Who Doesn't Go To Hell?

[Mark Quayle]

I say God is a loving heavenly Father. We are his children. There is a reason for this analogy. We have human relationships that mirror what the Father is. We are of incredibly valuable in his sight. He loves us so much and longs for a restored relationship. In fact, he gave his only begotten to buy us back by paying our sin debt. (the death penalty) All of humankind was redeemed by Christ. The plan of redemption will be fulfilled when all of creation is restored. (Matthew 19:28; Acts 3:21; Romans 8:20-21; Romans 5:10; Romans 11:36; Isaiah 65:17; Revelation 21:5; Malachi 3:2)

What do you say?

God is THE loving heavenly Father. We are his children. We are incredibly valuable in his sight, not worthy in and of ourselves, but as what he made us for --his use for us. Our self-esteem must come from HIM, not from ...well, from self-esteem. Each one of us is the only one. He has no substitutes --the human race is not made of individuals equally esteemed by God.

I need not think well of myself, and come up with "Well, he made me in his image so I am fabulous." --no, what I need is to think well of God, and his power and purpose.

The plan of redemption is fulfilled when we see him as he is, and the sons of God are revealed.

We are not in and of ourselves complete beings. We are made to be complete only on that day. Those ex-human despairing wraiths from whom he has withdrawn all graces and restraints will never be complete beings.

 

[Saint Steven]

Every Nation (Every Soul) From the album Every Nation by Lindy Conant & The Circuit Riders
(LiveLyric™ videos are a new hybrid of Live worship video and lyric video formats, created by RMA)

 

[Saint Steven]

God is THE loving heavenly Father. We are his children. We are incredibly valuable in his sight, not worthy in and of ourselves, but as what he made us for --his use for us. Our self-esteem must come from HIM, not from ...well, from self-esteem. Each one of us is the only one. He has no substitutes --the human race is not made of individuals equally esteemed by God.

I need not think well of myself, and come up with "Well, he made me in his image so I am fabulous." --no, what I need is to think well of God, and his power and purpose.

The plan of redemption is fulfilled when we see him as he is, and the sons of God are revealed.

We are not in and of ourselves complete beings. We are made to be complete only on that day. Those ex-human despairing wraiths from whom he has withdrawn all graces and restraints will never be complete beings.

So, you see God's love as conditional? I thought grace was unconditional.

You see God's love is only extended to those who he finds useful for his needs? That seems rather self-serving. I don't think God is like that at all. IMHO

 

[Mark Quayle]

So, you see God's love as conditional? I thought grace was unconditional.

You see God's love is only extended to those who he finds useful for his needs? That seems rather self-serving. I don't think God is like that at all. IMHO

God's love is not conditional on our performance or worth, but on his use for us. Same with his grace.

Yes, it is self-serving. God does everything for his own sake. The fact he deigns to include us in his plan, and specially the fact that he deigns to exalt some of us into becoming his dwelling place, and to place his particular love on us, is icing on the cake. God owes us nothing.

 

[Saint Steven]

God's love is not conditional on our performance or worth, but on his use for us. Same with his grace.

Yes, it is self-serving. God does everything for his own sake. The fact he deigns to include us in his plan, and specially the fact that he deigns to exalt some of us into becoming his dwelling place, and to place his particular love on us, is icing on the cake. God owes us nothing.

This brand of thinking makes God a selfish monster. We wouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior from a toddler.

Amazing that God would be described this way. In a screeching tantrum of rage, tossing anyone that doesn't give him what he wants into a forever burning hell.

The angry volcano god.

 

[Uriah123]

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It is a terrible, awful tragedy that so many people end up in Hell simply because they didn't believe Christ's crucifixion is an adequate retribution for their sins; and also that God is fully agreeable to shredding the indictment He was compiling against them listing all the bad things they ever did, and/or they will ever do, in thought, word, and deed.

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ; not counting men's sins against them.

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory. Bear with me while I flesh this out a bit.

