Why Am I Eating a Pork Chop?

[LoveGodsWord]

Yeah but what about bacon? Man I love bacon!!

Indeed and so do all those who reject God's Word according to Isaiah 66:17 just prior to the second coming of Jesus

 

[BNR32FAN]

Later Bible versions get away from what Paul actually said, with "created to be received".

1 Tim 4:3
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
KJV

Some think that verse 5 cancels the meaning of that "meats, which God hath created to be received" clause. It's does not. There's a clean meat list and then there's an unclean meat list in Deut.14 that is per God's creation. Eating the clean will help maintain your flesh body, eating the unclean will work against good health. Prayer over eating a vulture carcase is still not going to make it healthy to eat.

People probably think that about verse 5 because it specifically states “For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Your exegesis is contradicting verse 5. Your adding stipulations to verse 4 that contradict verse 5. Nowhere in the scriptures are Gentiles ever commanded to obey they Jewish dietary laws my friend.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not at all dear friend. You have only been provided scripture. Yet it seems you do not believe them.

Can you give an example? What scriptures are you referring to that I have been provided?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well isn’t that exactly what Paul said in verse 5?

“by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, who forbid marriage
“by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 5.For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Another example here. Read through the thread for many more. The answer is in the very scripture you try and quote here against the clean and unclean dietary laws. There is nothing in these scriptures that say Gods dietary laws have been abolished. You seemed to have missed this...

1 Timothy 4:3-5 [3], Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving OF THEM THAT BELIEVE AND KNOW THE TRUTH. [4], For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: [5], FOR IT IS SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD AND PRAYER.

This scripture links to...

John 17:17 SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THE TRUTH THY WORD IS TRUTH...

So it is through the Word of God that we are told in 1 Timothy 4:3-5 that all food created by God is to be received in thanks giving to those who know the truth for it is sanctified by the Word of God. That is, God has told us what foods are clean to eat and unclean to eat through the Word of God! (see Leviticus 11:1-47 and Deuteronomy 14:1-29 where God tells us what foods he has created to be received with thanks giving and those that are not to be eaten).

Hope this helps

 

[BNR32FAN]

Indeed and so do all those who reject God's Word according to Isaiah 66:17 just prior to the second coming of Jesus

oh your referring to the Gentiles who will gather the Jews (who were seeking to be justified by the law) and bring them back to repentance? I’m confident they will bring the SDA back along with the Jews seeing that they’re both stumbling over the same stumbling block.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I did, with Paul pointing to meats that God "created to be received". Many just pass over that condition and instead say it's healthy to eat any old thing. And apparently you just passed over that conditional clause in verse 4 also.

I think you have interpreted the condition to be much more narrow than intended because you think we must abide by food laws in the New Covenant.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Indeed and so do all those who reject God's Word according to Isaiah 66:17 just prior to the second coming of Jesus

Don’t you think it’s strange that it’s the Gentiles who are eating swine who will bring the Jews who don’t eat swine back to repentance?

 

[The Liturgist]

No, the Jews were in every country. The country did not practice Judaism.

That is untrue. The official religion of Ethiopia and of the Imperial household, the Solomonic Dynasty, which the Ethiopian historical epic Kebra Negast states was descended from King Solomon and Queen Kandake (Candace); their son, Prince Solomon, became the first Jewish Emperor of Ethiopia. This is why the Ethiopian Old Testament is one of the oldest translations in the world and preserves books lost in Hebrew except in fragments, or bits partially recovered at the Dead Sea Scrolls. And the Ethiopian Jews, the Beta Israel, worship in a manner very similar to Ethiopian Christians; most fled to Israel after Emperor Haile Selassie was strangled by the evil Derg communist regime.

Also the Old Testament canon of the Beta Israel is the same as the Old Testament canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox, including books like 1 Enoch, which we know used to be widely used among the Jews, since Jude quotes it in his Epistle. The Pharisees and their successors the Rabbis excluded books like 1 Enoch, Judith and Tobit from the canon.

Some Christians also reject them, but for different reasons which are doctrinally sound. However, I accept all of them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Don't be silly. One can buy all sorts of unhealthy foods at the market, and no one limits purchases in ignorance.

In our country regulations around food safety are pretty tight.

This is driven by evidence based assessments.

Pork has never been deemed unsafe...

