it is a sacrament necessary for salvation (like you think meeting on Saturday is). Eating BACON is merely permitted and delicious.
 
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Jipsah

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Acts 15:1-35 ... the Jerusalem Council rendered a decision on the need for Gentiles to follow the Law of Moses (as the Judaisers wanted). For Paul’s opinion, see Galatians 5:12
The SDAs apparently believe that the Council got it wrong.
 
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Religiot

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Wait, have you lot removed Acts 10 from your canon altogether? I guess that would make your position more easily defensible.
LOL!

Man, unlike you, I actually use the entire chapter of Acts 10... c'mon, man, truly, swine can't really mean that much to you, can it?

I mean really: I grew up eating pork chops and pork rinds, and hot dogs, and all that stuff, but I never, for the life of me, found it so great as to cause me to reconsider my faith; I mean never, not even close; and I've had it made perfectly, and it was delicious, but man, I just don't get it with y'all: God says no, but y'all say nope. I am truly impressed.

And then, y'all claim the higher moral ground, lol, contradicting the scriptures yet again, for it is written:

"But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." --1 Corinthians 8:12-13

--How will you defend your pork-love against the above?
 
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BobRyan

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Judaism = no bacon
Islam = no bacon

Was Noah a Jew or a Muslim in your POV?

Gen 7:Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. 2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth.

You do understand that eating bacon is not MANDATORY.

I am not arguing "mandatory" I am simply noting what the Bible says ... just the facts. Everyone has free will and can reject or accept as they please.

I am not in the least inclined to make anyone else do anything they do not wish to do so long as they are not engaging in some form of a crime against someone (which none of us here are doing).
 
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BobRyan

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Wait, have you lot removed Acts 10 from your canon altogether?

Acts 10 is a vision explained by Peter 3 times in the book of Acts and not once is the explanation of the form "hey we get to eat rat sandwiches!" -- it is always of the form "Hey - God wants us to evangelize gentiles".

You might wish to argue "well ok but what about all those Christians that want to read into this - that we are supposed to be eating rat sandwiches?" and my response is that "the details" point more in the direction of the Gospel and evangelism than to "rat sandwiches"
 
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Religiot

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How can anyone hear without “ears to hear”?
Truly, that is the question.

Truly, this is the answer: God predestined us, by His foreknowledge, and has empowered those who believed--before the world was--to be conformed to the image of His Son; for those He foreknew, He knows now and then: thus we who are His do sit in heavenly places with Him; and that, because God exists outside of time: thus, it was God Himself Who gave me ears to hear, for I am born of God, and in His mind and heart, before the world was.

--only His children can keep the faith, for He also gives them a new heart.
 
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Jipsah

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Acts 10 is a vision explained by Peter 3 times in the book of Acts and not once is the explanation of the form "hey we get to eat rat sandwiches!" -- it is always of the form "Hey - God wants us to evangelize gentiles".
And if it was All About The Gentiles, it was also about killing and eating them.

You might wish to argue "well ok but what about all those Christians that want to read into this - that we are supposed to be eating rat sandwiches?"
Can if you want to, I prefer shrimp.

and my response is that "the details" point more in the direction of the Gospel and evangelism than to "rat sandwiches"
My response is that you're still obviously ignoring what it *says*. Surprise surprise.[/QUOTE]
 
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Ceallaigh

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Well we have exegesis for that. As I said no one here is claiming to "interpret this text according to what an Adventist told me to think".

That part remains the same.

Imagine the Protestant Reformation having to deal with such claims where someone said "well that's just Martin Luther's view of justification" ignoring every detail in the Bible text given - anyone could say that. It is not "proof" of something being true.

Acts 17:11 the believers in the OT in Berea "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by Paul - were SO".

If all they did was "well hmm there is ONE Paul and there is MANY of my Jewish priests and scholars saying Paul is wrong - so Paul must be using his own interpretation" the result would have been very different than what we see in that text.

If you want to use the Bereans as an example, then why not go with their conclusions instead? It's not really plausible that being SDA does not mean ascribing to certain things taught by the SDA church, which are virtually exclusive to the SDA church.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Acts 10 is a vision explained by Peter 3 times in the book of Acts and not once is the explanation of the form "hey we get to eat rat sandwiches!" -- it is always of the form "Hey - God wants us to evangelize gentiles".

You might wish to argue "well ok but what about all those Christians that want to read into this - that we are supposed to be eating rat sandwiches?" and my response is that "the details" point more in the direction of the Gospel and evangelism than to "rat sandwiches"

Not that we are supposed to eat rat sandwiches, but rather that eating rat sandwiches is no longer a sin. That if Cornelius was serving gentile food in his gentile household, which is probable, it was alright for Peter to eat that food. It wasn't just God wanted Peter to evangelize gentiles, but also that it was permissible to go into their households and mingle with them and eat their food.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Ahhhhh.....a 'works' disciple?
And when MMXX asked:

You replied:

The way you responded implies that you believe we are capable of being obedient (OT belief). If that were true Jesus would not have needed to come to show us all how wrong we are.

Moreover Jesus wouldn't have needed to die on the cross.
 
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tripleseven

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Hi all

Sorry to go a bit off topic. This is an informative thread that i enjoy reading. However, if can I humbly request that you don't use the "sw*ne" word. Please just use pig or pork or hog etc. In my country, sw*ne is an extremely offensive word, on par with the "f" word, and it make me very uncomfortable to read that word in some of the posts.

Thank you for your understanding.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The SDAs apparently believe that the Council got it wrong.
No we just believe what the bible says in regards to what the council said. The council in Acts of the Apostles 15 did not give us a license to practice sin as some people want to interpret it. It was over the question, of is circumcision a requirement for salvation? (Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2). This is why Paul says latter after the council had finished to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. The interpretation of some in regards to Acts 15 makes Paul a hypocrite. Some say no law. Jesus says do not think I have come to abolish the law *Matthew 5:17-19 with Paul agreeing with Jesus as shown above. Who do we believe? I know who I believe according to the scriptures and it is not you dear friend (Romans 3:4).
 
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Hi all

Sorry to go a bit off topic. This is an informative thread that i enjoy reading. However, if can I humbly request that you don't use the "sw*ne" word. Please just use pig or pork or hog etc. In my country, sw*ne is an extremely offensive word, on par with the "f" word, and it make me very uncomfortable to read that word in some of the posts.

Thank you for your understanding.

Hi tripleseven and welcome to CF :)

It is hard to get around talking about swine in a discussion about clean and unclean foods when it is written in the scriptures. I will try and be mindful though or perhaps you can simply interpret the word how it is meant to be interpreted in the biblical context?

Swine is written all through the bible....

Leviticus 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he chews not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divides the hoof, yet chews not the cud, it is unclean to you: you shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.

Proverbs 11:22 As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.

Isaiah 65:4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

Isaiah 66:3 He that kills an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrifices a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offers an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burns incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yes, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations.

Isaiah 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the middle, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, said the LORD.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast you your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matthew 8:30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.

Matthew 8:31 So the devils sought him, saying, If you cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

Matthew 8:32 And he said to them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

Mark 5:11 Now there was there near to the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

Mark 5:12-14 And all the devils sought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And immediately Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

Mark 5:16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.

Luke 8:32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they sought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.

Luke 8:33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

Luke 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

Luke 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave to him.

................

God bless
 
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