Rev 20:11-15 depicts an enormous courtroom scene-- sometimes referred to as the great white throne event --wherein books will be opened. The word is plural because there's a book being kept for each individual. Were a redeemed sinner's book to be opened, there would be no entries in so it would appear as if they have never been anything but 100% innocent. For example:

Let's say, hypothetically, that a redeemed Charles Manson is summoned to appear and a bailiff delivers his book to the Judge. Upon examining Charles' book, the Judge would have to acquit Mr. Manson because there would be no entries in his book for the Judge to charge him with.

Now of course many of us from back in the twentieth century know what a degenerate scum bag Charles was in life; but no matter. Were he redeemed, none of Charles' scuminess would be recorded in his book, viz: he would not be required to answer for the gruesome murder of Sharon Tate and her unborn child.

As outrageous, and as an intolerable miscarriage of justice as that may seem; it serves to give a pretty good idea of just how effective Christ's crucifixion is as an adequate retribution for people's sins.
_

If i owed you 10000 dollars would you consider it a sin if didn't pay you back? John 3:36 and John 3:16 agrees with you however. Listen Child, also read 1st Corinthians chapter 3

 

[Mark Quayle]

This brand of thinking makes God a selfish monster. We wouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior from a toddler.

Amazing that God would be described this way. In a screeching tantrum of rage, tossing anyone that doesn't give him what he wants into a forever burning hell.

The angry volcano god.

We have no right nor authority to tolerate or not tolerate God. He is no toddler. Be thankful he deals with us as if we were, though.

Your way of talking/ thinking keeps reminding me that you assume a human to be something in and of himself, worthy of respect from God. He is not.

 

[Saint Steven]

Your way of talking/ thinking keeps reminding me that you assume a human to be something in and of himself, worthy of respect from God. He is not.

Why did he create us and call us children if we are unworthy of the title?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why did he create us and call us children if we are unworthy of the title?

Grace

 

[Saint Steven]

Grace

That boils down to Universal Restoration. We were created for grace, not for damnation. Thank you.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why did he create us and call us children if we are unworthy of the title?

 

[CaspianSails]

Who does not go to hell, those redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb whose names are written in the Lambs book of Life who have washed their garments in His righteousness.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That boils down to Universal Restoration. We were created for grace, not for damnation. Thank you.

That is your extrapolation of what I said? Wow.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is your extrapolation of what I said? Wow.

Why not?
If the reason God created us was for grace, then damnation was not the plan.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why did he create us and call us children if we are unworthy of the title?

Mark Quayle said: ↑
Grace

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why not?
If the reason God created us was for grace, then damnation was not the plan.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why did he create us and call us children if we are unworthy of the title?

Mark Quayle said: ↑
Grace

You group all US together. God does not. He only has mercy on some, and that not of any worth on their part.

Damnation was not his reason to create, if that is what you mean. That much I agree with. His reason for creating has to do with the creation of a people for himself --the Bride of Christ. The damned is part of what it took to make that particular creation.

I really can't see why you have a problem with the Biblical doctrine of predestination.

 

[Saint Steven]

I really can't see why you have a problem with the Biblical doctrine of predestination.

My problem with it is what it means under Damnationism.

If God chose .001 percent of humankind for his purposes, then he damned 99.999 percent to do it. (countless billions)

It seems to me that there is plenty of room in the new Jerusalem for everyone. A very interesting project to sit down and figure it out. The footprint of the building would cover the United States. Some 2,000 miles wide and just as tall and wide. (a cube) The top of the building would be outside of our current atmosphere. Damnationism says it would be mostly empty. A ghost town.

 

[WebersHome]

.

I really can't see why you have a problem with the Biblical doctrine of predestination.

Most of the folks with whom I've attempted to dialogue about election and/or predestination refuse to take into account the element of foreknowledge, i.e. precognition; preferring instead to become difficult and jump to the conclusion that God arbitrarily pre-selects various individuals for salvation and discards the rest.

In a nutshell; God, by the use of his ability to scan the future, saw in advance who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. It was specifically the ones who will that He elected and predestined for salvation. In other words; His choices weren't arbitrary; as some have mistakenly assumed.

Most people I encounter have somehow got it in their heads that election and predestination are acts of favoritism when in reality election and predestination are most certainly not like that at all because the bible says: Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
_

 

[Mark Quayle]

.