 

[The Liturgist]

Kosher meat is clean meats that have been treated to have the blood removed (see here). Acts 15 tells Gentiles not to eat meat with the blood in it this is from the old testament dietary laws (scripture already provided earlier from Deuteronomy).

No it doesn’t. It says not to eat blood. But it clearly is no longer in effect.

 

[The Liturgist]

Here we go with EGW again. You and a few others like to talk about this. Is it because you have no scripture to support your view?

We have scripture, we show you the scripture, and you reject it on dubious grounds. And Ellen White is the elephant in the room, because if she had not written about this, we would not be having this discussion.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Later Bible versions get away from what Paul actually said, with "created to be received".

1 Tim 4:3
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
KJV

Some think that verse 5 cancels the meaning of that "meats, which God hath created to be received" clause. It's does not. There's a clean meat list and then there's an unclean meat list in Deut.14 that is per God's creation. Eating the clean will help maintain your flesh body, eating the unclean will work against good health. Prayer over eating a vulture carcase is still not going to make it healthy to eat.

The wording in the Greek can be understood two ways...

"Created to be received with thanks" can refer to all foods not just supposed 'clean' foods.

Rom 14:20
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean...

 

[BNR32FAN]

Another example here. Read through the thread. The answer is in the very scripture you try and quote here against the clean and unclean dietary laws. There is nothing in these scriptures that say Gods dietary laws have been abolished.

1 Timothy 4:3-5 [3], Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving OF THEM THAT BELIEVE AND KNOW THE TRUTH. [4], For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: [5], FOR IT IS SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD AND PRAYER.

This scripture links to...

John 17:17 SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THE TRUTH THY WORD IS TRUTH...

So it is through the Word of God that we are told in 1 Timothy 4:3-5 that all food created by God is to be received in thanks giving to those who know the truth for it is sanctified by the Word of God. That is, God has told us what foods are clean to eat and unclean to eat through the Word of God! (see Leviticus 11:1-47 and Deuteronomy 14:1-29 where God tells us what foods he has created to be received with thanks giving and those that are not to be eaten).

Hope this helps

No that’s not what it says at all. It says that those who are paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons will ADVOCATE ABSTAINING FROM FOODS GOD HAS CREATED TO BE RECEIVED BY THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND KNOW THE TRUTH.

FOR EVERYTHING CREATED BY GOD IS GOOD AND NOTHING IS TO BE REJECTED IF IT IS RECEIVED WITH GRATITUDE.

So are you telling me to abstain from food which God has created to be received? Are you telling me that I must reject something even if I receive it with gratitude? Because I always receive it with gratitude.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The wording in the Greek can be understood two ways...

"Created to be received with thanks" can refer to all foods not just supposed 'clean' foods.

Rom 14:20
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean...

In the context of verse five it has to include all foods everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude. If the dietary laws were still in affect for Gentiles then obviously some foods would have to be rejected. Verse five clearly says that nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

 

[Servus]

Kosher meat is clean meats that have been treated to have the blood removed (see here). Acts 15 tells Gentiles not to eat meat with the blood in it this is from the old testament dietary laws (scripture already provided earlier from Deuteronomy).