Most of the folks with whom I've attempted to dialogue about election and/or predestination refuse to take into account the element of foreknowledge, i.e. precognition; preferring instead to become difficult and jump to the conclusion that God arbitrarily pre-selects various individuals for salvation and discards the rest.

In a nutshell; God, by the use of his ability to scan the future, saw in advance who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. It was specifically the ones who will that he elected and predestined for salvation. In other words; His choices weren't arbitrary; as some have mistakenly assumed.
_

edit: my bad. I jumped to conclusions about your notions concerning "arbitrary"

'Arbitrarily' pre-selects? Where do you get your strawmen from?

God knows the future --to our limited minds, to the common mind, "foreknowledge"-- because God CAUSES the future. It is not a playground in which he must follow the rules we play by.

God does not arbitrarily do anything, but everything for a particular purpose. The members of the flawless and beautiful Bride of Christ are not from a random pool of possibles. Each one is created to, in the end, fit that particular place for which it was prepared. God doesn't sort it all out and decide that since we have an excess of hair follicles we will make her with a unibrow. He leaves nothing up to chance. He causes everything to happen precisely as it happens, and we get to watch. I don't understand your complaint.

 

[Saint Steven]

.

Most of the folks with whom I've attempted to dialogue about election and/or predestination refuse to take into account the element of foreknowledge, i.e. precognition; preferring instead to become difficult and jump to the conclusion that God arbitrarily pre-selects various individuals for salvation and discards the rest.

In a nutshell; God, by the use of his ability to scan the future, saw in advance who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. It was specifically the ones who will that He elected and predestined for salvation. In other words; His choices weren't arbitrary; as some have mistakenly assumed.

Most people I encounter have somehow got it in their heads that election and predestination are acts of favoritism when in reality election and predestination are most certainly not like that at all because the bible says: Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
_

Damnationism loves to blame the victims for hell.

Foreknowledge does not prevent God from wooing humankind by his Spirit.

I believe that everyone will come to him. But each in turn.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

 

[WebersHome]

.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Conversely: for as all in Christ will be made alive, so all in Adam will be made dead.

The people summoned from the netherworld to face justice at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 will all be in Adam, and that's why they end up dead in the lake of brimstone.

In contrast, those in Christ (a.k.a. in him) have already satisfied justice by means of Christ's crucifixion so they won't be among the dead at the great white throne event, viz; those of us in Christ are in no danger whatsoever of undergoing execution in the brimstone. (John 5:24 & Rom 6:3-11)

FAQ: How do people get in Christ.

A: By means of a special, supernatural baptism. (1Cor 12:12-13)

FAQ: After those people depicted at Rev 20:11-15 are executed in the brimstone; won't they be brought back to undergo the supernatural baptism into Christ?

A: According to Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29, there is only one resurrection allotted per person. Seeing as how the dead will use up their one resurrection in order to stand trial at the great white throne event, they won't be coming back from the brimstone.

Ergo: The time to get in Christ (a.k.a. in him) is now, before passing on. Otherwise death will lock you in Adam and you'll be stuck there forever with no hope of escape.

FAQ: What does 1Cor 15:22 mean where it says: " Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him"

A: That alerts us to the fact that not everyone belongs to him. In point of fact, the expression "in Christ" refers to an exclusive fraternity of folk who've undergone the special, supernatural baptism spoken of by 1Cor 12:12-13.

It also alerts us to the fact that there's two resurrections: one for those who belong to him, and of course there's one for those who don't belong to him; which is viewed at Rev 20:11-15.
_

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Conversely: for as all in Christ will be made alive, so all in Adam will be made dead.

Surely, made dead to self, alive in Christ.

Otherwise death will lock you in Adam and you'll be stuck there forever with no hope of escape.

Like in Superman where the bad trio are imprisoned in a pane of glass flipping around the galaxy forever?

You might want scriptural support for that claim sir.

It also alerts us to the fact that there's two resurrections: one for those who belong to him, and of course there's one for those who don't belong to him; which is viewed at Rev 20:11-15.

Any shadow of doubt should be removed by the divine declaration in Rev 21:6 - Behold, I am making all things new. There's no 'fine print' exclusions there, only 'wash robes in Lamb's blood' as the sole condition of entry. That's the giant mikveh filled with God's presence that issues from the throne aka the Lake of Fire.