According to Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers it means, From blood.—As distinguished from the preceding rule, this forbade the separate use of blood, as with flour and vegetables, or in the black-puddings of modern cookery, as an article of food. Dishes so prepared were common in the cuisine both of Greeks and Romans, and here also, therefore, the restriction would have involved a frequent withdrawal from social life, or a conspicuous singularity.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary says, They were counselled to abstain from things strangled, and from eating blood; this was forbidden by the law of Moses, and also here, from reverence to the blood of the sacrifices, which being then still offered, it would needlessly grieve the Jewish converts, and further prejudice the unconverted Jews. But as the reason has long ceased, we are left free in this, as in the like matters. Let converts be warned to avoid all appearances of the evils which they formerly practised, or are likely to be tempted to; and caution them to use Christian liberty with moderation and prudence.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible says, And from blood - The eating of blood was strictly forbidden to the Jews. The reason of this was that it contained the life, Leviticus 17:11, Leviticus 17:14. See notes on Romans 3:25. The use of blood was common among the Gentiles. They drank it often at their sacrifices, and in making covenants or compacts. To separate the Jews from them in this respect was one design of the prohibition. See Spencer, De Ley Hebrae., p. 144, 145, 169, 235, 377, 381, 594, edit. 1732. See also this whole passage examined at length in Spencer, p. 588-626. The primary reason of the prohibition was, that it was thus used in the feasts and compacts of idolaters. That blood was thus drank by the pagans, particularly by the Sabians, in their sacrifices, is fully proved by Spencer, De Leg., p. 377-380 But the prohibition specifies a higher reason, that the life is in the blood, and that therefore it should not be eaten. On this opinion see the notes on Romans 3:25. This reason existed before any ceremonial law; it is founded in the nature of things; it has no particular reference to any custom of the Jews; and it is as forcible in any other circumstances as in theirs. It was proper, therefore, to forbid it to the early Christian converts; and for the same reason, its use should be abstained from everywhere. It adds to the force of these remarks when we remember that the same principle was settled before the laws of Moses were given, and that God regarded the fact that the life was in the blood as of so much importance as to make the shedding of it worthy of death, Genesis 9:4-6. It is supposed, therefore, that this law is still obligatory. Perhaps, also, there is no food more unwholesome than blood; and it is a further circumstance of some moment that all people naturally revolt from it as an article of food.

Matthew Poole's Commentary says, And from blood; they were also much more to abstain from blood, when shed out of the body of any slain creature, Leviticus 3:17 Deu 12:23. That blood was forbidden might be to teach them meekness, and to abstain from revenge. It is certain, that such nations as feed on blood are most barbarous and cruel. It is also probable, that these being included in the precepts which they called, The precepts of Adam, or Noah, and to which all the proselytes of the gate were obliged to yield obedience, the apostle would have the observance of them to be continued upon them that came from amongst them over unto Christianity. For though all these ceremonies were dead, (with Christ), yet they were not then deadly, and did wait a time for their more decent burial. If any wonder that the council did not treat of and write about greater matters; as of worshipping God the Father, through the Son; of denying of ourselves, and taking up the cross; he ought to consider, that the question they met upon was about other matters, and that those great things were never in question amongst such as feared God.

 

[Servus]

Kosher meat is clean meats that have been treated to have the blood removed (see here). Acts 15 tells Gentiles not to eat meat with the blood in it this is from the old testament dietary laws (scripture already provided earlier from Deuteronomy).

You should have just said "Kosher meat is clean meats that have been treated to have the blood removed" from the start rather than play around.

 

[Servus]

You have been shown from the scriptures that the dietary laws are not a denomination doctrine it is a bible doctrine from God's Word and God's Word is for all those who believe and follow them (John 10:26-27).

No I've been shown the SDA interpretation of scripture, which virtually all the rest of Christianity doesn't follow.

"for all those who believe and follow them (John 10:26-27)" suggests to me that you're saying only SDA are the sheep who follow the commandments of Jesus.

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

So I better become a Seventh Day Adventist if I want to be saved, Right? Because that's what it sounds like you're implying.

First I'm not on the narrow path, and now this.

 

[Strong in Him]

Sure we do. That includes both old and new testament scriptures. Are you disagreeing with Jesus in Matthew 4:4 who is quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3?

So explain to me then how you can say we obey every word that comes from the mouth of God, but we don't have to obey all the laws because we are not under the Old covenant?

I'm not disagreeing with Jesus; I'm saying that if certain words are not addressed to us, they are not meant to be kept by us.
Just as Paul's words to Timothy "stop drinking water but drink wine because of your frequent illnesses", do not mean that we all need to start drinking alcohol or have an excuse to drink more.
A word/passage in Scripture can easily be inspired by God - his word for those people in that situation - without it being for all believers.

 

[Servus]

At this point I feel like going out and buying 5 lbs of pork chops to eat.

 

[Strong in Him]

Are you saying to love God was not in the Torah???

Jesus' command was "to love as I have loved you". How did he show us God's love? By going to the cross; laying down his life for sinners. Of course God's love was in the Torah - but people did not love their enemies then; they took revenge, an eye for an eye, or asked God to avenge them. We cannot love with God's pure, Agape love unless we have first received that love from him.

So yes, Jews know the Torah which says to love God - but they cannot love as Jesus loved if they don't believe in him and haven't known, or received, that love for themselves.